Airsoft LARP

evilrobotshane

Creating a new thread to keep the IAMC one on-topic.

I tried my hand once at rubber-sword LARPing at a demo event, and while the fantasy genre leaves me cold, running about outside fighting and yelling is great and to cut a short story shorter very soon I was playing airsoft. I'd love to see more story and character and all that in airsoft games, but the big problem is what's being discussed on the IAMC thread (although from the other angle) - getting hurt.

Instant death means pretty much no characterisation, with the exception of the extreme hardcore portraying an endless stream of vengeful brothers. But real injuries do screw people right the hell up, usually forever. Rubber sworders have multiple hit-points in each location, but that's crazy to keep track of and again makes you far too tough, and with full-auto it's hard to count how often you were hit.

So science fiction is probably the answer. I don't know why I hate healing spells but I'm fine with nanite injections, but there we go. A mate of mine who rubber swords a lot has been thinking about this and researching how it's done in places that do it, so I'll leave him to talk about that side of things.

When playing a medic, I've noticed that tying a bandage around an arm is more fun than touching for twenty seconds which is more fun than tapping with the muzzle of a gun. Therefore I assume that more complicated stuff would be more fun again.

A friend of mine used to tell me about large-scale training exercises they'd do when he was in the U.S. Army, and the impression I got is that everyone gets a few injury cards in their breast pocket. When your MILES gear says you're tagged you drop, and when you get extracted an officer running the thing will pull out your cards, choose one and tell you to act that, which might be cardiac arrest or might be sprained my pinky finger - just stuff to get the MASH side of the operation working on triage and treatment and all. Not suitable for making an airsoft game fun, but a good place to start.

I like the idea of three wound levels - bandage, hospital or dead. Each wound location could have its own damage track, so you get hit in the arm, a card gets drawn from a deck of three and either it's a flesh wound, it's a spurter or it's ripped right off. Helmets and plate carriers could reduce a wound by one level, I think.

To make the medic's job interesting, if appropriate for the game, everyone gets a red sticker and when they take a hit they can slap it on approximately where they got hit (or best guess). Then treat appropriately - bandage for light, bandage and apply some clever way of simulating an I.V. with sticky tape and cheap D.I.Y. supplies and then transport for heavy, pronounce death for dead.

The cheating argument seems like a non-issue to me - isn't "people will just take the opportunity to cheat" the argument for why paintball is better than airsoft? I don't see why someone would take a hit but then stack their deck. Maybe I'm being naive and new.

That's all I've got for now, sorry about the unstructured brain-dump but I'm tired.

Dr_Pepper

All that you have mentioned is how the medic system worked over at Phoenix Rising. What you want is MilSim my man. As commanders we had hit locations and different wounds to be suffered. Each had its own unique triage and were sometimes completely fatal.

Short version, get into MilSim.

Hivemind187

Dr_Pepper wrote: »

All that you have mentioned is how the medic system worked over at Phoenix Rising. What you want is MilSim my man. As commanders we had hit locations and different wounds to be suffered. Each had its own unique triage and were sometimes completely fatal.

Short version, get into MilSim.

He is.

You have played against him at RoE.

There has been a complex version of the medic system in the Roe system since it started, the thing is there simply hasnt been enough people present for us to use it.

Stonewolf

For those of you with no knowledge of role playing (LARP stands for Live Action Role Playing) what that means is that you are pretending to be a specific person who isn't you (eg. Pvt. Glass from Raleigh NC, a young idealistic rookie on his first tour who's out to put the world to rights the American way). This character is then dropped into a setting (Jebrovia is actually a good example) with some other characters and either talks to them (as Pvt Glass), shoots them or often both.

The problem with this is that when you bite the BB, Pvt. Glass has taken one in the head and isn't getting back up. Ever. No lives, no respawns, if you want back into play you'll need a whole new character. For obvious reasons this is the opposite of fun and while it's realistic, this is a game that we play to have fun.

The issue then is to make it so that Pvt. Glass is injured and can be brought back into the fight in some way that doesn't make forehead veins explode due to their suspension of disbelief being broken.

There are of course airsoft larps in the UK and how they do it is something I'll be looking into but for now I'd been thinking of how my rubber sword experience might apply.

Now, in rubber sword you have many hit points per location (I have a naturally tough character who wears chainmail and therefore clocks up 6 hits per location but there are characters who laugh at so little) and this doesn't work for airsoft. It's not that guns are so much more lethal than swords (swords are pretty lethal) but more that suspension of disbelief is easier with awesome swordfights than with turning someone into swiss cheese using a machinegun. Besides, autofire makes it mechanically unworkable anyway.

What is rather nice though is the fact that in larp if a character with 1 hp gets hit the location becomes useless, a second hit (bringing it to -1hp) makes it start bleeding, 10 minutes of bleeding means character death. Now, since we want to eliminate multi-hitpoints we just say locations are wounded or non-wounded and a wounded location is useless and bleeding. If that location is head or torso then you're going to be unconscious. The larp system I'm familiar with also makes you instantly die if all locations are at -hp but I think that's a bit mean when you can autofire the hell out of everything in sight (no instakill is a bit unrealistic I know, but again I'm going to cite the fun element).

That established we now need to figure out how becoming unwounded happens. In rubber sword you're generally playing a high fantasy setting so you yell for a cleric and they come cast a cure spell on you. This however is what evilrobotshane would call pervy and much as some games can do it (Shadowrun being an example) mostly I don't think it's what people attracted to airsoft are looking for. So instead you yell for a medic who comes over and ties a bandage on you, but annoyingly that's not a healing spell and making it function like one would make people angry. Therefore what it does do it stop and reset the bleed timer thus saving your sorry ass. You now have a stable but largely useless body location (still unconscious if that's head or torso) so I figure you get yourself somehow rearward to a medical station where <insert setting appropriate stuff here> happens and after spending 10 minutes convalescing you're good to go (I'm a fan of nanotech healbots personally but I guess a surgeon could cast a hea put your bits back in).

There would of course be purists who claim anyone can hold a tourniquet but "bleed time" is sort of a catch all term for "that artery is receding up into his pelvis and if we don't get him to a doc soon it's all over for him". The ability to pause someones bleed time if you concentrate totally on them is a nice mechanic (because it satisfies purists and encourages team play) but I draw the line at doing it to yourself (which discourages team play and reduces the urgency of recovering an injured teammate).

I guess that's longer and wafflier than evilrobotshanes but it's late and I'm tired. I'd like to put something together in a larp format for the Irish market (because I'm tired of traveling to the UK for my larp fix and rubber swords never gained any traction over here) but it's early days yet.

Spetzcong

I dunno, in terms of milsim respawns I'm all in favour of designated respawn times, where everyone who's been killed respawns i.e. reinforcements. So player X gets killed and has to wait an hour to reinforce, player B gets killed and gets to reinforce after only waiting 15 minutes because team A gets reinforcements at 09.30 hrs, if you understand my semi-nonsensical drivel.

As far as medics and treating wounds are concerned I think medics should carry a deck of injury cards, all detailing different injuries and treatment times, some are direct KIAs others require varying amounts of time spent in contact with the casualty, from 2 minutes to 15 minutes or whatever.

I think the random injuries and corresponding treatment times would add as much realism as you're going to get to milsim medic rules without getting pedantic and ruining the flow of the game, and the reinforcement regen rules would add an element of plausability to people coming back from the dead, rather than just turning up in dribs and drabs as their time in the safezone runs out.

Spetzcong

Plus with injury cards there'd be the opportunity to have one stating: Badly stubbed toe, walk it off soldier

bullets

Larping is not for me, but thats just my own personal preference.
I'd prefer to play airsoft without the roleplay element in it.
I like the guns to look real, like uniforms etc just not the pretending to be someone else other
that yourself aspect.

I much prefer going onto a skirmish site with me being me, Sure use tactics,
have a group leader making the decision etc, but none of this yes sir, no sir crap,
or pretending I'm somebody from a computer game, movie, or History book.

For mil sim, (Have never tried it but if I did.....) I would prefer to simulate an encounter/battle but not simulate "a character" be it fictitious or historical.

I have a love/hate relation ship when it comes to hobbies and interests
that would be considered by the average Joe as stereotypically "Nerdy"

With my other hobbies and interests I quite often have crossed paths with
Larpers, Role players, RPG gamers etc and often cringed.

I used to do classical fencing which is where you Learned swordplay in the manner
of how it was used in real life in Duel's etc. We fenced as ourselves with the goal of learning about fencing but not pretending to be anyone.
This was specifically different to Sports fencing (for points) and Larping Swordplay for Dramatic Characters roleplaying.
The Larpers/Roleplayers I've met, I found sometimes to be totally creepy,
they go to re-enact some battle, which is fair enough, but afterwards when they sit in their Van/Car and talk to their wives and kids drinking a cup of tea and eating a burger, they are still referring to themselves as their character! and they have their sons/daughters/wives call them "Lord" etc etc They dont switch off!

Roleplaying. Had buddies that did this, tried it and totally Cringed and said ULTRA nerdy. A games master sitting around a table with a rule book, and making up a story
as you go along........ Mmm not for me.

RPG dice-rollers........I HATE those dice rolling table top games.......Yet......I've
got about 4000 25mm Lord of the rings Models that I paint, and one of me hobbies
is making Model Castles/Ruins out of dental plaster which I love doing, yet
would never ever want to play the game. (Have not bought any more since
I started collecting Airsoft gear)

RPG Computer games. I've played LOTRO for nearly 2 years. Never got into it,
but its addictive. Again when I am playing, I know I am playing a computer game,
but there are people in the game who actually pretend to be their character when
talking and typing.....another thing that freaks me out.


~B

Puding

in love larping if it adds something ot the game, but im also strongly against making things over complicated just because you can, the pr system for commanders was great just the right level of complexity that mad you focus on the importance of chain of command and the problems when this went wrong.

To me there is no point making an ultra hard core realistic medic system where every one has a card that copys the real world casualty handling, when you can still hide behind a bush and not get hit, a 5mm wooden fence protects you against grenades and hits for example.

TO me its all about balance, event in the most indeapth hard core milsim they keep the game moving that is why for the grunt universally play but the your hit your out system. KISS keep it simple stupid.

This is nit really a new idea, wound systems are being used around the world with different amount of success.

evilrobotshane

One thing that I really like about the Jebrovia game that I have yet to really encounter elsewhere (yep, haven't been to Phoenix Rising or anything like that yet; come on, some money) is the extended bleed period (presumably modeled on the 'platinum ten'). I got the medic role at the Pilot Down game at Midlands Airsoft Club last week (freaking excellent, by the way) and found that their one-minute bleed-out meant the tactics of it were pretty much a straight choice between leaving the guy to die and respawn, or diving out there into the line of fire of whoever took him down and hoping I didn't get tagged too. In Jebrovia, a man down becomes a tactical objective, and it's worth the team's while to move in, secure the area and let the medic do his work, because you have the time to do it.

Also regarding time for treatment, the rubber sword taster I played used some beta rules with power points for spells, and to regenerate points you had to sit and "meditate" for one minute per point. Sitting watching the clock isn't fun, I swiftly learned. A task to be performed is; bandages are good, a big box of out-of-date I.V. bags would be better! I'd want tasks that take approximately the appropriate amount of time to complete, rather than laying a hand on the casualty and counting. It also provides a reason to own a medic pouch, as it would provide a reason to wear a plate carrier.

Lordhogo

Puding is right if you over complicate the medic system it will really just make the game less fun for everyone playing. If you do make some ideas for medics or cards it has to be simple.

Hivemind187

A few thoughts on the subject.

Airsoft and LARP (especially the Lorien Trust/rubber sword type) are very different beasts by nature of their mechanics. As Stonewolf pointed out the virtue of autofire makes the "hit point" system unviable. There is also a difference in mindset.

From running RoE we have found that imbuing single individuals with a specific character is not especially realistic. In stead we allotted two command officers to each faction and pretty much left the rest of the organisation up to the players. Should that commander get snatched (note: not killed - they simply respawn as a reinforcement) they lose access to the command forums etc and are ineligible for "in-theatre" command updates, hobbling that faction until such time as they can be liberated. We've been hoping that certain players would get enough experience so that when the numbers were high enough they would easily fall into command positions at the rear of their own lines directing units of live airsofters in and out of mission objectives on a topographical battle map (while under the threat of getting knackered or captured by roving SpecFor teams).

The system provides for complicated medic situations. A player who is wounded is carrying a card which is handed over to the medic when he gets to the striken soldier. This card can read anything from "minor flesh wound. One bandage right arm" to "massive torso trauma. Chest, Right Arm, Left arm, Right Leg - One bandage each" to the one no one wants to hear "Massive bloodloss. KIA". All the "healing" must be done during the "bleed time" of ten minutes otherwise the patient snuffs it. In cases of short time, short supplies and large casualties this is intended to force a medic to triage the wounded.

This is in part borrowed from my own LARP experiences. But it is heavily modified. In, for example, LT LARP "healers" carry a number of healing cards per day which they can use to revive fallen players. The system works by tearing a healing card and then "laying on hands" for a certain amount of time (5 minutes I think). It sounds very fanciful but the length of time required is quite deliberate in that it keeps both the healer and the player beiing healed out of the thick of things for an extended period of time thus reducing that groups over all man power and potentially allowing other players to "bleed out".

In airsoft it's a little more difficult. Most LARPers are long time role-playing veterans who have come from a table-top or warhammer background. Most airsoft milsimmers are coming from a skirmishing background where time-outs etc are not really used and instant re-spawn is the order of the day. The LARPers will often respond well to the likes of time outs etc but the average airsofter (and this is not a criticisim) is having to learn a new trick to do so (in my experience). Its also a lot harder to marshal something that relies on time so reducing the time keeping to "bleed time" only is a much simpler way of doing things.

This also ignores the fact that most large scale LARP events include a kind of buffer for players getting jobbed which prevents their character from dying outright. Big magical spell, special charm or whatever just wont sit well with the airsoft mindset which tends towards modernity and realism rather than the elves and pixies stuff.

The problem though, with any complex system like this is that you are relying on two things. 1) The numbers to make it a worthwhile experience. Ireland isnt exactly bursting at the seams with dedicated milsim junkies. 2) The hojnor system (which, in fairness from what I've seen, is pretty much the golden rule amongst most milsimmers - thankfully!).

In order for large scale airsoft milsims - with or without LARP style components - to appear we require numbers. I think we sometimes forget that Airsofts has only been officially with us since August of 2006 - October if you count it from the first official skirmish. We've come a huge distance and collected hundreds of players but for every one milsim fanatic there is a dozen casual skirmishers (no less airsoft junkies just out for something different). If you put together a game to attract as many people as possible and make it too complex with a lot of imagination required (often the case with LARP) you can lose people by making them uncomfortable or simply trying to do something thats over their heads.

I'd say we are looking at another two to three years before we have sufficient numbers to see anything larger than one or two day events with simplified rules in Ireland. We currently havent the infrastructure, the resources, the players, the experience and most importantly our laws are too restrictive to really make a go of it at the same level as Berget or PR3. Mores the pity becausse I would personally love to put something together on that scale.

Hivemind187

evilrobotshane wrote: »

a big box of out-of-date I.V. bags would be better! I'd want tasks that take approximately the appropriate amount of time to complete, rather than laying a hand on the casualty and counting. It also provides a reason to own a medic pouch, as it would provide a reason to wear a plate carrier.

Now thats a hell of an idea mate. could you drop me a pm with what you think should be in a basic airsoft medics kit?

It might make for a bit more interest and complexity in the games, particularly rescue missions if its more complicated than simply bandages when you find your man down.

[--SC(+)PE--]

Why dont we all play medieval Airsoft
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOK8B6w_CzY&feature=related

[--SC(+)PE--]

... because its a blank white square?

Pffft some imagination you have

Hivemind187

[--SC(+)PE--] wrote: »

Pffft some imagination you have

git

Still, its a giant excuse to get ratted in a silly costume. Great fun

bullets

Hivemind187 wrote: »

git

Still, its a giant excuse to get ratted in a silly costume. Great fun

In Airsoft they call them Loadouts!!
(Sorry I could not resist)

~B

TheDoc

I'm all for more larp play in games, and I think it will gradually find its way in. It is only natural and proggressive, that the people that go to events abroad, bring back positive and negative stories,situations and game rules/styles.

PR3 had a fantastic medic system, that made your medics an important asset, and when an officer got hit, it caused panic, it caused mistakes, and on the other scale, it brought tactics and it brought coolheads, different people react to different situations.

The Medics on our side won the game for us, when officers and players went down, medics sorted it out asap, which I believe the opposite side did not. We had forward MASH points, where wounded where evac'd to that location.

Now obviously thats is grand scale. But theres no harm in introducing some small elements to the fray. There is no denying that coming back here to play games from abroad is overwhelmingly disappointing. But I quickly remember airsoft is going on alot longer in other countries than here, and we need just natural progression.

An event like the Jebrovian Conflict, has the means, resources and organisers to be a huge hit, but piss poor numbers has dampened the whole experience for me personally. But it has the opportunity to be a little miniture Berget. I had planned to literally just play RoE and milsims, but that has not turned out the case.

I've decided that skirmishing is no longer for me, decided that along time ago, but Berget re-inforced that. But then I find there is a seriously gaping hole in my play schedule. There is not enough to milsim things to keep me going weekly, which is a shame

LARP is something I'd support coming into airsoft. From new ways in irish gaming for medics to work, to people playing out characters be it commanders or civilians and the likes, to just simply how you go about your role as grunt.

I think a new technique and rule set for "hits" is needed. And who knows we could be pioneers for it, but I'm sorry, airsoft tries to get the most realistic scenarios as possible, played in a safe controlled enviroment.

As current, if I get shot in the finger I have to respawn. Realisticly I would still be 80-90% combat effective.

If I get hit on the corner of my cap, or the trail of my coat, I take a hit, where as its not actually striking my body.

Gun hits are gun hits, although the amount of sites that count your gun being shot as you being shot is outrageous.

I guess personally I just want more now from my airsofting experience. Shooting people is no longer enough, I just want wacky experiences and something unique.

Like for example the best part of berget for me really was operating our checkpoint and checkpoint at night, yes huge fire fights, but intense larp action, that had you getting genuinely nervous, that a truck,jeep or car could have a bomb, or the so called civilians might be rebels and open fire, it just adds to it.

Its obviously something only for milsim, because by rule of thumb, milsimmers are pro dominantly honest,honourable skillful players, that will expand themselves to obscure scenarios and the likes.

Its an interesting topic, I do think natural progression will be needed, as there is really only 1-2 sites in the country actually capable of holding a milsim, and there is only 2-3 site owners..and one company, who actually know how to run a milsim effectively and properly.

As I always say, Milsim is Airsoft, skirmishing is some sort of bastard child that evolved for casual players or people who just liked fast paced games ( which is totally fine). but part of Milsim is roleplaying, and added realism and it should be the pinnacle for airsofters, and the pinnacle of airsoft full stop.

The reason PR events or Berget are the best events in Europe/World is not because of the sites they run on, its because of the scale and wuality of player, which is attracted by the fact, they are milsim events. Even Berget is not a milsim event strictly, but you didnt see hicaps....


MAC is a top site for milsim, they are jsut milsimmers, and they have great intertwining game scenarios and Stone.cold does a seriously good job of running top games everytime we visit and we love it.

The Jebrovian conflict has the resources, the intellegent story writing and the dedication behind it to become THE top milsim act every second week, all it need is numbers to make it the top event to attend every second week.

HRTA milsims are always great fun to play. The best milsim experience I had was probably the rules of engagement one run with a handful of hawks trying to capture terrorist cell leaders, in a town populated with double if not triple our numbers. There was a great moment where I was captured, and a trade was organised between town leaders and the special forces team, a prisoner exchange, as it was being complete, there was a double cross and the terrorist cell inflicted heavy casualties. This wasnt something the stie owner planned, he jsut gave the tools and rules, that should players be witty enough ( which they were) they could do something like this.

At the end of the day it is about the developement and cleverness of players to come up with out standing gameplay mechanics. The site owners and marshalls hand you the rules and the site to play, and its up to you to manipulate and develop the game that it allows.

hrta

TheDoc wrote: »

Its obviously something only for milsim, because by rule of thumb, milsimmers are pro dominantly honest,honourable skillful players, that will expand themselves to obscure scenarios and the likes.


There was a great moment where I was captured, and a trade was organised between town leaders and the special forces team, a prisoner exchange, as it was being complete, there was a double cross and the terrorist cell inflicted heavy casualties. This wasnt something the stie owner planned, he jsut gave the tools and rules, that should players be witty enough ( which they were) they could do something like this.

At the end of the day it is about the developement and cleverness of players to come up with out standing gameplay mechanics. The site owners and marshalls hand you the rules and the site to play, and its up to you to manipulate and develop the game that it allows.

nail on the head.

hrta

And as i always say, the site is there for any one or team, to run there own milsim game.

evilrobotshane

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Now thats a hell of an idea mate. could you drop me a pm with what you think should be in a basic airsoft medics kit?

I was typing up a PM, but hey, it might as well go up here. Ideas welcome!

I would say the biggies would be bandages and I.V. kit, and possibly tourniquets if you had a rule for those. Anything else normal that I can think of off the top of my head (and by looking in my own kit) is for CPR or splinting or shoving into breathing passages or cutting off peoples' expensive clothes. I'll have to read up on gunshot wounds again but in general short-term you're worried about blood loss, which means plugging the hole and replacing what's already been lost. The other thing that springs to mind is the ol' sucking chest wound needle decompression thing a la Three Kings, but let's ignore that for now. Oh, and maybe oxygen (less blood in system means it's more important that each remaining bit carry as much as possible), although I doubt people carry bottles into combat.

Also, although I've worked with some guys who were also tactical medics for the local SWAT team, I never actually talked kit with them so I don't know what they carry - this is guesswork.

Plugging a hole is done with a bandage for our purposes, but to make it a bit more intricate I'd go for some padding as well, gauze and lint on the wound held tight with an elasticated bandage. Chopped up t-shirt would be fine for the padding, Ace style bandages can be procured cheap enough and are hard-wearing and less prone to snagging and picking up twigs and crap than other, correcter elasticated bandages (so therefore significantly more reusable) - although they shouldn't be applied too tightly in this situation.

I.V. bags are medication (usually a saline solution but sometimes dextrose or whatever the hell lactated Ringer's solution is) and hence have a use-by date after which they're discarded. I don't know what the chances of getting hold of these are, maybe they're supposed to be incinerated or something, but they're not harmful (taste terrible though). They're extremely robust though, you can punt them about the place and fling them full-force at somebody standing next to you and they'll bounce, so these are reusable once they don't get spiked. The other components are the line, which could probably have the spike removed but still require all the motions of setting up and leave the whole system reusable, and the catheter, which will require some ingenuity. In reality this is a hollow needle with a tight-fitting teflon catheter over its shaft, so the needle makes the hole and then is retracted, leaving the catheter in place. To simulate it I'd suggest something flat with an extendable central bit - if you can imagine a Stanley knife, but much smaller and made out of soft plastic, so the motion would be holding it on its side with your thumb and outermost three fingers, and sliding the knob forward with your index finger. If you did that against the forearm, then taped the lot in place, that's not a bad approximation at all. The line is hooked up to that. A rummage in a DIY shop might turn up something suitable.

They're making self-application tourniquets now that you can put on yourself with one hand and crank them down. Your typical velcro red-or-blue-team airsoft armband would be perfect there - easily stored, easily applied and no real danger of being too tight.

Syringes with no needle, maybe pre-loaded with a liquid for morphine or whatever. I.V. lines these days are moving toward needle-less medication ports anyway, so you should be able to shove it into the port, inject the water, and it'll run out onto the guy's arm and be cold and wet and tickly because war is hell. Maybe he's allowed to talk once he's doped up, for example, but beforehand his silence is simulating the undashing screaming and wanting mum.

If stretchers are being used, oxygen would probably be transported on that. Simulating the fiddly aspects of the regulator would be difficult without a real one and not very interesting, so apart from a fizzy drink bottle painted green (or whatever colour it is here, black maybe?) it's just a mask and tube, which come packaged together and are probably cheap and definitely reusable, although you'd want to clean them between faces. Some varieties might restrict breathing a little so that's something to watch out for.

With all that, I think you'd have a fairly decent gamey simulation. It'd certainly make the guy playing the medic feel like a bad-ass, and it's something that you can get good at and something that you can not know how to do at all. None of it involves dicking with the casualty's gear beyond exposing a forearm, and I love anything that makes real-world fancy bits useful, like drag handles, armour plates, those quick-release vests, medic pouches and so on.

ED E

Its all casualsofting for me.

Jimkil

Not to rain on you over complicated padre but I for one just want o play.
So a very simple rolling mission to get things up and running you can build more completed scenarios as the community grows.
3 prisoners are held in a building, of course they have being tortured.
Different injuries can be inflected upon them. Level of injury to be decided on the day
i.e.: 1 walking 1 steacher 1 with fried balls.
Holding force set up defence.
Rescuers to kill everyone and treat prisoners wile defending the building
Rescuers to evac prisoners to LZ
How easy is that? Can be played on any site, a nice mid week game.
Let’s round up 20 gamers and go for it.

Hivemind187

evilrobotshane wrote: »

I was typing up a PM, but hey, it might as well go up here. Ideas welcome!

I would say the biggies would be bandages and I.V. kit, and possibly tourniquets if you had a rule for those. Anything else normal that I can think of off the top of my head (and by looking in my own kit) is for CPR or splinting or shoving into breathing passages or cutting off peoples' expensive clothes. I'll have to read up on gunshot wounds again but in general short-term you're worried about blood loss, which means plugging the hole and replacing what's already been lost. The other thing that springs to mind is the ol' sucking chest wound needle decompression thing a la Three Kings, but let's ignore that for now. Oh, and maybe oxygen (less blood in system means it's more important that each remaining bit carry as much as possible), although I doubt people carry bottles into combat.

Also, although I've worked with some guys who were also tactical medics for the local SWAT team, I never actually talked kit with them so I don't know what they carry - this is guesswork.

Plugging a hole is done with a bandage for our purposes, but to make it a bit more intricate I'd go for some padding as well, gauze and lint on the wound held tight with an elasticated bandage. Chopped up t-shirt would be fine for the padding, Ace style bandages can be procured cheap enough and are hard-wearing and less prone to snagging and picking up twigs and crap than other, correcter elasticated bandages (so therefore significantly more reusable) - although they shouldn't be applied too tightly in this situation.

I.V. bags are medication (usually a saline solution but sometimes dextrose or whatever the hell lactated Ringer's solution is) and hence have a use-by date after which they're discarded. I don't know what the chances of getting hold of these are, maybe they're supposed to be incinerated or something, but they're not harmful (taste terrible though). They're extremely robust though, you can punt them about the place and fling them full-force at somebody standing next to you and they'll bounce, so these are reusable once they don't get spiked. The other components are the line, which could probably have the spike removed but still require all the motions of setting up and leave the whole system reusable, and the catheter, which will require some ingenuity. In reality this is a hollow needle with a tight-fitting teflon catheter over its shaft, so the needle makes the hole and then is retracted, leaving the catheter in place. To simulate it I'd suggest something flat with an extendable central bit - if you can imagine a Stanley knife, but much smaller and made out of soft plastic, so the motion would be holding it on its side with your thumb and outermost three fingers, and sliding the knob forward with your index finger. If you did that against the forearm, then taped the lot in place, that's not a bad approximation at all. The line is hooked up to that. A rummage in a DIY shop might turn up something suitable.

They're making self-application tourniquets now that you can put on yourself with one hand and crank them down. Your typical velcro red-or-blue-team airsoft armband would be perfect there - easily stored, easily applied and no real danger of being too tight.

Syringes with no needle, maybe pre-loaded with a liquid for morphine or whatever. I.V. lines these days are moving toward needle-less medication ports anyway, so you should be able to shove it into the port, inject the water, and it'll run out onto the guy's arm and be cold and wet and tickly because war is hell. Maybe he's allowed to talk once he's doped up, for example, but beforehand his silence is simulating the undashing screaming and wanting mum.

If stretchers are being used, oxygen would probably be transported on that. Simulating the fiddly aspects of the regulator would be difficult without a real one and not very interesting, so apart from a fizzy drink bottle painted green (or whatever colour it is here, black maybe?) it's just a mask and tube, which come packaged together and are probably cheap and definitely reusable, although you'd want to clean them between faces. Some varieties might restrict breathing a little so that's something to watch out for.

With all that, I think you'd have a fairly decent gamey simulation. It'd certainly make the guy playing the medic feel like a bad-ass, and it's something that you can get good at and something that you can not know how to do at all. None of it involves dicking with the casualty's gear beyond exposing a forearm, and I love anything that makes real-world fancy bits useful, like drag handles, armour plates, those quick-release vests, medic pouches and so on.

Really interesting. Its given me a few ideas.

What it does require though is someone designating themselves as the medic and playing that role regularly. Most people play riflemen rather than anything esoteric like medics or support.

On the other hand it would add an extra dimension to the gaming. I'd love to see this and perhaps dedicated radio operators being played in game.

evilrobotshane

Hivemind187 wrote: »

What it does require though is someone designating themselves as the medic and playing that role regularly. Most people play riflemen rather than anything esoteric like medics or support.

Yes indeed it does - it'd take a little bit of training and practice to be able to pull this off at all, let alone quickly under fire, but to my mind that's the appeal of it - not that you're the medic because you were the last one to say "not it!" but because you're one of the few that can be. A good medic would be a commodity because they'd be fast and capable. Obviously my opinion is coloured because I wouldn't be into this stuff if I weren't into it, but I would imagine that the skill and challenge would attract some people to the role.

I think the best thing about this, and a dedicated radio operator which is an excellent idea too, is that it doesn't change anything game-play-wise for those who like to play riflemen (except what'll be done to them when they go down, of course). They still have to access and secure areas, in this case the casualty's location, and hold them for a time period, in this case while the medic does whatever he's doing back there, hurry up medic. I suppose having to help carry a stretcher might be considered a chore by some, but apart from that this is low-impact stuff.

In case it's not clear from implication, if there's anything I can do to help in implementing this or anything like it, I'm all about it, just say the word.

Hivemind187

evilrobotshane wrote: »

Yes indeed it does - it'd take a little bit of training and practice to be able to pull this off at all, let alone quickly under fire, but to my mind that's the appeal of it - not that you're the medic because you were the last one to say "not it!" but because you're one of the few that can be. A good medic would be a commodity because they'd be fast and capable. Obviously my opinion is coloured because I wouldn't be into this stuff if I weren't into it, but I would imagine that the skill and challenge would attract some people to the role.

I think the best thing about this, and a dedicated radio operator which is an excellent idea too, is that it doesn't change anything game-play-wise for those who like to play riflemen (except what'll be done to them when they go down, of course). They still have to access and secure areas, in this case the casualty's location, and hold them for a time period, in this case while the medic does whatever he's doing back there, hurry up medic. I suppose having to help carry a stretcher might be considered a chore by some, but apart from that this is low-impact stuff.

In case it's not clear from implication, if there's anything I can do to help in implementing this or anything like it, I'm all about it, just say the word.

I'll have a chat with Sean about it. If we start to see an improvement in the attendance we'll put in the effort at our end to put together rules sets and systems for it. If it increases the immersion aspect for even a handful of players it is more than worth it.

We'll certainly be picking your brain about it over the coming weeks.