3rd party alarm monitoring and 999 emergency services

gollem_1975

hi there,

Are there any issues to consider with regard to alarm monitoring companies using the 999 ( or 112 ) service.

for example some alarms will not require the emergency services to be called while for others the Fire Brigade, Ambulance or Gardai.

Is the process as simple as the monitoring centre calling 999 ?

rgds,

Gollem

timmywex

Right, skip over monitering stations, waste of time i think.

Get a phone dialer installed on yuor alarm, they'll be putting one in anyway if it was to be monitered. Then set up numbers in it, you can put in a few different numbers.

Then when alarm goes off it rings/texts or whatever you or whatever numbers you have it set up as. Then you can check it out/call a nieghbor to check it out or call the gards and ask them to check it out.


With a monitering station, the phone dialer rings them, they ring the house(i think), if no answer, they ring the gards, and im sure some of the people on here will tell you, in busier stations it wont be priority. You pay a few hundred a year for that great service, personally think them systems are a little scammy.

If it contacts you first you can check it out first, or as i said ask someone to do it either

Sierra Oscar

I just have my system setup to ring the neighbors and myself. There will always be someone around to check it out.

The system I am using is pretty decent, gives all the info such as time/date and zone the alarm was triggered in.

999/112

Quote;S.O. The system I am using is pretty decent, gives all the info such as time/date and zone the alarm was triggered in.

Hi S.O. what make/type is your alarm system? Looks like its got all the bells and whistles. Also how much approx?

Sierra Oscar

999/112 wrote: »

Quote;S.O. The system I am using is pretty decent, gives all the info such as time/date and zone the alarm was triggered in.

Hi S.O. what make/type is your alarm system? Looks like its got all the bells and whistles. Also how much approx?

Its a HKC SecureWatch - I got mine installed by West Side Security Systems

Give them a bell and they will give you a quotation.

2011

With a monitering station, the phone dialer rings them, they ring the house(i think), if no answer, they ring the gards,

No, incorrect: If no answer then they ring the next keyholder.
If no answer from any keyholder they will not ring the gardai!

If they get a keyholder they will tell him the alarm has gone off.

2 alarm zones must have gone off within a set time (this is called a verified alarm signal) and the monitoring station has got hold of a keyholder before the monitoring station are permitted to ring the gardai. If the keyholder can not agree to make it to the premesis then the gardai will not be called as they will not have access.

Read all about it here:

http://www.isia.ie/isia/Files/Garda%20Alarm%20Policy%2009%2009%2008.pdf

You pay a few hundred a year for that great service, personally think them systems are a little scammy.

You are not the first to say this!

Get a phone dialer installed on yuor alarm, they'll be putting one in anyway if it was to be monitered. Then set up numbers in it, you can put in a few different numbers.

Then when alarm goes off it rings/texts or whatever you or whatever numbers you have it set up as. Then you can check it out/call a nieghbor to check it out or call the gards and ask them to check it out.

+1

gollem_1975

thanks for the advice guys.

i was thinking more about the monitoring of personal alarms such as medical pendants and panic buttons.

it says in the Garda document that the gardai will respond to personal alarms so that covers that area.

rgds,

Gollem

999/112

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Its a HKC SecureWatch - I got mine installed by West Side Security Systems

Give them a bell and they will give you a quotation.

Great, thank you.

maglite

2011 wrote: »

If no answer from any keyholder they will not ring the gardai!

Can someone verify this. I know a number of people who have at the instruction of the gardai had to install monitored alarms due to the contents of their house.

Why would this be sought if the gardai are not going to be informed

Sierra Oscar

maglite wrote: »

Can someone verify this. I know a number of people who have at the instruction of the gardai had to install monitored alarms due to the contents of their house.

Why would this be sought if the gardai are not going to be informed

They will respond - but only to verified alarm activation only. The specifics are all listed here.

Zambia

As I work for a monitoring centre I can honestly say in Ireland the autodiallers or texters are the better option.

In essence you are cutting out the middle man. If you sat down and simply worked out the list you should be fine.

As for Garda directive on Alarms I think its really good. If there is no keyholder there is no response from AGS. (Principly if you dont give a rats ass neither do we).

However I would have a question if you did by some chance get a activation on lets say two zones and your 1-2 hours away. The system that dials you did its job and rang you , could you then ring 000 and ask that the Gardai attend your home? Prior to your arrival.

As
Keyholders are a vital part of the response to intruder alarm activations. An Garda Siochana cannot police intruder alarm activations fully until they are admitted to the building. Keyholders must be in a position to respond to alarm activations.

This would infer you really have to be there in a reasonable time frame for them to respond.

I know the police here will simply say no keyholder,no response.

gollem_1975

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

They will respond - but only to verified alarm activation only. The specifics are all listed here.

perhaps an example of the people maglite is talking about are people who are storing firearms in their houses ?

gollem_1975

Zambia232 wrote: »

As I work for a monitoring centre I can honestly say in Ireland the autodiallers or texters are the better option.

In essence you are cutting out the middle man. If you sat down and simply worked out the list you should be fine.

As for Garda directive on Alarms I think its really good. If there is no keyholder there is no response from AGS. (Principly if you dont give a rats ass neither do we).

However I would have a question if you did by some chance get a activation on lets say two zones and your 1-2 hours away. The system that dials you did its job and rang you , could you then ring 000 and ask that the Gardai attend your home? Prior to your arrival.

As
Keyholders are a vital part of the response to intruder alarm activations. An Garda Siochana cannot police intruder alarm activations fully until they are admitted to the building. Keyholders must be in a position to respond to alarm activations.

This would infer you really have to be there in a reasonable time frame for them to respond.

I know the police here will simply say no keyholder,no response.

I have been looking at medical or social alarms specifically.

2 of the main players in the Irish market for installation of the hardware are charging about 280€ and then the monitoring is €66 per year ( though resellers seem to be charging €15 per month )

€66 per year seems reasonable enough. Does that compare favourably to the cost of simply getting an autodialler installed ?

Hooch

maglite wrote: »

Can someone verify this. I know a number of people who have at the instruction of the gardai had to install monitored alarms due to the contents of their house.

Why would this be sought if the gardai are not going to be informed

Verified Alarm activations only Mag. A verified alarm is an alarm that is activated by two or more sensers...ie a window being opened and a motion senser inside.

If a key holder cannot respond then either will Gardaí......we cannot insure that a building is secure without gaining entry.

My advice to people is as whats being advised above. Have the alarm set up to ring/text you on activitation. Thats how mine works and cost about €300. It gives time/date and zone activation and re texts with ever other senser that is activated. I have this set up to text 5 people. This way you can have someone on the way to your house and ring the local Garda station yourself and ask them to call out to inspect it.

Paulzx

We have an immediate response to all fire alarms rung into us by the monitoring companies. No independant verification of a definite fire is required. This applies to both domestic and commercial fire alarms.

We regularly arrive at premises were the fire alarm is supposed to be activated to discover it is in fact the intruder alarm. The suspicious among us might say that it is deliberatly rung in as a fire alarm to get an immediate response from us instead of waiting for a longer response from the Gardai. But thats just cynicism and would never happen:D

fred funk }{

Paulzx wrote: »

We have an immediate response to all fire alarms rung into us by the monitoring companies. No independant verification of a definite fire is required. This applies to both domestic and commercial fire alarms.

We regularly arrive at premises were the fire alarm is supposed to be activated to discover it is in fact the intruder alarm. The suspicious among us might say that it is deliberatly rung in as a fire alarm to get an immediate response from us instead of waiting for a longer response from the Gardai. But thats just cynicism and would never happen:D

I can assure you that when that happens there's no malice behind it. Alarms are setup a few different ways for monitoring, one way is to send in different type of alarms i.e Fire, Panic and Intruder as a channel number 1,2 and 3.

Depending on the central station those numbers will mean different things to each central station. For example, if there's a Panic button pushed in a shop the alarm will send in on channel 1 and the central station will read that as a Panic alarm and put a procedure in place for that type of activation.

A problem arises when the alarm isn't setup correctly and sends in the wrong number for that central station. So if the was a normal intruder activation and it should send in on channel 3 but instead it sends in on channel 2 the central station will think its a fire activation.

BTW how did you know it wasn't a fire activation?

Paulzx

fred funk }{ wrote: »

BTW how did you know it wasn't a fire activation?

When your looking at the fire alarm panel and it says everything is normal yet an alarm is sounding and the intruder panel is indicating you can pretty much assume its not a fire activation;)


This is not a once off occurance

fred funk }{

Paulzx wrote: »

When your looking at the fire alarm panel and it says everything is normal yet an alarm is sounding and the intruder panel is indicating you can pretty much assume its not a fire activation;)


This is not a once off occurance

Many intruder alarms have smoke heads connected to the system, how did you know one of them didn't detect smoke and set off the alarm? That was my point.
You boys should get a little bit of training on alarm systems.

Paulzx

We always physically walk around and individually check for the indicator lights on the sensors. Obviously detectors hidden away can't be found without a diagram of the system but you can only do your best.

Of course alarm systems never give false activations and its a fire brigade conspiracy to spread rumours that they do:rolleyes:

2011

Originally Posted by 2011
If no answer from any keyholder they will not ring the gardai!

As explained above, if the monitoring station cant get hold of a keyholder and get an agreement from the keyholder to turn up at a particular time the monitoring station are not permitted to call the Gardai.

Originally Posted by Maglite

Can someone verify this.

Yes.
Read it in the link below:

http://www.isia.ie/isia/Files/Garda%... 09 08.pdf

As nice guy always correctly points out, there is no point in the Gardai turning up to a house with an alarm going off if they can not get in.

Originally Posted by Maglite

I know a number of people who have at the instruction of the gardai had to install monitored alarms due to the contents of their house.

Why would this be sought if the gardai are not going to be informed

They will be informed, but only under the conditions described above.

The reason for it is that there have been so many false alarms in the past that wasted valuable Garda time. Because a verified alarm requires that 2 sensors must be triggered on 2 different zones (within a certain time frame) before the alarm can be verified there is less chance of it being a false alarm.

The downside is that a verified alarm signal gives an intruder more time before the Gardai can be called in the first place.

2011

fred funk }{

Many intruder alarms have smoke heads connected to the system, how did you know one of them didn't detect smoke and set off the alarm? That was my point.

You are correct here, but in the example Paulzx gave there was a seperate fire alarm panel. Normally when there is a seperate fire alarm system there would not be smoke head installed on the intruder alarm system.

fred funk }{

2011 wrote: »

fred funk }{
You are correct here, but in the example Paulzx gave there was a seperate fire alarm panel. Normally when there is a seperate fire alarm system there would not be smoke head installed on the intruder alarm system.

Normally being the important word. When it comes to inspecting a fire activation it can be a fatal mistake to assume things like that.

I have installed fire alarms in premises where there were smoke heads already installed on the intruder alarm. As the alarm wasn't mine they were left connected. My point was that just because the burglar alarm was ringing it didn't mean that there was no fire.

Yes you are correct normally when there are two seperate systems there is no heads connected to the burglar alarm but as I pointed out above it's a dangerous assumption to make.

fred funk }{

The downside is that a verified alarm signal gives an intruder more time before the Gardai can be called in the first place.

This is a problem. What I do is install a PIR in every room looking at the window (When the budget allows) to ensure a quick verified alarm.

I took over an alarm recently that was monitored, the windows had shocks only and there was no PIRs in the house. There was little hope of a verified alarm if there was a break in. Some companies don't care, only after the quick buck!

Zambia

This is very true, nothing like a glass break then a PIR activation to let you know your gaff has visitors.

However these guys dont hang around, unless you are next door chances are they will be long gone.

Sorry to say I know little about the pricing structure of monitoring here or in Ireland. However €66 sure thats for nothing.

Having also worked in telecoms if its a medical alarm best go with monitoring.

2011

Zambia232

Sorry to say I know little about the pricing structure of monitoring here or in Ireland. However €66 sure thats for nothing.

You will not get monitoring for anything approching this price. To have monitoring you must aslo pay for a maintance contract too!

gollem_1975

2011 wrote: »

Zambia232
You will not get monitoring for anything approching this price. To have monitoring you must aslo pay for a maintance contract too!

I was the person who introduced the figure of 66€ per year for monitoring into the discussion so let me clarify.

I am referring specifically to Telecare,Medical pendant or Social alarm monitoring.

there are 2 providers charging circa 280€ for installation of the alarms and monitoring for 66€ . A 3rd company , the main telco, charge - 375€ for installation and 88€ per year for monitoring.

i have no idea what security alarm monitoring costs but its more than likely a factor of what the market is willing to pay i.e. its more than what the market is willing to pay for Social alarm monitoring

2011

Thanks for the clarification gollem_1975, I understand now.

MyLink HomeTouch

gollem_1975 wrote: »

thanks for the advice guys.

i was thinking more about the monitoring of personal alarms such as medical pendants and panic buttons.

it says in the Garda document that the gardai will respond to personal alarms so that covers that area.

rgds,

Gollem

Hi Gollem,

my name is Daniel *SNIP*
Regards
Dan

Mod note: Advertising is not permitted.

goldie fish

Monitoring companies are only useful for business if they also act as keyholder. Otherwise a dialler is just as good.