Putting a dog out to stud

mellaine

Hi,
would anyone know where I could get information about putting my Cavalier King Charles out to stud? we live in the Portlaoise area

messygirl

hiya

depends how you want to do it, as far as i know if your dog is registered and male all you need to do is start advertising (not that i am suggesting you do that!) Make sure you know the reasons you want to put him to stud for when other breeders ask you

I would talk to the vet first about getting him health checked, ie, cardio tests and full check for all hereditary diseases. Once he is clear and you have documentation proving he is healthy and free from any problems, try contactng the cavalier society saying you have a dog you would like to stud. Might be useful to enter him into a few shows and win a few prizes first as he will be more in demand.

You may want to think about whether you will be boarding the bitch during the mating. If the bitch's owner can't sell the puppies they may expect you to!

Your vet, other breeders and the IKC/King charles society will be the most valuable source of information.

ISDW

Great advice from messygirl.

Why do you want to put him out to stud? Has he won any shows, and proved himself to be a good example of the breed? Have you had all of the relevant health checks done? That doesn't just mean getting the vet to say that he's healthy, all of the proper checks that go with your breed?

Now ask yourself, would you be prepared to look after the pups for the rest of their lives if they couldn't be sold, or if they were returned? In my opinion, the owner of the stud dog is just as responsible for those pups as the owner of the bitch.

Unfortunately the CKC have a lot of health problems, so you really need to make sure that he wouldn't be passing any heridetary conditions on to his pups. I don't know if you saw that documentary about pedigree dogs, but one of the most disturbing bits of it for me was seeing the CKCs and the agony they went through because of syringomelia.

ahaaha

i agree with the above - its such a shame to see the overbreeding of pedigree dogs is leading to such painful diseases for the animals.... i would also contact the IKC when you find a suitable bitch to ensure they are not closely related.

also another thing to ensure is the temprament (excuse spelling!) of both dogs is good - this can be inherited too...

i havent gotten any health checks on my basset but i do intend to breed him in the future if all checks come out ok - does anyone know what age should a male be before you put him to stud as i have had offers already - think he's too young at just 9 months

messygirl

When I was looking to get a cav they said the parents should be 2 and a half at least, not sure if it is the same with all dog breeds?

I think 9 months would be a little too young mainly because you wouldnt be able to know fully his temperment and if he has any health problems.

ahaaha

thanks messygirl, its good to know - i really dont want to harm him in anyway, even though they are supposedly fully grown in the first year or so. temperment is fantastic so far, excellent with all dogs and kids, but we'll wait til the hormones fully kick in and see how he is then before i get the vet to give him the ok!

messygirl

got my oh a golden 3 years ago, he is still the same but he is a lot more gentle with other animals and so handsome and has really filled out, they change for the better really!

Ruby Soho

Ok, the Irish Kennel club guidelines for stud dogs:
Minimum age to start breeding: 18 months
Maximum age to breed: 12 years
Males must mate a MAXIMUM of one bitch per fortnight.
If these rules are ignored, i.e. the male is bred earlier than one year, the kennel club reserve the right to refuse to register any pups born. Male dogs are, however, quite capable of siring a litter far earlier than this(puberty at 6months?), so you must be aware of these rules before you put your dog to stud with the intention of having IKC reg'd pups.
Out of interest for anyone with a bitch, recommended age: at least 18-24 months, must be no older than 8 years and definitely no younger than one year, and must not exceed a maximum of 6 litters in a lifetime.

Arcadian

Are you prepared to fork out the €1,000+ to have him MRI'd to rule out SM to ensure you're not producing pups who are going to have a life of pain? If not, neuter him

messygirl

take a look at "pedigree dogs exposed" on youtube, the breeding information is like a what not to do list!

with the cavs, please dont think i agree with this, but i was told there is only one mobile clinic in ireland that does the scans and then i rang a breeder who had everything tested except for sm cos she couldnt get anyone to do it. the tests are very expensive and no many people have them and unfortunately not many expect them,

Before investing in any health tests talk to other breeders, take him to shows, ask other breeders opinions of him, ask the vets opinion, advertise as a possible mate for next year and see the response. Make sure people will want him as breeding stock. Not trying to be clinical but it isnt very responsible to breed a sick dog in an already unhealthy breed, but neither should you pay 1000's for tests and then find out that people are already going elsewhere for the dogs. Also be prepared for the worst, if you have your dog tested and he is carrying genetic problems it is not a good idea to breed from him (saying that there is a disgraceful woman on that show whose dog had sm and since she found out she allowed him to sire TWENTY SEVEN LITTERS!!! that is over 100 puppies with a "champion" line who have a better chance of getting sick and al because she was a money grubbing, self pompous (ahem) who preferred to cash in on her dogs titles and subject countless other dogs to the horrible disease! grrrr)

Arcadian

messygirl wrote: »

except for sm cos she couldnt get anyone to do it.

She's talking rubbish, my own vets can get me an appointment for an mri within 4 weeks.

Ruby Soho

There's a clinic in North Dublin that do them on a monthly basis alright, cost is pretty prohibitive (I think about 1000-1300 euro) but if you're serious about improving the quality of the breed...?

Magenta

messygirl wrote: »

it isnt very responsible to breed a sick dog in an already unhealthy breed, but neither should you pay 1000's for tests and then find out that people are already going elsewhere for the dogs.

No, it's not responsible, which is why the test should be done. The health of the dogs should come before worrying about whether people will buy them.

messygirl

Magenta wrote: »

No, it's not responsible, which is why the test should be done. The health of the dogs should come before worrying about whether people will buy them.

I do agree,was warning the op what the costs could lead to and the possible disappointment on discovering that the dog has genetic defects, and the temptation to breed him anyway to recoup the losses which some people might do.

im guessing between mri, plagellata (excuse spelling) and cardio checks, plus health checks every year, it would probably cost in the region of 2/3000 euro? (no idea about cardio and that) If you get 200/250 per mating then you need 8-12 litters to break even in the first year, not 100% how much a stud cav charges. Look at the costs and look at how much you can earn, and balance them up.

Magenta

messygirl wrote: »

I do agree,was warning the op what the costs could lead to and the possible disappointment on discovering that the dog has genetic defects, and the temptation to breed him anyway to recoup the losses which some people might do.

im guessing between mri, plagellata (excuse spelling) and cardio checks, plus health checks every year, it would probably cost in the region of 2/3000 euro? (no idea about cardio and that) If you get 200/250 per mating then you need 8-12 litters to break even in the first year, not 100% how much a stud cav charges. Look at the costs and look at how much you can earn, and balance them up.

Yeah, it is unfortunate that some people might breed pups anyway to get the money back from the costs of the tests. The idea of breeding should be to improve the breed, which is why the health tests need to be done in the first place, so breeding the dogs regardless of the test results defeats the whole purpose of getting them done in the first place- but sometimes money means more to people

Demonique

messygirl wrote: »

Also be prepared for the worst, if you have your dog tested and he is carrying genetic problems it is not a good idea to breed from him (saying that there is a disgraceful woman on that show whose dog had sm and since she found out she allowed him to sire TWENTY SEVEN LITTERS!!! that is over 100 puppies with a "champion" line who have a better chance of getting sick and al because she was a money grubbing, self pompous (ahem) who preferred to cash in on her dogs titles and subject countless other dogs to the horrible disease! grrrr)

Oh you mean the bottle-blond, fake tanned bimbo who looked like a slapper?

Lemlin

messygirl wrote: »

I do agree,was warning the op what the costs could lead to and the possible disappointment on discovering that the dog has genetic defects, and the temptation to breed him anyway to recoup the losses which some people might do.

im guessing between mri, plagellata (excuse spelling) and cardio checks, plus health checks every year, it would probably cost in the region of 2/3000 euro? (no idea about cardio and that) If you get 200/250 per mating then you need 8-12 litters to break even in the first year, not 100% how much a stud cav charges. Look at the costs and look at how much you can earn, and balance them up.

I think a lot of people are being a bit naive here. Do you really think breeders are forking out 2/3k to get these tests done? I'd imagine there is a small percentage of breeders who get these tests done and I'd imagine its less than 5%.

I'd also imagine they are charging top dollar for their stud dogs or pups, money which alot of people can't afford, especially today.

The whole kennel club process is full of controversey and people out to make a quick buck. That BCC programme showed that buying a pup off even distinguished members of the kennel club in no way proves that you are getting a healthy dog.

That's why I do laugh a bit when people say to contact the IKC for a recommended list of breeders. Did you watch that programme? A dog that won the most distinguished title going in these islands, Best At Crufts, needed a facelift.

I myself must admit when I get my next dog I'll be contacting the IKC for a recommended breeder but I'll certainly be doing a lot more investigating when I get a name off them because it is certainly no guarantee that you are getting a quality, healthy dog.

Lemlin

Ruby Soho wrote: »

Ok, the Irish Kennel club guidelines for stud dogs:
Minimum age to start breeding: 18 months
Maximum age to breed: 12 years
Males must mate a MAXIMUM of one bitch per fortnight.
If these rules are ignored, i.e. the male is bred earlier than one year, the kennel club reserve the right to refuse to register any pups born. Male dogs are, however, quite capable of siring a litter far earlier than this(puberty at 6months?), so you must be aware of these rules before you put your dog to stud with the intention of having IKC reg'd pups.
Out of interest for anyone with a bitch, recommended age: at least 18-24 months, must be no older than 8 years and definitely no younger than one year, and must not exceed a maximum of 6 litters in a lifetime.

Thanks for that. I hadn't realised the maximum number of litters a bitch can have is six.