Some IAA license questions?

Can_Solo

Hello guys,
First post baby here.

I've been researching flying training in all its possible forms for some time now and am currently saving/waiting for the market to change before starting a PPL with the aim to aquire cpl et al in time.
I am very interested in one of the schools out in Florida for my training but won't be beginning for some time.

I have a few questions that I know could be answered by phoning the IAA but I like to read things for myself. I don't seem to be able to find the answers on the website.

It appears to me that the schools in Florida offering JAA complaint training are geared firmly towards the UK CAA exams/sylabus etc.

Would I be correct in assuming that, like much Irish Legislation and Regulations, the Irish exams are 'very similar' to the UK versions?

Starting with the PPL for the sake of argument and with this in mind, I assume that to train on a JAA course in Florida would require that I take IAA exams in Ireland in order for any license awarded to be able to be used in the Republic? ( and an Irish medical etc )

In fact, are the IAA in a position to prevent a JAA qualified pilot from flying if they feel their licenses are not valid in the Republic or do they accept that JAA is universal in the european theatre?
Or, is this an issue for an employer, in which case, if they accept your licenses, then no problem?

Furthermore, I notice that when looking at the UK CAA website, a wealth of information, relevant to UK pilots is available, is there an Irish equivalent? and where is it? or do Irish student pilots use the UK resources in the comforting knowledge that the IAA operate under the same rules and we are all one big happy family?

Perhaps if there is anyone out there who has followed this route you could advise me of the potential pitfalls to look out for in terms of international compliance.

Thanks in advance and regards

diverdriver

First off I suggest you call the IAA and talk to them. They are usually quite good about things like that.

However to answer a few of your questions

The exams are virtually identical, in fact even before the JAA the Irish exams closely followed the British. The IAA recognise CAA exams and vice versa. In fact there are no Irish textbooks for the JAA exams. They are all British.

But

Irish Legislation and Regulations,

are different in terms of rules of the Air etc. You would need to familiarise yourself with them in time if you intend to operate in Ireland.

A British JAA licence is perfectly valid for flying in Ireland and elsewhere. There is not need to convert at all. In fact often it's the airlines who insist on converting licences. Ryanair for example insist you change to an IAA licence. Even so it's just a paperwork transaction.

By all means use the info on the CAA website, the IAA site is far less detailed but there is plenty there too. The rules are not quite same as I said but you can make yourself familiar with them easily enough. The IAA publish the AIP, Notams, Aeronautical notices. It's all there on their website.

To summarise, the CAA licence is perfectly valid in this country. So it isn't a problem at all.

donkey balls

The exams are virtually identical, in fact even before the JAA the Irish exams closely followed the British. The IAA recognise CAA exams and vice versa. In fact there are no Irish textbooks for the JAA exams. They are all British.

the CAA wont recognise IAA exams this happened to a guy in florida who did his exams here and went to the USA to complete his training.
ended up having to re take the exams.

also florida is much cheaper its possible to get your ppl done in three weeks(weather dependant).then the atpl which can take six months full time or about a year if your doing it part time.
then your hour buliding /cpl multy&ir pass everything and you have a
f-atpl thats if your doing fixed wing not sure for rotary

Can_Solo

Thanks for the replies guys. I suppose the first key point is that as long as I have a JAA license then I am free to operate anywhere in JAA land.

I spoke to the IAA some time ago about learning in Ireland and it seemed apparent that they look very closely at continuity of instruction. So much so that it seems very difficult to change from one flying school to another once training has started there. This seems very limiting to me if not bordering on a monopoly issue.

But as long as I gain 'each individual' license in it's entirety, in Florida, UK or anywhere else then this won't be an issue hopefully.

I have been buying bits and pieces as I go along for a while now and already have a full set of the air pilots manual books 1-7. I will assume its safe to learn that stuff then. It's frustrating siting around waiting to save up the funds but the plan is to use the time I have now wisely. As a previous thread discussed, I hope to concentrate on flying when out in Florida.

Thanks again for the reply's.
Is their anyone about who has done a bit of training in Florida?
I like the look of Ormond Beach, anyone have experience of this school?

donkey balls

Is their anyone about who has done a bit of training in Florida?
I like the look of Ormond Beach, anyone have experience of this school?

there good i trained for my ppl there my mates did all their training there i.e ppl hour building cpl/multi they only do an faa ir which you would need to get it converted to an jaa ir.

if you need anymore info you can pm me as i dont want to be seeing to promote certain flying schools on the forum i.e advertising/publicity

diverdriver

Yes, donkey balls, the vice versa crept in there. It should really have been not vice versa. In any case the IAA accept CAA exams but you have to tell them. Many people get them by distance learning through Bristol.

I spoke to the IAA some time ago about learning in Ireland and it seemed apparent that they look very closely at continuity of instruction. So much so that it seems very difficult to change from one flying school to another once training has started there. This seems very limiting to me if not bordering on a monopoly issue.

I think you may have got the wrong end of the stick there. There are only three FTOs capable of training to CPL/IR in Ireland anyway. You can if you wish get your PPL at one, CPL at another and multi IR at another or get your PPL in America. The continuity applies to the individual modules. So you cannot start your IR at the NFC and finish it with PTC or in Florida or somewhere else. It's not a monopoly issue.

Many people get their PPL at a club or in Florida, then hour build while doing the ATPL exams. Then they chose a school for the CPL module, quite often staying there for the Multi/IR.

An alternative route which many use is to get a foreign licence, FAA or maybe South African. Then come back to Ireland or go to the UK and do a conversion course in order to get a JAA licence. Then pass the appropriate flight tests. This can be very cost effective. However be warned going to the cheapest school isn't that cost effective. Sometimes the training isn't up to scratch and a lot of remedial work has to be done before you can be put forward for a flight test. Of course you also have to take the JAA ATPL exams.

Can_Solo

diverdriver wrote: »

I think you may have got the wrong end of the stick there. There are only three FTOs capable of training to CPL/IR in Ireland anyway. You can if you wish get your PPL at one, CPL at another and multi IR at another or get your PPL in America. The continuity applies to the individual modules. So you cannot start your IR at the NFC and finish it with PTC or in Florida or somewhere else. It's not a monopoly issue.

Ah I see, that seems much more reasonable. The continuity issue makes sense in itself.

I assume you mean the atpl exams through Bristol, not PPL, I was intending to use them anyway.
It seems that hour building in the US is far more econimical than here. I have read that instrument ratings are tougher under the CAA and for that reason can leave pilots better prepared for line training etc. Difficult to verify of course but the arguments about weather and volumes of traffic seem to make sense.

Sorry if this thread is drifting a little, I hope it is valuable to others and not just me.
Economics dictate I should do my cpl in Florida also, however as you quite rightly point out, catch up training if needed will push the cost up anyway.
Isn't it desirable to do a CPL and IR as part of the same course? In my niavety I assumed a CPL would include large volumes of IR work anyway. At least this decision can be deferred until a time when I have more idea about the industry.

Back to Donkey balls (hard not to snigger at that title), I am very excited about going out to Florida, I will take it to the backroom as you suggest.

Can_Solo

diverdriver wrote: »

I think you may have got the wrong end of the stick there. There are only three FTOs capable of training to CPL/IR in Ireland anyway. You can if you wish get your PPL at one, CPL at another and multi IR at another or get your PPL in America. The continuity applies to the individual modules. So you cannot start your IR at the NFC and finish it with PTC or in Florida or somewhere else. It's not a monopoly issue.

Ah I see, that seems much more reasonable. The continuity issue makes sense in itself.

I assume you mean the atpl exams through Bristol, not PPL, I was intending to use them anyway.
It seems that hour building in the US is far more econimical than here. I have read that instrument ratings are tougher under the CAA and for that reason can leave pilots better prepared for line training etc. Difficult to verify of course but the arguments about weather and volumes of traffic seem to make sense.

Sorry if this thread is drifting a little, I hope it is valuable to others and not just me.
Economics dictate I should do my cpl in Florida also, however as you quite rightly point out, catch up training if needed will push the cost up anyway.
Isn't it desirable to do a CPL and IR as part of the same course? In my niavety I assumed a CPL would include large volumes of IR work anyway. At least this decision can be deferred until a time when I have more idea about the industry.

Back to Donkey balls (hard not to snigger at that title), I am very excited about going out to Florida, I will take it to the backroom as you suggest.

diverdriver

You won't need catch up if you do a CAA JAA licence in the US. Only if you got an FAA licence and ratings.

The situation with the CPL and Multi IR is that they are separate. Each course is a module. So are treated differently. The CPL to be honest is little different to the PPL flight test. The standards are higher of course and you're expected to have greater knowledge and act the part of a professional pilot. But you'll learn that during the training for the CPL. I think there's only a requirement for 10 hours of instrument work in the CPL. 5 of that can be in a sim. JAR FCL-1 has all the requirements http://www.jaa.nl/publications/jars/607069.pdf

The multi IR is the difficult bit and the standards shoot up. The muliti engine flying isn't that big a deal. It's the instrument work that takes the effort. Your flying needs to reach a high standard if you are to pass the flight test for the IR. Most people find it's the toughest test. I certainly did.

Keep up the research, PPRuNe is a good port of call. Go to Wannabees and the and read the sticky before you leap in and ask questions. There is plenty of info there. http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies-14/

When it comes to training, try not to skimp. Low prices can mean low standards. I personally have come across pilots who quite simply haven't even got the basics right, yet they have all the licences and ratings. They get found out at airline interviews and sim checks. The sad thing is that don't understand why. Plenty of instructors will tell you the same.

Can_Solo

Thank you for your guidance fellas, you have clarified a number of issues.
It is hugely appreciated.