BT Ireland and Vodafone announce partnership

cyburger

http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/0722/vodafone.html

Increasing LLU footprint by up to 58, covering 60% of home phone lines.... fingers crossed they get my exchange.

edit - removed "to merge" as it was incorrect...

Jonathan

Disaster

The_Conductor

Whys it a disaster? Its a proper competitor for Eircon at long last. Let the battle commence.......

ongarite

Jonathan wrote: »

Disaster

Why?
They offer the same basic internet bundle packages for prices cheaper than Eircom & Vodafone have probably a better chance of expanding with their free Vodafone mobile calls included in their packages.

The_Conductor

Jonathan wrote: »

Disaster

Only if you have shares in Eircon!

Onikage

Value of €4.8m? Sounds low for 84,000 customers and 3,000 small businesses.

Jonathan

I'm with BT, and very happy with them.

This most likely means a raft of changes for the customer, including new packages, new tech support and a new billing system, not to mention a slapped together backhaul similar to UPC's cable management, cablelink and cablevision networks.

Onikage

Jonathan wrote: »

a new billing system

Judging from the comments on this forum, that could only be a massive improvement.

Jonathan

Onikage wrote: »

Judging from the comments on this forum, that could only be a massive improvement.

Never had any problems myself. New bill layout etc now.

jor el

I don't see how this does anything for broadband in Ireland. Neither BT nor Vodafone are competition for eircom, as they are both mainly re-sellers. BT's LLU is tiny, no more than a PR exercise really.

Getting rid of BT's legendary billing system would be a major improvement, but I honestly can't see them migrating all the existing customers off of this and onto Vodafone's.

watty

BT Ireland is to transfer its consumer and small business broadband customers, as well as its voice telephone customers, to Vodafone under an agreement between the two telecoms companies.

Not a merger.

The only bit of BT Ireland worth much is the CIE-ESAT and other ESAT fibre infrastructures. Vodafone needs access to that for LLU and Mobile Mast backhaul.

Somewhile ago we heard that BT was pulling out of Retail, now we know how.

There are over 20 ISPs in a country big enough for maybe 2 to 4, 6 at outside. Expect more consolidation.

Fake competition of reselling LLU or Bitstream does not make real money (except for eircom) and does nothing to increase our broadband infrastructure.

This makes no real difference to anyone on broadband. It does mean a very little something for Vodafone Mobile users perhaps. But Vodafone would have been buying BT (CIE-ESAT) fibre capacity anyway.

Re: BT Billing
Some amount of BT employees are transferring to Vodafone. That would be the billing?
Perlico (now Vodafone) customers still get Perlico bills?

Maybe the bills will be printed on Perlico paper, but from EXACT same system operated by same staff, but under Vodafone ownership.

dub45

watty wrote: »

Not a merger.

The only bit of BT Ireland worth much is the CIE-ESAT and other ESAT fibre infrastructures. Vodafone needs access to that for LLU and Mobile Mast backhaul.

Somewhile ago we heard that BT was pulling out of Retail, now we know how.

There are over 20 ISPs in a country big enough for maybe 2 to 4, 6 at outside. Expect more consolidation.

Fake competition of reselling LLU or Bitstream does not make real money (except for eircom) and does nothing to increase our broadband infrastructure.

This makes no real difference to anyone on broadband. It does mean a very little something for Vodafone Mobile users perhaps. But Vodafone would have been buying BT (CIE-ESAT) fibre capacity anyway.

Re: BT Billing
Some amount of BT employees are transferring to Vodafone. That would be the billing?
Perlico (now Vodafone) customers still get Perlico bills?

Maybe the bills will be printed on Perlico paper, but from EXACT same system operated by same staff, but under Vodafone ownership.

Just so long as they leave the BT billing system behind them!:rolleyes:

dgently

watty wrote: »

Not a merger.

The only bit of BT Ireland worth much is the CIE-ESAT and other ESAT fibre infrastructures. Vodafone needs access to that for LLU and Mobile Mast backhaul.

Surprised to see you post such a poorly informed analysis Watty. BT has a great network, Vodafone has marketing and strategic advantages. Should be a good deal for both sets of customers.

kaizersoze

Watty is correct. It's not a merger.

It's no secret that BT have wanted out of the residential market for a while now.
All BT are doing is off loading it's low/no profit customers to Vodafone and throwing in fibre access to sweeten the deal.
No benefit to consumers or broadband in general.

dgently

kaizersoze wrote: »

Watty is correct. It's not a merger.

True, it was confusing of me to leave that in the quoted text. It is certainly not a merger.

watty

dgently wrote: »

Surprised to see you post such a poorly informed analysis Watty. BT has a great network, Vodafone has marketing and strategic advantages. Should be a good deal for both sets of customers.

BT still has (mostly the original CIE-ESAT fibre BT bought with ESAT, maps are online). They are only off loading the worthless bit that that they have to pay rental for each customer (even on LLU) to eircom for.

Makes no difference to customers really. I bet vodafone bought the BT retail billing to avoid cost of migration of customers.

Gives Vodafone more captive audience to sell mobile bundle too (same as perlico purchase but much cheaper).

Gets BT out of loss making/break even retail and only wholesaling the network (separate to eircom, unlike Bitstream, LLU and phone business).

Cabaal

This could be a very positive move in relation to an actual real threat to Eircom as BT both use LLU and Bit-stream products which will now be combined with Vodafones Perlico offers of ADSL and Vodafones offers of Midband products.

Overall it should be a pretty strong company when it comes up against Eircom and it has the money to make investments too which is extremely important

TheDriver

it is a good deal as I was thinking of changing to Vodafone from BT because for 1 euro extra a month, i go from calls inclusive 1mb with a 10gb limit to calls inclusive, 3mb with 30gb limit and 3 hours vodafone mobile calls a month. wonder will everyone be transferred onto the new vodafone packages??

jor el

Considering that Vodafone bought Perlico, and then kept the two separate, and are still selling them as individual packages, I'd say there won't be any change to BT customers, except perhaps they might get inclusive calls to Vodafone numbers (for those paying for the bundled call packages maybe) in the same way that eircom give free Meteor calls on theirs.

The packages, websites, etc will probably not change at all. If you're considering a move to Vodafone because you like the Vodafone package, then go for it.

dubhthach

This nicely ties in with the deal they did with E-Net to get access to the MAN's (Metropolitan Area Network's) see:
http://www.e-net.ie/news.php?newsid=64

Most of the unbundled exchanges outside of Dublin happen to have connections to the MAN's.

Cabaal

jor el wrote: »

..... except perhaps they might get inclusive calls to Vodafone numbers (for those paying for the bundled call packages maybe) in the same way that eircom give free Meteor calls on theirs. t.

Comreg ruled that eircom had to suspend selling that package (free calls to Meteor) pending the outcome of a investigation in respect of unfair business practices.

As such this package is not available at present, at present they only appear to give mobile offers along the lines of x free min a month

Gwynston

Cabaal wrote: »

Comreg ruled that eircom had to suspend selling that package (free calls to Meteor) pending the outcome of a investigation in respect of unfair business practices.

As such this package is not available at present, at present they only appear to give mobile offers along the lines of x free min a month

I just did a search and got offered the bundled Meteor calls:
'eircom recommends this product'

kierank01

Does anyone know how this might affect BT's free calls to the uk?

jor el

No one knows anything about the particulars at this stage, and it will likely be quite a while before they do know.

Fratton Fred

kierank01 wrote: »

Does anyone know how this might affect BT's free calls to the uk?

hopefully it won't. who knows, you may even get Vodafone ireland to Vodafone UK calls included. Now that would be worth a fortune to me.

Magnet: Rory

As an employee of Magnet, I am aware that there may be some unease at the recent news of BT’s sale of its residential customers to Vodafone.

In case people are unaware or upset that they had no choice in picking a new broadband provider I thought it would be prudent to mention that Magnet can offer the fastest un-contended (no sharing) broadband services in Ireland, up to 24Mb, in addition to phone bundles and TV on your PC with Magnet’s PCTV service.

Magnet can provide the fastest broadband that your telephone line can produce.

As a special offer to ex BT customers Magnet is offering a 10% discount on all 24Mb Broadband connections up until the end of August.

If you’re interested in talking to us about your broadband connection I can be contacted via private message.

Greyfox

Magnet (Rory) wrote: »

As an employee of Magnet, I am aware that there may be some unease at the recent news of BT’s sale of its residential customers to Vodafone.

In case people are unaware or upset that they had no choice in picking a new broadband provider I thought it would be prudent to mention that Magnet can offer the fastest un-contended (no sharing) broadband services in Ireland, up to 24Mb, in addition to phone bundles and TV on your PC with Magnet’s PCTV service.

Magnet can provide the fastest broadband that your telephone line can produce.

As a special offer to ex BT customers Magnet is offering a 10% discount on all 24Mb Broadband connections up until the end of August.

If you’re interested in talking to us about your broadband connection I can be contacted via private message.

Why would their be unease? I can't see any reason why this could have a negative effect on BT customers especially with the fact that theirs BT employees moving to Vodaphone! Your targets in magnet must be tough if you need to advertise on boards.

Eh every Broadband company can provide the fastest broadband that any persons line can produce...it's just that most peoples lines can get nowhere near 24Mb with any company!

Maboza

Greyfox wrote: »

Why would their be unease? I can't see any reason why this could have a negative effect on BT customers especially with the fact that theirs BT employees moving to Vodaphone! Your targets in magnet must be tough if you need to advertise on boards.

Eh every Broadband company can provide the fastest broadband that any persons line can produce...it's just that most peoples lines can get nowhere near 24Mb with any company!

Ahem..

Cabaal

Magnet (Rory) wrote: »

As an employee of Magnet, I am aware that there may be some unease at the recent news of BT’s sale of its residential customers to Vodafone.

In case people are unaware or upset that they had no choice in picking a new broadband provider I thought it would be prudent to mention that Magnet can offer the fastest un-contended (no sharing) broadband services in Ireland, up to 24Mb, in addition to phone bundles and TV on your PC with Magnet’s PCTV service.

Magnet can provide the fastest broadband that your telephone line can produce.

As a special offer to ex BT customers Magnet is offering a 10% discount on all 24Mb Broadband connections up until the end of August.

If you’re interested in talking to us about your broadband connection I can be contacted via private message.

Rory please see my PM.

In relation to your comments, your basis for this uncertainly is unfounded at this stage as historical views prove otherwise, example in point being Vodafone buyout of Perlico and the fact that this to date has changed little for existing Perlico customers.

Given that Vodafone's deal is not even a "sale" as such and merely a partnership to switch customers over to Vodafone so they will deal with customers on the front end of things which its been obvious that BT wanted to get out of for some time.

Lets stay relevant on this and avoid speculation like this

Finally on a separate matter, Maboza if you have nothing helpful to add to this forum other then picking at grammar I'd recommend you don't continue to post.

Just got this email from BT:

BaconZombie

When did Smart Telecom stop offering a 24Mib non-contended ADSL2+ service?

Magnet (Rory) wrote: »

Magnet can offer the fastest un-contended (no sharing) broadband services in Ireland, up to 24Mb, in addition to phone bundles and TV on your PC with Magnet’s PCTV service.

Magnet can provide the fastest broadband that your telephone line can produce.

ardmacha

Broadband and mobile can converge. Voda can offer home service via the broadband on the mobile handset. One bill €50 or so for all calls and broadband.

O2 are looking at this sort of thing

http://www.airvana.com/products/products_559.htm#what_femtocell

Sierra Oscar

Cabaal wrote: »

This could be a very positive move in relation to an actual real threat to Eircom as BT both use LLU and Bit-stream products which will now be combined with Vodafones Perlico offers of ADSL and Vodafones offers of Midband products.

Seems more like BT want to off-load the hassle of its Irish market to Vodafone.

Cabaal

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Seems more like BT want to off-load the hassle of its Irish market to Vodafone.

Given there changes in the UK this still makes sense, why continue with something with you don't really want to do the front end stuff anymore...its much easier instead to transfer things over to a company that is looking to expand its offerings

watty

Why would a Company that has profitable Infrastructure in Ireland want break-even/loss-making Irish Retail?

This makes no difference at all for customers, except eventually they will get Vodafone mobile bundle offers and makes BT more profitable.

I think "partnership" is a curious name for it, perhaps to ensure existing Direct Debits and Contracts are valid. It will be interesting to see what company's name is on the bill in a years time. It's a transfer of BT Ireland retail to Vodafone.

It really makes Vodafone ultimately the 2nd biggest in terms of Retail customers, however this is NOT competiton to eircom as most of the profit is eircom wholesale with eircom retail or vodafone/perlico/bt-retail fixed line business (LLU or not) only close to break-even. LLU also only eircom really makes money.

Now if eircom wasn't having to spend it all on servicing Debt we might get somewhere.

Cabaal

While it may not be 'real' competition its still competition none the less as the likes of Eircom generate alot of revenue from calls and if Vodafone take enough customers it will affect eircom's revenue.

What we need is the UK model in Ireland, split Eircom into Eircom wholesale and Eircom Retail as completely separate company's.
This would create a more level playing field as Eircom Wholesale would have to deal with Vodafone, Eircom etc all equally

In addition it would mean Eircom Retail would have to get on on its own

rebel.ranter

Cabaal wrote: »

What we need is the UK model in Ireland, split Eircom into Eircom wholesale and Eircom Retail as completely separate company's.
This would create a more level playing field as Eircom Wholesale would have to deal with Vodafone, Eircom etc all equally

Yea the government messe up here at the time. They learned their lesson though with the ESB splittting them into the ESB Networks & ESB Supply.

Eircom have a stranglehold on this country's telecom resources. Everything seems to tbe a struggle with them to move things along. In other countries like Spain they are running fibre directly to the home, meanwhile a friend of mine cannot even get 1Mb BB 10 miles outside Cork city!

rebel.ranter

Just spooted this thread, looks like I was way ahead of myself back then!

http://wwww.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055065876

watty

It only really affects eircom revenue if people switch to Mobile for calls and Internet and cancel the phone line.

(Or cable, Fixed wireless)
Mobile, Fibre, Fixed Wireless, Cable (3 companies) and two way sat is real competition that hurts eircom. They would still be #1 in before debt repayment profits if every fixed line customer was on a different supplier. That's why BT Ireland is getting out of fixed line retail. The margin is too small to non-existant.

This is why Sky is not here.

Rather_b_diving

Absolutely agree with Watty - low margin product with loads of whiny customers complaining about their broadband bill - who needs them.

BT also signed a deal with O2 for national backhaul and now they have Vodafone so they get to fill up their network without having to support 1000's of customers.

Almost all of the 170K customers that are now with Vodafone are bitstream and WLR so eircom still retain the line rental plus the bitstream revenue plus every inbound and outbound call is revenue for eircom.

Real competition is needed not more companies reselling eircom

Vunderground

Got an offer in the post from BT yesterday offering 50% off the next 2 month bill if we sign up for another 12 months. But BT is no more! Bit confusing?

Scruff

So my and everyone else's bill payments remain unchanged and still go to a BT account. I wonder how much hassle Vodafone will have with their billing of BT to get the money of them

Rather_b_diving

Vunderground wrote: »

Got an offer in the post from BT yesterday offering 50% off the next 2 month bill if we sign up for another 12 months. But BT is no more! Bit confusing?

What a great idea !! You sign up to 12 more months so when they screw up the billing migration or DD changes you can't cancel - ingenious

Cabaal

Rather_b_diving wrote: »

What a great idea !! You sign up to 12 more months so when they screw up the billing migration or DD changes you can't cancel - ingenious

That depends, if BT/Vodafone change the wording of the agreement for the service then you can cancel

That's 'if' they do this

T&C's state:

15.4 BT reserves the right to alter any terms of this Agreement upon 30 days notice to the Customer. In the event of any such alteration, the Customer shall have the ability to terminate the Service without penalty, by giving notice to BT within 30 days of notification by BT of such alteration, subject to payment by the Customer in full of all charges due prior to the date of receipt of such notice by BT.

http://www.btireland.ie/tncb.shtml

watty

I think this is EXACTLY why the in reality transfer of BT Ireland Retail to Vodafone is presented as a Partnership and why the same billing etc will remain. What happens when the minimum contract period ends for "BT" customers will be interesting. I don't beleive any existing contract during existing term will migrate anywhere.

Rather_b_diving

That's just it the service won't change cos its mostly bitstream - probably IP addresses will remain BTs but migrating from a flaky BT billing system to vodafone could create Billing / DD issues. This was my main reason for cancelling with BT and I could ONLY do this after the initial 12 months were up.

Ts&Cs don't say anything about being able to cancel if they screw up your bill and take a large DD payment. They will say we'll fix it over the next 2 months but you can't cancel (I've been a victim of this as are many other)

So what better way of retaining the customer base who might be out of contract than to resign them ensuring they have 12 months to get their act together.

thund3rbird_

I know it's early days but does anyone know what effect this will have on BT BB only customers (ie landline still with eircon)?

according to Voda's T&Cs it looks like you can't have BB without transferring the line as well:

The Contract is for the provision of the Service for a landline & fixed broadband Internet connection or a landline only package.

also,
voda's limit on the 7.6M is 30G
bt's is unlimited (with throttling kicking in around 100G according to other posts on here)
will the 'unlimited' usage still stand??

watty

Should make no difference. The BT T&C is what applies to existing BT retail even though they are now Vodafone's (Like Perlico).

The unlimited isn't unlimited. Expect the fine print of FUP / T&C to be applied in the future.

cyburger

There's an FAQ up on the BT site now I see...

http://www.btireland.ie/vodafone_partnership_faq.shtml

thund3rbird_ wrote: »

voda's limit on the 7.6M is 30G
bt's is unlimited (with throttling kicking in around 100G according to other posts on here)
will the 'unlimited' usage still stand??

as Cabaal pointed out earlier, it looks like if there is a change in service or the T&Cs, (which a change in download limit would be?) that anybody who would be effected and isn't happy, would have 30 days to decide if they want to move etc.

zil

I'm currently a bt bb only (eircom landline customer) and this definatly sounds worrying, especially considering the 30 gig cap the vodafone imposes, might have to make that switch to magnet afterall.

Cabaal

zil wrote: »

I'm currently a bt bb only (eircom landline customer) and this definatly sounds worrying, especially considering the 30 gig cap the vodafone imposes, might have to make that switch to magnet afterall.

Thing is at this time what your saying is nothing but speculation, if they did change the terms of the package this is also a change of your contract and as such you'd be free to go at this stage

No point worrying about something that will likely not happen...atleast not anytime soon, take Perlico as an example they've actually put up some of the caps on some of the packages since vodafone took over