North (A5) road route announced

IIMII

From Ireland.com, 21st July 2009
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0721/breaking34.htm

The preferred route for the A5 western corridor between Derry and the Border has been announced by Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey.
The dual carriageway between the border at Aughnacloy and Derry-Letterkenny will "make a world of difference to the accessibility and connectivity of thew hole northwest region of Ireland, to and from the rest of the island," Mr Dempsey said.
The route is part of a €580 million investment announced by the Irish Government in 2007, which included the A8 Larne to Belfast project. The Government is to issue a first payment of €9 million towards this project by the end of the year.
The Government's commitment to the project was reaffirmed at a North-South Ministerial Council plenary meeting on July 6th.
Mr Dempsey made the announcement with Minister for Regional Development in the Northern Ireland Executive Conor Murphy.
The economic and social benefits of the project for the region and the all island economy more than justified the investment and would "help to position us to avail of a return to economic growth," Mr Dempsey said
Construction of the road is expected to begin in 2012/2013 and it is due to be completed by 2015.
An environmental impact statement will need to be prepared before the planning process can be completed and land acquisition can begin.

Tech3

Here is the link to the map of the route:

A5 Preferred Route

Skyhater

This really frustrates me.... There is absolutely no strategic link up here. it's just politics.
How can the government invest part of €580million in this project and allow the Monaghan, Castleblayney and Carrickmacross bypasses be completed as non Duel-Carriageway????
I know the remaining bypasses on the N2 are being scoped as DC's, but the 3 Monaghan Bypasses have only been completed recently and will have to be retrofitted to DC in the future if Dempsey's intent is realised.

Skyhater

From DOT website:
This project is an important part of the overall major inter-urban network development strategy. That is, a full motorway and high quality dual carriageway network between Dublin, the M1 to the Border, Galway, Limerick, Cork and Waterford completed by the end of 2010. The A5 represents the last major piece of that inter-urban network.

Surly the N2 (or at least M1 >N33 > N2) will be the last piece of that inter-urban network????

mysterious

I never seen as much bends on a new motorway

The A5.

The town it ends on the border is like a horseshoe. Whoever is planning Irish roads should be murdered.


I'm tired of this. It's almost like it's deliberate. Make redicouluous route selctions so the route will not go ahead. The A5 motorway goes beside the old A5 the whole way. Is this the preferred route?


Ffs.

Tech3

Is there a reason for it to pass through the middle of Omagh?

mysterious

No.

This is how it is.
The planners got their pen out and drew on a map at free hand. They know its not going ahead. So they just spend their time wasting ink on paper hoping we all lap up to the idea " we are getting things done"


How many years have we been drawing these routes now?

Zoney

tech2 wrote: »

Is there a reason for it to pass through the middle of Omagh?

The red line is the existing A5. The planned route (black) does indeed bypass Omagh.

For Irish motorways which do have a fair amount of gradual curves (and this is probably no bad thing for environmental impact and driver attention) this doesn't look exceptional but for the odd divergance south of Omagh and the eastern bypass of Aughnacloy - which I presume there's a valid reason for (presumably western bypass is less feasible).

Tech3

Zoney wrote: »

The red line is the existing A5. The planned route (black) does indeed bypass Omagh.

For Irish motorways which do have a fair amount of gradual curves (and this is probably no bad thing for environmental impact and driver attention) this doesn't look exceptional but for the odd divergance south of Omagh and the eastern bypass of Aughnacloy - which I presume there's a valid reason for (presumably western bypass is less feasible).

Thanks, it looked like the black one was so curvy I though it was the existing road!!! Yeah there is not problem with curves too much of a straight road can make a journey too comfortable with less driver awareness and can cause accidents.

marmurr1916

@ mysterious: relax, they're only roads.

Your comments about winding routes don't make much sense. Would you prefer dead-straight Roman-style roads between any given two points in Ireland? We could build such roads but at what financial and environmental costs? If you draw a straight line between Dublin and Derry, you'd have to build a road through the Sperrin Mountains and probably through several existing villages too. The reason the Aughnacloy bypass section of the route curves is because it goes around Aughnacloy (i.e. it bypasses Aughnacloy), not straight through!

@ everyone else: I think the eastern bypass of Aughnacloy is to facilitate traffic joining from the A28 (Newry-Armagh-Aughnacloy) route.

DWCommuter

I hope the United Kingdom uses the Irish Republics 9 million well. I reckon its the last bit of cash it will be flinging towards this project.

Skyhater

mysterious wrote: »

I never seen as much bends on a new motorway

The A5.

The town it ends on the border is like a horseshoe. Whoever is planning Irish roads should be murdered.


I'm tired of this. It's almost like it's deliberate. Make redicouluous route selctions so the route will not go ahead. The A5 motorway goes beside the old A5 the whole way. Is this the preferred route?


Ffs.

Which Town are you talking about? Bit of specifics here would be nice. I assume you are talking about Aughnacloy.

I'm sure there are good reason for every turn in the road. (Probably based on local terrine, etc and the cost of CPO's).
If road planners were given proper budgets every road and junction in Ireland would be done properly.....most of the problems lies with the Budgets, not the planners (although I've see a few thick designs)

Also, It's not going to be a motorway....it will be a HQDC at best. Lets hope they go fully grade-separated. We don't need another A1 (So Dangerous with crossing traffic in wet conditions).

mysterious wrote: »

No.

This is how it is.
The planners got their pen out and drew on a map at free hand. They know its not going ahead. So they just spend their time wasting ink on paper hoping we all lap up to the idea " we are getting things done"

How many years have we been drawing these routes now?

PS Still waiting for your N2-M50 junction design. A man of your talent should have got a "pen out and drew on a map" by now

amacachi

DWCommuter wrote: »

I hope the United Kingdom uses the Irish Republics 9 million well. I reckon its the last bit of cash it will be flinging towards this project.

Aye, might get some nice leaflets printed.

Skyhater wrote: »

I'm sure there are good reason for every turn in the road. (Probably based on local terrine, etc and the cost of CPO's).
If road planners were given proper budgets every road and junction in Ireland would be done properly.....most of the problems lies with the Budgets, not the planners (although I've see a few thick designs)

Anyone who's been on the road or spent time in the area knows how poor a lot of the land out there is, tbh it's a bit of terrain I wouldn't like to have to find a new route through.

Skyhater

amacachi wrote: »

Anyone who's been on the road or spent time in the area knows how poor a lot of the land out there is, tbh it's a bit of terrain I wouldn't like to have to find a new route through.

Totally agree.... bet our mysterious friend rarely visited the area.

lucernarian

Funny that they announced the route today. I had travelled up to Derry and back a couple of weeks ago, and I saw the A5 realignment stuff around Ballygawley. I looked it up on the internet and came across the A5WTC website. So I saw the route options, and the associated PDF docs. The route seems the most sensible from what I have seen with my eyes and on the website.

But I can't think of why Aughnacloy is being bypassed on the eastern side. The terrain around the village itself was equally hilly and populated on either side I thought. But while it looks bad on a map, the roads going through Aughnacloy are so poor that there will be a speed gain no matter where the route goes.

IIMII

I'd say it goes east of Aughnacloy to cater for all the poor unfortunates that miss the M1/A1 exit for Dublin at Sprucefield in rain / darkness and end up there. Most ridiculous road layout in Ireland (Lisburn, not Aughnacloy)

SeanW

What have they got against motorways up North?we had to build N1/A1 HQDC between Drogheda and the Border because they didn't want the lower A1 M'ed and it looks like a similar DC only setup with this. Looks like they haven't built any Motorways up there since the '70s.

And yeah, wtf is with that bend in Aughnacloy? I'll admit I'm not familiar with the area but it looks like it would be better to bypass to the West and maybe cut in to the Republic sooner and a few km to the West as well by going as near as possible to due South. Rest of the route looks OK though.

Skyhater

IIMII wrote: »

I'd say it goes east of Aughnacloy to cater for all the poor unfortunates that miss the M1/A1 exit for Dublin at Sprucefield in rain / darkness and end up there. Most ridiculous road layout in Ireland (Lisburn, not Aughnacloy)

If you missed this junction It's like missing any other exit.... you misses the exit from the M1 to the A1 for Dublin (It's pretty well signed). I wouldn't call it a ridiculous road layout.
I fully admit that it was Unionist Politics that ran the M1 west rather south in the first place, and an All-Ireland road numbering system should be introduced to simplify things for everyone (especially tourists, etc).


Wesley Johnston's website outlines a pretty good proposal:

Appendix - An all-Ireland Numbering System

The above numbering scheme would not only greatly simplify the motorway system for drivers in Northern Ireland, but it would also be relatively easy to change it to an all-Ireland numbering system if the two authorities decided this was the right course of action to take. On such a small island, this makes sense from a traffic management point of view, but it is clear that the issue is more complex than this! The discussion below is from a purely traffic management perspective.

In such a scenario, the only duplicate motorway numbers are the M1 and M3 which are used for different motorways north and south of the border. As the M3 in Northern Ireland is so small, it should be subsumed into zone 1 and designated M13. This would be easy for motorists to handle, as it simply requires the insertion of a '1' into the existing number. This would solve one of the two duplication problems.

The two M1's could remain in co-existance for a longer time than this but, with a possible upgrade of the A1 in mind, there could come a point when the M1 would run from Belfast to Lisburn, then south along the A1 and on to Dublin. In this scenario, the portion of the existing Northern M1 from Lisburn to Dungannon would be re-designated the M10, itself quite a prestigious number. As Ireland's first motorway, the Northern M1 has already secured its place in history.

It is thus proposed that under an all-Ireland numbering system, the M3 at Belfast become the M13, the M1 from Belfast be redirected south along the A1 and the remainder of the northern M1 become the M10. This would create a fully integrated all-island numbering system with no duplication and with minimal confusion to travellers. No numbers at all would have to change in the Republic, unless the NRA ignored proposal 4 above, and except for a possible renumbering of junctions on the Irish M1.

IIMII

Skyhater wrote: »

I wouldn't call it a ridiculous road layout.
I fully admit that it was Unionist Politics that ran the M1 west rather south in the first place

That is why it is ridiculous - it's the Dublin Belfast road, and the current junction is a creation of petty politics

Skyhater wrote: »

If you missed this junction It's like missing any other exit.... you misses the exit from the M1 to the A1 for Dublin (It's pretty well signed).

It's better now then it was. Dublin used to be listed on it as if it were a village exit. But it should be simpler

ardmacha

That is why it is ridiculous - it's the Dublin Belfast road, and the current junction is a creation of petty politics

Whatever about decisions in the 1960s, the current junction is somewhat ridiculous and is a creation of bad planning. The earlier fairly straightforward junction has been messed up by plonking supermarkets on it, leading to the present bizarre design.

D'Peoples Voice

mysterious wrote: »

I never seen as much bends on a new motorway

The town it ends on the border is like a horseshoe.

The A5 motorway goes beside the old A5 the whole way. Is this the preferred route?

I can accept the current horsehoe around Aughnacloy iff there is intersection south of Aughnacloy with the A28(East) and both the B35 and B128 are redirected to converge on this same intersection.
I assume that the A28(West) shares an intersection North Of Aughnacloy.

As for the route via Omagh AND Newtownmountstewart, I guess it makes sense for connections to Lifford, the administrative centre/capital of Donegal.

nordydan

DWCommuter wrote: »

I hope the United Kingdom uses the Irish Republics 9 million well. I reckon its the last bit of cash it will be flinging towards this project.

Good stuff, the EU are looking their millions back for the M7 to Portlaoise. Perhaps you can shake on it

Redsoxfan

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

As for the route via Omagh AND Newtownmountstewart, I guess it makes sense for connections to Lifford, the administrative centre/capital of Donegal.

Plus Letterkenny and Ballybofey (there's not much administration done in Lifford anymore). The stretch of road from Omagh to Strabane is crap-even with the exisiting Newtonstewart bypass (a continuous curve where overtaking is frequently not possible), and so it makes sense (for anyone who knows the route/area) to run the new road alongside the existing road.

ardmacha

I assume that the A28(West) shares an intersection North Of Aughnacloy.

The A28 west could simply be downgraded and traffic directed via the A4.

The new route is OK, but some consideration should have given to running the Strabane Derry section on the west bank of the Foyle, better serving the city side of Derry and Letterkenny.

Redsoxfan

ardmacha wrote: »

The A28 west could simply be downgraded and traffic directed via the A4.

The new route is OK, but some consideration should have given to running the Strabane Derry section on the west bank of the Foyle, better serving the city side of Derry and Letterkenny.

The price of land could be an issue-east Donegal contains the best farming land in the county-I don't think ity would be a good idea to take it over for road building purposes when there is little good land in Donegal as it is.

Plus, you would need at least 1 new bridge (I guess you will be needing that in the future* anyway, assuming Strabane/Lifford to Manorcunningham is ever DC'ed)

*Distant future.

Victor

Official website http://www.a5wtc.com/Default.aspx

Options map http://la-systems.net/a5wtc2/

I suspect they are going east to Aughnacloy so as to reach the A28 (Newry-Armagh-Enniskillen) and not cross the border.

serfboard

Victor wrote: »

I suspect they are going east to Aughnacloy so as to reach the A28 (Newry-Armagh-Enniskillen) and not cross the border.

Exactly what I thought - even though it has some cross-border funding, this is not a cross-border project.

It also keeps alive the possibility of a DC from Newry ->Aughnacloy, thus providing the elusive "North-West Motorway".

Steviemak

serfboard wrote: »

Exactly what I thought - even though it has some cross-border funding, this is not a cross-border project.

It also keeps alive the possibility of a DC from Newry ->Aughnacloy, thus providing the elusive "North-West Motorway".

Very true. Newry ->Aughnacloy is about 50Kms while M1 at Ardee ->Aughnacloy is 80km plus.

There is definitely merit in a HQDC between Armagh and Newry regardless of anything else. And if that is built is a no brainer to connect it to Aughnacloy and the new A5.

D'Peoples Voice

Steviemak wrote: »

Very true. Newry ->Aughnacloy is about 50Kms while M1 at Ardee ->Aughnacloy is 80km plus.

There is definitely merit in a HQDC between Armagh and Newry regardless of anything else. And if that is built is a no brainer to connect it to Aughnacloy and the new A5.

eh lads, this is the same Roads Authority that built the M1 from Belfast to Moygashel instead of Armagh city, don't think logic or forward thinking is their forte!

L1011

nordydan wrote: »

Good stuff, the EU are looking their millions back for the M7 to Portlaoise. Perhaps you can shake on it

Explain?