Should a classic be modified in the interests of safety or preformance?

Run_to_da_hills

I thought I would start this thread as it seems a touchy subject with some purists. There are a lot of people out there with classic cars that like myself intend to use them on the main road rather than have them locked up in sheds and taken to shows on the back of transporters.

Some of these cars were designed when the average speed was less than 50MPH motors were grossly underpowered, poor suspension, inadequate brakes and poor 6 Volt lighting system. In order to enhance performance for todays traffic conditions many aftermarket manufacturers have developed various kits, 6 volt conversion, disk brakes, rack & pinion steering and IRS (independent rear suspension).

I cannot see a problem modifying a car if it enhances safety and performance.

trevorbrady

Three Blind Mice.

safety belts!!!!

an absolute must with the lunatics on the roads these days...

spidersonmars

Yes at all costs if it is to be used as regularly on the public road.

There is a point to uprating a classic or to do nothing. IMO it depends on how often the car is used on the road. If you have a classic that you only run from time to time, and it is all original, then I think it should be left alone. If on the other hand the car is use frequently and used to commute on motorways etc, then for both your own safety and the safety of others afew upgrades should be done. Tyres, Brakes and lights have all improved greatly. For my part I use my classic frequently on all sorts of roads. I really like to drive my car:eek: IMO if I am to do this safely then I believe that my car should be safe for me and other road users. It has modern brakes, modern lights and modern tyres. It may not be the purist choice but I'm more than happy with a car that drives better, stops better, and sees better. An untouched classic is what many of us aspire to, and thats a good thing, but if you are out on the roads a lot we should be aware that our cherished classics shouldn't be more dangerous than needs be.

ianobrien

Yes at all costs if it is to be used as regularly on the public road.

I'm lucky in that I've an Escort, and there are loads of both "gofaster" & "stop-better" bits out there for them.

I've left the suspension alone (it's a Ghia, not an RS), the gearing is still factory (cruises at 45-50mph, max speed 85mph - Out of revs!) even though a change of axle ratio was considered for a while. After all, it was designed as a cruiser, not a racer.

I've rebuilt the brakes, and I'm running Ferodo DS pads in the front in o/e calipers with Castrol Response brake fluid. When the brakes are hot, they work better than the brakes in my '05 Almera. Cold, they work as well, but I typically left foot brake to get heat into the brakes.

The engine is modified allright. We were rebuilding it and the head was sent to England to be converted to unleaded. It was Ported & Polished as well, and a custom cam came back as well. The bloke who did the head recommended one of his custom cams to match the head, and the engine snowballed from there. Result, the little 1.3 Escort is quicker than the 1.8 Primera at home to 70mph. Fuel consumption is a fraction higher now....

101sean

Yes at all costs if it is to be used as regularly on the public road.

I don't have a problem with modifying run of the mill classics provided there are still some originals in collections for future reference. There are many mods that can be carried out without altering the character or overall look of a vehicle to make it useable. Becomes a bit of a dillema with something very rare, is better wrapped up in a heated garage or out on the road being used with mods to suit todays conditions?

Also, no matter how we may cringe at something done to a car, the owner has a right to do what he likes with it (hopefully safely!:rolleyes:)

Max_Damage

Certain exceptions as long as it dose not change the appearance of the car.

Simple answer, no.

This country will end up like the USA where you have to modify your car with all those stupid safety bumpers and side lights nonsense just to have it registered over there.

Run_to_da_hills

Yes at all costs if it is to be used as regularly on the public road.

Max_Damage wrote: »

Simple answer, no.

This country will end up like the USA where you have to modify your car with all those stupid safety bumpers and side lights nonsense just to have it registered over there.

Theres a limit as long as it dose not change the outside appearance of the car / van and also that the job is reversible, Iin that you can bring it back to the original if you ever wanted.

Big Nasty

Yes at all costs if it is to be used as regularly on the public road.

I'm into American Muscle Cars that were built with going fast in a straight line in mind and nothing else bar the style. Brake and suspension upgrades are essential in these cars and make them so much better to enjoy on our lovely un-straight roads.

mustang68

Yes at all costs if it is to be used as regularly on the public road.

1968 Ford Mustang Coupe and I'm a believer in upgrades as I use it quite a bit:

• Manual Drum to Power Disc brakes
• Took off the carb and installed computer controlled fuel injection
• Uprated suspension
• Modern Headlights
• High back seat
• Seat belts
• Electric windows
• Alarm

Now the car is much nicer to drive, quick to start and safer. I have all of the replaced parts that are usable, so it can always go back to stock if needs be.

PaulK_CCI

depends on the specific example.

I would say most classics, upgrading in keeping with the appearance of the car is totally justified, expecially when safety, reliability and driver's enjoyment is going to be improved,

but i would have my reservations when it concerns, let's say, an ultra low mileage, original example owned by the 1st owner from new, with full history on it's first paint, etc,etc.. These cars deserve to be kept and cherished in as original as possible condition!

ianobrien

Yes at all costs if it is to be used as regularly on the public road.

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I would have left the carbs on and kept the manual windows. The rest I would defo have done. I love carbs i think modern computer controlled fuel injection has slightly ruined the feel of modern cars.

Ya, not much beats the sound of Webers on full chat......

Run_to_da_hills

Yes at all costs if it is to be used as regularly on the public road.

ianobrien wrote: »

Ya, not much beats the sound of Webers on full chat......

Same with bikes, all modern fuel injected systems are rubbish compared to vacuum and CV flat sided carbs.

gn3dr

Three Blind Mice.

ianobrien wrote: »

Ya, not much beats the sound of Webers on full chat......

Except for the sound of fuel injected throttle bodies on full chat.:)

mustang68

Yes at all costs if it is to be used as regularly on the public road.

gn3dr wrote: »

Except for the sound of fuel injected throttle bodies on full chat.:)

I thought I'd miss the noise of the carb, but I do have a throttle body injection, and I like the "phutt...phutt" sound of the injectors.

As time passes the technology that we find to mean something and be original moves on. I'm sure that there are drivers out there that think the best thing in the world was adjusting timing while driving, and abhor automatic timing.

"Nostalgia isn't what it used to be "

galwaytt

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Same with bikes, all modern fuel injected systems are rubbish compared to vacuum and CV flat sided carbs.

nonsense. Working on those for a living, constantly stripping and balancing (esp seldom-used stuff), multi-carbs is a complete pain.

That's one thing I love about my current H-D. FI is so, so civilised.

OP, I'd always update.

You're forgetting that the reason classics had what they had was.........because that was the tech of the day. Uprating brakes, suspension and lighting should be an automatic choice for an enthusiast, I'd say. Everything else is really down to personal taste.

I presume you mean modify-by-choice, btw, not mandated.....(not good)

gn3dr

Three Blind Mice.

galwaytt wrote: »

nonsense. Working on those for a living, constantly stripping and balancing (esp seldom-used stuff), multi-carbs is a complete pain.

That's one thing I love about my current H-D. FI is so, so civilised.

OP, I'd always update.

You're forgetting that the reason classics had what they had was.........because that was the tech of the day. Uprating brakes, suspension and lighting should be an automatic choice for an enthusiast, I'd say. Everything else is really down to personal taste.

I presume you mean modify-by-choice, btw, not mandated.....(not good)

Have to agree with you there. Carbs are always going to be a compromise. I can't understand why a car enthusiast would not want to get the best from an engine now that the technology is available and affordable.
Ok I understand for a very rare car why you'd want to keep in original - but that doesn't apply to a more regularly driven car. And any conversion to fuel injection is completely reversible anyway.

Run_to_da_hills

Yes at all costs if it is to be used as regularly on the public road.

galwaytt wrote: »

nonsense. Working on those for a living, constantly stripping and balancing (esp seldom-used stuff), multi-carbs is a complete pain.

That's one thing I love about my current H-D. FI is so, so civilised.

OP, I'd always update.

You're forgetting that the reason classics had what they had was.........because that was the tech of the day. Uprating brakes, suspension and lighting should be an automatic choice for an enthusiast, I'd say. Everything else is really down to personal taste.

I presume you mean modify-by-choice, btw, not mandated.....(not good)

On the other hand you have some electronic gizmo controlling your fuel system that when it lets you down in the middle of nowhere and you need a f**ing laptop and new pcb to get your bike started. :rolleyes:

unkel

Yes at all costs if it is to be used as regularly on the public road.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

On the other hand you have some electronic gizmo controlling your fuel system that when it lets you down in the middle of nowhere and you need a f**ing laptop and new pcb to get your bike started. :rolleyes:

Isn't it great that we all define classic cars in a different way?

I'm quite old, but maybe not as old as you. I learned to drive when cars had carburettors and one had to operate chokes. Things have come a long way since then. Perhaps I'm funny or lazy but I wouldn't even consider owning a classic car without fuel injection.

Run_to_da_hills

Yes at all costs if it is to be used as regularly on the public road.

unkel wrote: »

Isn't it great that we all define classic cars in a different way?

I'm quite old, but maybe not as old as you. I learned to drive when cars had carburettors and one had to operate chokes. Things have come a long way since then. Perhaps I'm funny or lazy but I wouldn't even consider owning a classic car without fuel injection.

Referring more to motorbikes with fuel injection in that post which would be a lot more recent than with cars.

Some classics cars came with automatic chokes.

ianobrien

Yes at all costs if it is to be used as regularly on the public road.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

.

Some classics cars came with automatic chokes.

Gee Imagine that - Automatic choke.......

My '77 Escort & (now deceased) '88 AX GT had manual chokes - imagine not having to push in the choke at the right time.....

galwaytt

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

On the other hand you have some electronic gizmo controlling your fuel system that when it lets you down in the middle of nowhere and you need a f**ing laptop and new pcb to get your bike started. :rolleyes:

You're over-exaggerating the FI on bikes - it's not as advanced as cars, tbh.

Take the FI used on BMW's for nigh-on 30 years. It's er........'fuel proof....... (sic...:rolleyes:) compared to the Bing carbs fitted to their predecessors, it's a model of reliability. It's FI, but it's actually low-tech.

As surely as alternators replaced dyanmos, and dynamos replaced magneto's, all this is merely evolution.