Garda decision not to serve a summons?

poss

I've been wondering about this one for a while.

Has there or would there, ever be circumstances where somebody is initially arrested by the Gardai..the suspect is not given a charge sheet or questioned (just held in the station), then released...but the suspect is told when leaving that they will be summoned...

...then after the six month issuing period of the summons, the Gardai decide not to serve it...due to (e.g. lack of incriminating CCTV evidence).

In other words, the Gardai would be of the opinion that the suspects solicitor would tear their evidence to pieces if the case got to court?

PCPhoto

might not be the decision of Gardai - could have been the DPP decided that there wasnt sufficient evidence for a prosecution..... maybe !!!

Our man in Havana

Often there would be directions from the DPP or Superintendent not to proceed.

cushtac

Gardaí have discretion, they can decide not to prosecute someone.

nuac

agree with Bond-007.

However the six months (which goes back to the Petty Sessions Act 1851 ) governs only the date of complaint on which the summons is issued. As long as the complaint is made within six months of the offence, the hearing date and actual service of the summons may be outside that date.

Further there are some offences where the period for the complaint is 12 months.

So do not relax just yet.

poss

nuac wrote: »

So do not relax just yet.

This is a personal query, not a personal situation.

poss

cushtac wrote: »

Gardaí have discretion, they can decide not to prosecute someone.

When the Gardai use their discretion, do they eventually inform the individual that they're not prosecuting them...instead of leaving the individual wondering about it?

Ashlinggnilsia

no the could well easily leave you wondering about it!! If the six month period was up i would just go in and ask them especially if i was worried about it!! I think dont quote me on it though but i think that say for example if hypothetically speakin you were to have assaulted someone or damaged property belonging to somone they have up to 2 or 3 years to push the charges....now im not 100% sure about that but for some reason i have that in my head

poss

Ashlinggnilsia wrote: »

no the could well easily leave you wondering about it!!

Well, if that's the case...and the Gardai don't bother their arse to let somebody know that they're not proceeding with it...

...then i'm pretty sure after a year and a half period, the offender will realise this, if the offender has not already completely forgotten about the incident....who knows?

Ashlinggnilsia

Tis all very confusing stuff!! They suit themselves and no-one else

Pat Mustard

poss wrote: »

Well, if that's the case...and the Gardai don't bother their arse to let somebody know that they're not proceeding with it...

...then i'm pretty sure after a year and a half period, the offender will realise this, if the offender has not already completely forgotten about the incident....who knows?

Sometimes they do let people know that they don't intend to prosecute. From what I have seen, this is in relation to quite minor offences, and where they decide to 'let the matter to civil remedy' or give a caution etc.

In the situation outlined by you, I think I would lie low and not go anywhere near them. Let sleeping dogs lie and all that.

poss

The Mustard wrote: »

Sometimes they do let people know that they don't intend to prosecute. From what I have seen, this is in relation to quite minor offences, and where they decide to 'let the matter to civil remedy' or give a caution etc.

Does this mean the lucky people who are actually lucky enough to be told that the Gardai that they won't be prosecuted, recieve a letter instead of a summons?...and how long would that take?
:rolleyes:

Pat Mustard

poss wrote: »

Does this mean the lucky people who are actually lucky enough to be told that the Gardai that they won't be prosecuted, recieve a letter instead of a summons?...and how long would that take?
:rolleyes:

I am aware of a situation where someone wrote a complaint to the Gardai about a particular matter. The Gardai initially wrote back to the complainant to the effect that they intended to let the matter rest with an adult caution of the 'villain'. I doubt the said villain got a letter from them.

Beyond that, your guess is as good as mine.

poss

The Mustard wrote: »

In the situation outlined by you, I think I would lie low and not go anywhere near them. Let sleeping dogs lie and all that.

You're probably right there.

This is in relation to a friend of mine, he got arrested a good while ago. He had a consultation with his solicitor a month after the incident he was arrested for...and initally his solicitor told him that he most probably would be summoned as he gave a two line statement to the arresting Garda at the time and signed it. (In the Garda's notebook).

My friend was brought from the shop he was arrested in to the local Garda station, along with CCTV footage from the shop he was in, which recorded the alleged incident.

In the conversation with his solicitor (a month afterwards), his solicitor asked him was he given a charge sheet or even questioned? My friend replied no. Then his solicitor asked him to demonstrate what happened in regards to the alleged incident, my friend showed him...then my friend's solicitor mentioned to him that there would possibly be an outside chance of the Gardai not summoning him at all, as trying to prove what happened 100% on the CCTV footage would probably be hard enough for the Gardai to prove conclusively.

My mate's still wondering, as this was an embarassing arrest for him. His solicitor told him he'd probably have to wait for months, but i suppose not hearing anything for a while is a positive for my mate.

If my mate is summoned, his solicitor told him he'd more than likely get the probation act (warned basically)...but he's still wondering about it all today.

poss

Was talking to my mate today at lunchtime, he told me that the arresting Gardai also told him to 'leave it with me'.

Could be a possibility that the Gardai are unsure about serving a summons or not.

Ashlinggnilsia

poss wrote: »

Was talking to my mate today at lunchtime, he told me that the arresting Gardai also told him to 'leave it with me'.

Could be a possibility that the Gardai are unsure about serving a summons or not.

no i would say he is just going to check out what this situation is with it and not assume either!!

Our man in Havana

You never know.

Always best to leave sleeping dogs lie.

sam34

as far as i know, if it's a non-indictable offence, they have 6 months to apply for teh summons and then a further 12 months to serve you with it.

if you wanted (and you're sure its a non-indictable offence!) once the six months are up you could ring the relevant district court office and ask if there has been a summons issued. you could also at this stage ask the relevant guard also, as he wouldnt be able to do anything about it so dont worry that you'd be reminding him.

Our man in Havana

Where does it say they must serve the summons within 12 months?

sam34

it was the info given to me by a solicitor when i was awaiting a threatened summons for a non-indictable offence. he was adamant that they had 6 months to apply for it and a further 12 to serve it, so 18 months in total.

thankfully mine never arrived!

TheDoc

I was arrested in Swords when I was a bit younger for a scrap. I was bout 17-18 and a friend of mine got a hiding from the local wannabe nacker club. So me and few mates who were playing cards got a phonecall and we strolled down the road and it kicked off.

I was taken with my friend down to the station. Was brought straight into what seemed to be an interrogation room, expected to have to do something, or get searched. Anyway they held us for about two hours then said we could go home, but we will probably be picked up by a Guarda Car in a few days to be brought back in.

I was infact brought back in, to be greeted by someone of authority, basically saying everything was sorted and that nothing further more was to come. I actually got the feeling they were happy enough we gave the scumbags a good beating, and they were not going to charge us.


I think it was generous on their part, as they did say to us getting this sort of charge on your file would hamper applying to visas in other countries etc, which my mate was actually going on in a few months time, so I think they just left it at that.

If thats what the general jist of the thread is?

drkpower

sam34 wrote: »

it was the info given to me by a solicitor when i was awaiting a threatened summons for a non-indictable offence. he was adamant that they had 6 months to apply for it and a further 12 to serve it, so 18 months in total.

thankfully mine never arrived!

jaysus sam, what have you been up to...?!:eek:

sam34

drkpower wrote: »

jaysus sam, what have you been up to...?!:eek:

PM sent

poss

sam34 wrote: »

as far as i know, if it's a non-indictable offence, they have 6 months to apply for teh summons and then a further 12 months to serve you with it.

As Bond says, i doubt what you're saying about the 12 months to serve it?

My mate was talking to his solicitor and he was talking about any possible summons arriving within/roughly a year from the date of the offence.

I think the whole thing here is as regards my mate, is the fact that his solicitor thinks the CCTV evidence may be hard for the Gardai to prove conclusively....there's a possibility he won't be summoned, just a possibility but it's there.

sam34

http://www.irishbar.ie/documents/publications/saraphelen.pdf

at the bottom of the first page it states that:

"a summons has a life span of twelve months and
remains valid during the currency of the twelve months
following the date of issue"

given that the summons could be issued any time in the six months after an offence, and remains valid for 12 months, there is then a period of 18 months after an offence during which you could be served with teh summons.

poss

sam34 wrote: »

http://www.irishbar.ie/documents/publications/saraphelen.pdf

at the bottom of the first page it states that:

"a summons has a life span of twelve months and
remains valid during the currency of the twelve months
following the date of issue"

given that the summons could be issued any time in the six months after an offence, and remains valid for 12 months, there is then a period of 18 months after an offence during which you could be served with teh summons.

Okay, fair enough.

I'm just assuming here, but if it's a day or two before the end of the 18 month period and my mate hears nothing, then chances are he'll be okay?..of course, i realise he still could be served with it just about within the time frame, but you'd still have to assume that the Gardai have decided not to prosecute.

sam34

poss wrote: »

Okay, fair enough.

I'm just assuming here, but if it's a day or two before the end of the 18 month period and my mate hears nothing, then chances are he'll be okay?..of course, i realise he still could be served with it just about within the time frame, but you'd still have to assume that the Gardai have decided not to prosecute.

oh id assume so. he'd be very unlucky to get served in the last week or so of the 18 months.
realistically most summons are served within a year of the offence, but theoretically the 18 month timeframe is there.

what he could always do is once the six months are up, ring the district court office and ask the clerk is there anything pending. they'll be able to do a search and tell him.

Jo King

sam34 wrote: »

http://www.irishbar.ie/documents/publications/saraphelen.pdf

at the bottom of the first page it states that:

"a summons has a life span of twelve months and
remains valid during the currency of the twelve months
following the date of issue"

given that the summons could be issued any time in the six months after an offence, and remains valid for 12 months, there is then a period of 18 months after an offence during which you could be served with teh summons.

That article is referring to civil summonses namely Plenary Summons in the High Court. It is nothing to do with the summons for a criminal offence.
In the case of a summons for a criminal offence it depends on whether or not the offence is summary or indictable. In the case of a summary offence the summons must be applied for within six months of the date of the alleged offence. It may be issued after the six months and must be served at least seven days before the return date on the summons. The return date will usually be no more than a few months after the issue date which itself will be no more than a few months after the application date.
Unless there is a difficulty with service the return date should be less than 12 months from the alleged date of the offence.
If the offence is indictable or capable of being tried on indictment there is no time limit and the summons can be applied for at any time.
There is an overall requirement of fairness and if the process is too slow the defence can and sometimes succeed in arguing that because of delay they cannot get a fair hearing.

sam34

apologies , my mistake, thought it referred to summons in general.

poss

Yeah, i thought so.

As i said, my mate's solicitor said he may or may not be served with a summons, and if they were issuing a summons to him it would be within or maybe less than a year, from the date of the offence.

poss

sam34 wrote: »

what he could always do is once the six months are up, ring the district court office and ask the clerk is there anything pending. they'll be able to do a search and tell him.

Just a personal opinion here, but crikey...i wouldn't be doing that at all.

As another poster has said, let sleeping dogs lie...absolutely.

sam34

poss wrote: »

Just a personal opinion here, but crikey...i wouldn't be doing that at all.

As another poster has said, let sleeping dogs lie...absolutely.

it'd be safe enough to do, as once the six months is up the guard cant apply for a summons, so if it hasnt been applied for by then hes in the clear.

might just put the mind at rest a bit!

poss

Jo King wrote: »

Unless there is a difficulty with service the return date should be less than 12 months from the alleged date of the offence.

Thanks for that, if he hears nothing just before or after the 12 month period he should be okay.

John5

poss wrote: »

In the conversation with his solicitor (a month afterwards), his solicitor asked him was he given a charge sheet or even questioned? My friend replied no. Then his solicitor asked him to demonstrate what happened in regards to the alleged incident, my friend showed him...then my friend's solicitor mentioned to him that there would possibly be an outside chance of the Gardai not summoning him at all, as trying to prove what happened 100% on the CCTV footage would probably be hard enough for the Gardai to prove conclusively.

Interesting.

I do think the fact that your friend wasn't given a charge sheet or questioned, and also the fact that your friend hasn't heard from the Gardai as of yet, could be a plus for him.

...if the CCTV footage is in-conclusive, the Gardai may not pursue it.

His solicitor wouldn't have mentioned this to him in the first place. It would be difficult for the Gardai to summon him if he or his solicitor could contest the footage and say he was doing something else.

Even if your friend admitted the incident in the first place, he could change his plea if this got to court.

As other posters have stated, let sleeping dogs lie.

John5

poss wrote: »

My mate's still wondering, as this was an embarassing arrest for him. His solicitor told him he'd probably have to wait for months, but i suppose not hearing anything for a while is a positive for my mate.

If my mate is summoned, his solicitor told him he'd more than likely get the probation act (warned basically)...but he's still wondering about it all today.

If i was in your friend's position, i wouldn't be wondering/worrying about the outcome at all.

I'm presuming this is his first offence, so if his solicitor thinks he'll recieve the probation act/ fine/ possibly community service etc...then what's the point in spending a year or so wondering about the possible arrival of a summons? He'll drive himself mad otherwise, just go with the flow.

It is a positive that your mate hasn't heard anything yet, and his solicitor wouldn't have given him this advice in the first place.

It does sound to me like the Gardai are contemplating if they should issue a summons on the CCTV evidence, or not. The longer the silence goes on from them the better.

poss

John5 wrote: »

I'm presuming this is his first offence, so if his solicitor thinks he'll recieve the probation act/ fine/ possibly community service etc...then what's the point in spending a year or so wondering about the possible arrival of a summons? He'll drive himself mad otherwise, just go with the flow.

Yeah, you're right.

He regrets what happened, but you're correct, his solicitor is the legal professional who's told him he's likely to recieve a warning as it's first offence....so why wonder or worry yourself sick for a year or more over it?

In fact, if he's not summoned it will be a waste of a year if he's constantly worried about it over the 12 months.

Cheers mate, i'll have a word with him next time i see him.;)

John5

No problem at all.

Just my personal opinion, but if this was my first offence..and after consulting my solicitor, it was likely that i'd be getting a warning (probation act, if i was summoned eventually)...

...or possibly not getting a summons at all, i would refuse to worry myself sick about it.

Don't get me wrong, of course it would cross my mind now and then, but it's pointless in letting it rule your life for a year.

Personally, i think your friend is probably feeling helpless as this situation is out of his control somewhat..but there's nothing he can do about it. Once he accepts it, he'll be okay.

He can deal with it once he's summoned, and then he can put it behind him. Then again, he may end up with no summons to deal with at all.

He'll be allright.;)

Lisa6

poss wrote: »

I've been wondering about this one for a while.

Has there or would there, ever be circumstances where somebody is initially arrested by the Gardai..the suspect is not given a charge sheet or questioned (just held in the station), then released...but the suspect is told when leaving that they will be summoned...

...then after the six month issuing period of the summons, the Gardai decide not to serve it...due to (e.g. lack of incriminating CCTV evidence).

In other words, the Gardai would be of the opinion that the suspects solicitor would tear their evidence to pieces if the case got to court?

It depends on how the Gardai view the CCTV footage, if it's debatable they probably won't pursue it. As another poster has said, if the suspect and his solicitor could claim he was doing something else it probably wouldn't be risked as evidence. Also, even if the suspect did admit he commited an offence, he could easily change his plea, absolutely.

I'm thinking the reason a charge sheet wasn't given is that the Gardai will be looking at the footage deciding if they should or shouldn't summon the person.

I would reassure your friend on this though, the worst case situation will be that he's eventually summoned, etc. With a first offence the judge would be looking to see if the person genuinely regrets what happened, maybe getting help (maybe counselling) so they won't re-offend, etc.

Your mate would possibly recieve a fine/ community service etc..but more likely he'll be warned (Probation Act)...

...but as has been said, there's so many cases in the pipeline it could well be a year before he's possibly summoned, so it's pointless worrying really if his solicitor thinks he'll be warned.

In saying all that though, it's a good thing for him he hasn't heard anything as yet. I know a couple of friends of mine who were told by Gardai that they would be summoned and never were, it happens.

poss

John5 wrote: »

No problem at all.

Just my personal opinion, but if this was my first offence..and after consulting my solicitor, it was likely that i'd be getting a warning (probation act, if i was summoned eventually)...

...or possibly not getting a summons at all, i would refuse to worry myself sick about it.

Don't get me wrong, of course it would cross my mind now and then, but it's pointless in letting it rule your life for a year.

I've told him that, it's good advice.

I think that you've got to do that, for the sake of your own sanity.

John5

As we're talking about a first offence, unless it's a really serious offence...the judge will be looking to see if the person genuinely regrets the incident and is helping themselves etc (e.g. counselling possibly).

The Probation Act would be likely.