Valve Say: Let gamers fund the games

pixelburp

http://kotaku.com/5318368/valve-let-fans-fund-games-development

Gabe Newell wrote:

One of the areas that I am super interested in right now is how we can do financing from the community. So right now, what typically happens is you have this budget - it needs to be huge, it has to be $10m - $30m, and it has to be all available at the beginning of the project. There's a huge amount of risk associated with those dollars and decisions have to be incredibly conservative.

What I think would be much better would be if the community could finance the games. In other words, ‘Hey, I really like this idea you have. I'll be an early investor in that and, as a result, at a later point I may make a return on that product, but I'll also get a copy of that game.'

So move financing from something that occurs between a publisher and a developer… Instead have it be something where funding is coming out of community for games and game concepts they really like.

I must say it's an interesting idea, and with game budgets spiralling out of control, it inevitably is the consumer that foots the bill. Not sure how practical an idea like this might be though (and it certainly wouldn't guarantee an increase in quality).

Kinetic^

I believe there's an Irish guy who is doing something like this. I'll find more details and post back here.

giggsy664

So, the gamers fund the game so the developers can make a game for them to play.

But the gamers might make a return on it and will get a copy of the game only if the game is completed. Could work.

Why not make the devs release the code written so far multiple ways through the developing of the game, so those who contributed can try their hand at making the rest of the game?

projectmayhem

giggsy664 wrote: »

So, the gamers fund the game so the developers can make a game for them to play.

But the gamers might make a return on it and will get a copy of the game only if the game is completed. Could work.

Why not make the devs release the code written so far multiple ways through the developing of the game, so those who contributed can try their hand at making the rest of the game?

The problem there is that you have to be careful. You create a huge game element like the gravity gun, release some code to your "investors" and then it gets leaked for the next EA/Ubisoft title to steal.

The other issue is that, in general, I would imagine most gamers have no real idea's. We bitch, moan & complain about everything but don't have anything constructive to offer.

If gamers made games they'd be a Halo/Wii Fit/Gran Turismo hybrid mess that does nothing to satisfy your gaming needs, have 16 hour episodic content released hourly for four months and completely fail on a tech level because the graphics are better then god intended real life to look.

Genghiz Cohen

giggsy664 wrote: »

Why not make the devs release the code written so far multiple ways through the developing of the game, so those who contributed can try their hand at making the rest of the game?

No.
Leave the professional development to the professionals.
Besides, imagine Crytek opened the Crysis engine, what half decent game studio is going to show it's competitors how they get the results they get?

Although, investing in a game is a nice idea. Could lead to a lot of butt-hurt fanbois when the next Halo/whatever flops and they had $100 riding on it.

SeantheMan

IF i were to invest, it would probably only be in a well established developer with a good background.

Unfortunately thats bad news for the little guy

I.e , If valve were to say....we have this idea...id say..hmm, half life2, portal, team fortress 2, left4dead ??...Heres my moneyz !!

Genghiz Cohen

SeantheMan wrote: »

IF i were to invest, it would probably only be in a well established developer with a good background.

Unfortunately thats bad news for the little guy

The little guy won't need a big budget though.

pixelburp

SeantheMan wrote: »

IF i were to invest, it would probably only be in a well established developer with a good background.

Unfortunately thats bad news for the little guy

I.e , If valve were to say....we have this idea...id say..hmm, half life2, portal, team fortress 2, left4dead ??...Heres my moneyz !!

See, I would be the opposite of that; I would be more eager to plough my money into a small / indie developer than a huge Goliath-publisher like EA. They hardly need my money.

Retr0gamer

Isn't this just the stock market all over again?

indough

pixelburp wrote: »

See, I would be the opposite of that; I would be more eager to plough my money into a small / indie developer than a huge Goliath-publisher like EA. They hardly need my money.

wouldnt the money go straight to the developers though, and not the publisher?

thelordofcheese

pixelburp wrote: »

http://kotaku.com/5318368/valve-let-fans-fund-games-development



I must say it's an interesting idea, and with game budgets spiralling out of control, it inevitably is the consumer that foots the bill. Not sure how practical an idea like this might be though (and it certainly wouldn't guarantee an increase in quality).

Bluegh... publishers are enough of a pain in the arse to deal with without being beholden to "fans".

Moriarty

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Isn't this just the stock market all over again?

Bingo.

pixelburp

indough wrote: »

wouldnt the money go straight to the developers though, and not the publisher?

Well I guess that depends on the set-up involved. For something like Braid I presume the idea would be to directly fund the cottage-developers, rather than the publishers.

indough

i was just making my assumption based on the last sentence of the quote really

L31mr0d

Sounds like he's talking about a typical push-pull strategy similar to say Dell.

It will work for sequels imo. Have the first title funded normally, but for sequels, this could be like a very early pre-booking of a game. I know if this was an option for HL3 I'd go for it.

I'd say a lot of gamers already know they will be paying for a game, even if its only in early development. I know I'll be buying HL3 and I haven't even seen any footage of it yet.

Overheal

This seems like a terrible idea. Mostly for legal and IP implications. Who decides how much return I get? Do I get any copy rights? etc.

Retr0gamer

Why don't they all make good games, advertise them properly and not oversaturate the market before christmas.

Sierra Oscar

Ohh missed this thread - full interview info here.

Skeptical of the idea myself, its great for devs - terrible sounding for the "investor".

thelordofcheese

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Why don't they all make good games, advertise them properly and not oversaturate the market before christmas.

because we're too busy building a machine that will cure cancer and give everyone free icecream

The crux of the issue is getting it to run on the laughter of unicorns.

The Mad Hatter

There's an English film company doing something similar at the moment. They're getting members of the public to buy production rights in a film for a pound each. Wish I could remember the title of the film...

Basically the more you buy, the more control you'll have, but I think that the number of purchasers will be so widespread that the director will have much more control. Probably. Which is ultimately a good thing.

Kinetic^

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Isn't this just the stock market all over again?

This. It's not like I give Superquinn money so I can eat their food. Gabe needs to stfu.

OctavarIan

A band called Marillion have done this before for an album. Basically their fans bought the album before Marillion started making it, then Marillion used that money to fund the making and publishing of the album themselves, totally cutting out any label influence/pressure. It's sort of like a very advanced pre-order.

I think a system like that would be terrible for videogames though. Very few people would buy indie games, not enough would buy the AAA titles (don't most of the 'big' titles usually make a loss anyway?) and people would be hesitant to buy new IPs so it would encourage more sequel making which is very bad indeed.

It's no wonder Valve are proposing the idea though, they'd have no problem getting advance pre-orders with the fanbase they have.

Sierra Oscar

OctavarIan wrote: »

It's sort of like a very advanced pre-order.

Thats how I view it. Only usually you get your money back from a retailer if a pre-ordered game is canceled.

Personally, I would let others invest and take the risk - and just buy the game if it does see the light of day.

In any case, Gabe has often come up with odd and even ridiculous business ideas - does not mean they get implemented.

Overheal

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Thats how I view it. Only usually you get your money back from a retailer if a pre-ordered game is canceled.

which is another awful facet: games that ought to be cancelled are not: and terrible buggy unpolished shyte gets published for want of not having to refund thousands of pre-orders.

CutzEr

In soviet russia - Valve pays you!

Nodin

pixelburp wrote: »

http://kotaku.com/5318368/valve-let-fans-fund-games-development

I must say it's an interesting idea, and with game budgets spiralling out of control, it inevitably is the consumer that foots the bill. Not sure how practical an idea like this might be though (and it certainly wouldn't guarantee an increase in quality).

Can't see it happening. Theres not going to be many of the gaming demographic willing to fork over funds for some unknown quantity that will be 3-5 years down the line. It might work for some revered franchise like halflife, but outside of that......

thebman

Its a crap idea TBH. It would be fine if it could work but it won't ever work.

Who is going to pay for vapourware?

As someone else said DNF is proof enough that this idea is unworkable. Hell L4D2 is probably enough proof for many people.

I think this idea requires trust which nobody can have in a company. Too open to scum who would abuse it.

komodosp

In fairness to game companies, games have not inflated in price one bit since the days of the megadrive and the like. They were about £40 then and they're about €40 now. (maybe 50 or 60 for console games). And I'd be willing to bet they cost a lot more to make now than they did then. Granted the market is bigger now... but then you see, within about a year, the game on the "Bargain" shelf or drastically reduced in price.

Then there's the matter of piracy... A lot of people are hardly willing to pay for a game after they're developed, what'll they be like if they have to pay before development has even begun?

And of course there's the problem that you only decide to buy a game after you find out how good it is... How will they be able to convince us to pay for it before we've had a chance to read the reviews or hear from our friends etc.? It'll be the ultimate example of the marketting selling the game rather than the quality of the game itself.

5uspect

Is this a step towards Steam becoming a subscription service?

Devs make demos that you pay for, the most popular of which get made.
I imagine anyone who invests gets a discount as thier return?

thelordofcheese

komodosp wrote: »

And of course there's the problem that you only decide to buy a game after you find out how good it is... How will they be able to convince us to pay for it before we've had a chance to read the reviews or hear from our friends etc.? It'll be the ultimate example of the marketting selling the game rather than the quality of the game itself.

I don't think you understand the concept of investing.

You pay the money in advance based on how well you think the product (or company) will do, it's nothing got to do with the actual quality, but rather what you predict the quality will be.


But you have hit on another flaw, gamers, being people just like anyone else are, by and large, greedy shits.
When they can justify stealing games to themselves, i think it'd be very hard to get them to part with money on the promise that they might get some small return on investment if the project gets completed and turns enough of a profit. Maybe.
Oh and the game might be shit.

The only way this might work is for smaller indie games. Dwarf fortress and Mount and Blade have something similar in place already, but if anyone honestly thinks this would work for anything beyond that, they're mental.

thebman

komodosp wrote: »

In fairness to game companies, games have not inflated in price one bit since the days of the megadrive and the like. They were about £40 then and they're about €40 now. (maybe 50 or 60 for console games). And I'd be willing to bet they cost a lot more to make now than they did then. Granted the market is bigger now... but then you see, within about a year, the game on the "Bargain" shelf or drastically reduced in price.

Then there's the matter of piracy... A lot of people are hardly willing to pay for a game after they're developed, what'll they be like if they have to pay before development has even begun?

And of course there's the problem that you only decide to buy a game after you find out how good it is... How will they be able to convince us to pay for it before we've had a chance to read the reviews or hear from our friends etc.? It'll be the ultimate example of the marketting selling the game rather than the quality of the game itself.

In fairness some games took like a week to make back then so it is more likely we were getting ripped off more back then. Games descended in price back then too.

I remember getting loads of C64 games for £5. Few games go down to that price these days.

I think places like HMV etc... reducing prices to 45 euro as soon as a problem occurs in the economy kind of shows the mark up that is there for the big chains that are buying in bulk so retail price probably isn't the best way to judge profitability.

The reality is game production has become more like Hollywood and costs a lot with big returns if done right. If your not willing to put in the effort, you make a smaller investment and make an XBLA game or PSN game etc.. or a Flash game and sell it to sites or put it on their own with advertising.

Loads of options open to developers ATM. I don't think he was seriously suggesting this as a way to go because it can't possibly work but it is more his dream of how it would work in a perfect world.