Intel (IFO) up the creek with no P804addle

me_right_one

Looks like its in trouble. Its on the radio that 500 people are going, thats all of IFO. Tomorrow will be the big day! Any employees on boards hear anything new? Intel Leixlip is now 3rd in line for 1270. Methinks the writing is on the wall. What a blow that will be for my country

leeroybrown

To me it sounds like you're jumping the gun slightly on this one. The only media report I've come across is indicating that Intel have said that the costs of doing business in Ireland are prohibitive at the moment and that they'll be revisiting the issue later in the year. No additional job cuts were mentioned.

That said, I do expect IFO to be downsized at some stage. The cost of doing business here is extremely high (even for high-end wafer fab.) and the logistics of upgrading Fab10/Fab14 aren't pretty.

Raskolnikov

leeroybrown wrote: »

The cost of doing business here is extremely high (even for high-end wafer fab.)

I don't know about Israel, but when I worked there, the Irish worker was cheaper than the American one.

leeroybrown

Raskolnikov wrote: »

I don't know about Israel, but when I worked there, the Irish worker was cheaper than the American one.

Unless things have changed one of the major issues they have is out of control industrial electrical costs. When you have your own dedicated 110KVA electrical substation that has a demand capacity forecast of 81MW peak (65MW valley) you're spending a tremendous amount of money on electricity. You could pass €10k per hour if that capacity is fully utilised.

me_right_one

leeroybrown wrote: »

To me it sounds like you're jumping the gun slightly on this one.

I sincerely hope so, but lets just say I have insider info

leeroybrown

me_right_one wrote: »

I sincerely hope so, but lets just say I have insider info

Hopefully! That said, I wouldn't be hugely confident either. My own reading of the situation is that IFO isn't all that great a position due to a range of different factors. Realistically, Intel have to make a decision about it's future in the short term (1-6 months) so I'd expect some news quite soon. I've seen quite a few scare-mongering threads about Intel and I'd just prefer to err on the factual side of that line.

leeroybrown

Interestingly, this article (SiliconRepublic) that I was sent earlier today has since been edited, removing the extra paragraph that claimed that there was no imminent danger to 400-500 jobs!

me_right_one

Watch this space, I'd say there'll be something big happening today!

damnyanks

Generally public companies like to do this right before their earnings call. I didnt read intels report last week but they'd of mentioned some 'strategy' which is basically code for cutting people and in which groups.

Check that out.

Raskolnikov

me_right_one wrote: »

Watch this space, I'd say there'll be something big happening today!

Heard 320 are to go. Given that previous batches have been voluntary, I would hope that they could find enough volunteers to take redundancy.

Cionád

296 to go I hear. Not voluntary. Engineers are excluded apparently.

omahaid

There we have it

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0721/intel.html

294 to go

Tech Overhaul

Cionád wrote: »

296 to go I hear. Not voluntary. Engineers are excluded apparently.

You were close, only out by 2!

I don't think its right that they pick on the MTs and leave the engineers off the hook.

leeroybrown

Tech Overhaul wrote: »

I don't think its right that they pick on the MTs and leave the engineers off the hook.

In a redundancy situation business need and not "right" is typically the deciding factor. If they're making 294 redundant I'd expect them to have to take those numbers across various different positions from the top down. There's no way that it'll just be the MTs getting it in the neck.

What's worse is that my reading of this would be that there'll be no new Intel investment in Ireland in the short term and that IFO will be closed eventually. I'd suspect that Fab24 will get a new process in the medium term but the net effect will be a much reduced Intel manufacturing presence.

On top of this I'd expect secondary knock-on job losses that we won't see in the media. There are lots of other companies contracted providing everything from cleaning services right through to high-end technical services, all of whom will probably need to let bodies go too.

ongarite

Agree with leeroybrown in everything he has said.

Thats a lot of jobs gone from direct Intel employees this year, around 600 people (900 people let go in the last 18 months) along with at least the same in indirect employees (contractors, suppliers), it is a huge blow for Intel Ireland.
In know first hannd, that a huge amount of contractor, supplier jobs have been slashed since July with ending, cancelling of contracts.

FAB14 is closed now with the 294 jobs gone & FAB10 days have to be numbered at this stage.
Intel Israel looks to be the favourite for future investment with its very generous grants & tax breaks and lower energy costs which Intel Ireland can't compete with due to EU rules & high industrial energy costs.

me_right_one

leeroybrown wrote: »

To me it sounds like you're jumping the gun slightly on this one.

leeroybrown wrote: »

In a redundancy situation business need and not "right" is typically the deciding factor. If they're making 294 redundant I'd expect them to have to take those numbers across various different positions from the top down. There's no way that it'll just be the MTs getting it in the neck.

Leeroybrown, I wasnt jumping anything. 294 to go. And the engineers are escaping completely scott free.

leeroybrown wrote: »

You were close, only out by 2!
I don't think its right that they pick on the MTs and leave the engineers off the hook.

Bang-on Tech Overhaul.


There's obvioulsy some people on here who work at the coal-face in Intel. One thing that really gets my goat is people who haven't a clue acting like they're an authority on the subjuect.

This is real life for upwards of 600 people who are at risk. Please be sensitive to that.

Unless you actually know what you're talking about, please dont spout opinionated sh1te adding fuel to the fire, @ everyone.


Facts: 294 to go, engineers exempt. IFO only. - Discuss

leeroybrown

me_right_one wrote: »

Leeroybrown, I wasnt jumping anything.

You missed my point. Every so often a thread shows up here (and on other forums) where a poster claims that big job losses are coming up. Not too long ago someone turned up here on Boards and claimed that 1000 people were to be laid off by mid Autumn. Your original post fell into that category.

me_right_one wrote: »

Bang-on Tech Overhaul.

One minor niggle. Could you edit the post so that the quote is from Tech Overhaul not me.

leeroybrown

me_right_one wrote: »

Facts: 294 to go, engineers exempt. IFO only. - Discuss

Add to that the fact that they're compulsory unlike the previous voluntary rounds that Intel have run. If 294 people are let go from IFO only it's an enormous scaling back there. Much as I hate to say it, I can't see Intel running such a large scale and expensive set of redundancies then turning around to re-invest in the kind of short time scale that IFO would really need it. In my opinion, there are a lot of factors that aren't particularly in IFO's favour.

With the numbers involved I'd also expect that the jobs will have to be drawn from more than MTs. Otherwise they'll be left with a factory with managers, supervisors, engineers, fab support and about a shift worth of people moving lot boxes around. I think that the 'engineers' thing is a side issue. When I worked for Intel I always found that there was an almost irrational dislike of the Engineers by the MTs. I'm not entirely surprised that they're seen as sneaking by.

milanac

Any word on the package yet??

robbie111

milanac wrote: »

Any word on the package yet??

Package same as vsp 6 + 2 weeks for every year.
Heard though they will be giving a extra 6-7 k voucher to be used for further education!

leeroybrown

I've got a question for people still at Intel:

If I think of the most positive (realistic) outcome from this, it's probably a situation where the reduced IFO workforce continue to operate in Fab10 with the potential for investment in a Fab14 refit in future. The remaining staff would then be moved over to the refitted Fab once it's ready. Does this sound like a realistic situation based on what's going on on the ground in Leixlip?

It would also make sense of the fact that zero Engineers are being left go

ongarite

leeroybrown wrote: »

I've got a question for people still at Intel:

If I think of the most positive (realistic) outcome from this, it's probably a situation where the reduced IFO workforce continue to operate in Fab10 with the potential for investment in a Fab14 refit in future. The remaining staff would then be moved over to the refitted Fab once it's ready. Does this sound like a realistic situation based on what's going on on the ground in Leixlip?

It would also make sense of the fact that zero Engineers are being left go

From what I have seen and heard on the ground, I would put that outcome at the very optimistic end of the scale. It certainly was the plan to that Intel Ireland were hoping and pitching for but things have changed in the last 12 months worldwide & at Intel.

More realistic outcome would be FAB14 close in Septmeber, FAB10 close in 1-2 years time & FAB24 (hopefully) gets retrofit to next generation process.

Its the lowest cost solution and most likely IMO.

kravmaga

What I thought was interesting in the press release was the amount of people they say are still working at Intel, 4,500 ee's...

Eh I dont think so, this is the PR machine at it best

I would say 3,000 maybe direct and indirectly

leeroybrown

It's funny. Throughout the various VSPs and now this one half the news stories have continued to say that 5,000 are employed onsite. I think it's mostly down to lazy media who'll print anything that comes from a semi-official source.

At it's height, the total head count onsite probably passed 5,500 about five years ago if you include the Fab24(2) construction team. Since then it's been steadily decreasing for the most part. I've got no idea what the current figure is but it certainly isn't 4500.

Raskolnikov

leeroybrown wrote: »

potential for investment in a Fab14 refit in future.

There is almost no chance of that happening, especially with Israel and Arizona being ahead of Ireland in the pecking order.

The real decider in this is the global recession. Remember, Fab 24 (indeed, many Fab's) is not running at full capacity. If global demand doesn't pick up, it obviously doesn't make sense for Intel to be running with so much spare capacity. If cuts have to be made, Ireland would be a target in that scenario.

leeroybrown

Raskolnikov wrote: »

There is almost no chance of that happening, especially with Israel and Arizona being ahead of Ireland in the pecking order.

Unfortunately, if I'm being realistic rather than positive, I'd have to agree. I'd say that the scenario that I suggested back on page one is closer to the truth. As you point, Israel and Arizona are ahead of Ireland for 1270, with this likely to stay this way due to electicity costs and the level of financial support available in each case. Leixlip may be left waiting for 1272 before it gets new investment, and that's quite a while away.

ongarite

One thing that no-one has mentioned yet is that technically (at a trade level), not geographical level, Intel has 2 manufacturing facilities in the EU.
The point was made in previous Intel threads that if Intel closed Irish site, it would prevent free trade in EU & import duties would be liable.
The EU-Israel Association Agreement means that has Israel has free trade in EU for industrial products including semi-conductor industry.

Isreali government gave $600M grant for latest Intel FAB 28 aswell as cheap energy costs & soon to be lower than Ireland corportation tax rates.
Irish government tried to give Intel €120M grant for FAB24-2 and was forced to give back all but €12M, our industrial energy costs are way way too high; Intel has its own power sub-station.

If you were an accountant which most CEO now at big companies, why would you invest in Ireland when Israel holds all the aces.

Raskolnikov

ongarite wrote: »

Isreali government gave $600M grant for latest Intel FAB 28 aswell as cheap energy costs & soon to be lower than Ireland corportation tax rates.

Read about that today, another blow to possible investment in the future.

artful_codger

a nuclear energy station would solve two problems here... cheaper energy and creating jobs during its construction

not saying i'm for it, but it would have to be looked at.

ongarite

artful_codger wrote: »

a nuclear energy station would solve two problems here... cheaper energy and creating jobs during its construction

not saying i'm for it, but it would have to be looked at.

You read my mind. Nuclear is the only option for this country to provide cheap base-load energy for heavy industry. Every first-world country with industrial base has nuclear energy.
Wind & wave power are supplemental power options, they can't provide the always on power at flick of switch power that gas, oil, nuclear can.

Bulmers

ongarite wrote: »

You read my mind. Nuclear is the only option for this country to provide cheap base-load energy for heavy industry. Every first-world country with industrial base has nuclear energy.
Wind & wave power are supplemental power options, they can't provide the always on power at flick of switch power that gas, oil, nuclear can.

Ireland is too small for nuclear power stations, you need at least 4 or 5 of them interconnected in a mesh to have stable power grid as nuclear power stations are very unreliable and breakdown alot...and are very expensive so scale of economy is not there either..

Nuclear is the way to go...I just wish people would realise this now rather than later

I can't bear this pricking about with wind and wave energy - it is all pie in the sky stuff.

Even if it was feasible to build wind/wave farms in the west, the electricity network along the western seaboard will have to upgraded.

Have you seen the size of the pylons beside the large generating stations??

Imagine trying to build that type of infrastructure in scenic Connemara :eek:

IvyTheTerrible

salonfire wrote: »

Nuclear is the way to go...I just wish people would realise this now rather than later

I can't bear this pricking about with wind and wave energy - it is all pie in the sky stuff.

Even if it was feasible to build wind/wave farms in the west, the electricity network along the western seaboard will have to upgraded.

Have you seen the size of the pylons beside the large generating stations??

Imagine trying to build that type of infrastructure in scenic Connemara :eek:

Wouldn't the grid have to be upgraded for nuclear too? And they have huge pylons beside them too.

whippo_1

whtf...forget the nuclear thing, its not going to happen..

I originally started a thread with regards to this topic as 'Whippo'. I got banned by some demonic glitch, julie or captain oblivious, (not sure which, doesn't matter really, it was for a different issue). captain oblivious closed the ' Looks like Intel are set for a mass Involuntary Redundancy ' thread, based on the fact that nothing was actually announced, (so much for opinions on a forum!!!). captain oblivious then reopened the thread, saying he was right to close it initially because he thought the thread would be worring people!!!! The moderator then proceeded to ask a question on whether or not speculation should/shouldn't be allowed on job losses.........

Leeroybrown, then posted expressing that there was another active thread (a later posted thread with regards to the same issue... ie; this thread) after which captain oblivious, quote ' Ah cheers, didn't notice the other thread. I'll close this one again!'.

In all fairness, I have seen some posts/threads on this forum that are not very palatable and sometimes in complete and utter bad taste... and here we have a moderator expressing worry over a post!!!

Reopen the other thread oblivious, I think you were out of order to close the thread initially and completly out of order to close the same thread for a second time based on what looks like an element of "save face"..

Is there anyway or any procedure to complain against moderators?
Who monitors the monitors?

eth0_

whippo_1 wrote: »

I originally started a thread with regards to this topic as 'Whippo'. I got banned by some demonic glitch, julie or captain oblivious, (not sure which, doesn't matter really, it was for a different issue).

FYI, ban evasion by re-registering is a permanent ban offense.

whippo_1

eth0_ wrote: »

FYI, ban evasion by re-registering is a permanent ban offense.

...only getting around to this now. I am of the opinion that moderators a have double standards on this forum. In one hand, and I received a PM from a mod that freedom of opinion was not accepted on a certain post, then in the other hand people are allowed post threads with titles like "God is a prick", wtf, get you're acts in order mods/admins.

Etho, you were quick enough to point out that re-registering was an offence, thank you. Why didn't you respond to my questions?

leeroybrown

whippo_1 wrote: »

...only getting around to this now. I am of the opinion that moderators a have double standards on this forum. In one hand, and I received a PM from a mod that freedom of opinion was not accepted on a certain post, then in the other hand people are allowed post threads with titles like "God is a prick", wtf, get you're acts in order mods/admins.

Different forums on Boards have different charters, moderation policies and levels of tolerance. Work & Jobs is a fairly serious forum. If someone turns up and with their first post claims makes a partially informed claim that up to 1000 jobs are to go, I think it's only right that the moderators question their motives. So what if you turned out to be partially correct...

whippo_1

leeroybrown wrote: »

Different forums on Boards have different charters, moderation policies and levels of tolerance. Work & Jobs is a fairly serious forum. If someone turns up and with their first post claims makes a partially informed claim that up to 1000 jobs are to go, I think it's only right that the moderators question their motives. So what if you turned out to be partially correct...

...for what you posted leeroybrown, thank you. Work and jobs, is a very serious topic, and will always be a contentious subject. This petty boards site is a contradiction in terms, (double standards, via mods and admins plus all the other nasties). My buts are buts, a forum is either a forum or not. Yes, my determination of job reduction in that plant was out by some 66% ...now, as for your quote on, 'So what if you turned out to be partially corrert'... It was not my motive to flex a brain, please re-read the (my) original posts. The 294 that are being removed from Intel, I think are the lucky ones, the 120 odd that are remaining in IFO, well, lets say job satisfaction will not be number one.

*** So what if you turned out to be partially correct...***, cop on...

whippo_1

***Is there anyway or any procedure to complain against moderators?
Who monitors the monitors?***

by the way, question still holds.

leeroybrown

whippo_1 wrote: »

***Is there anyway or any procedure to complain against moderators?
Who monitors the monitors?***

The Help Desk forum and Feedback forum (open discussion) are the usual spots.

whippo_1

leeroybrown wrote: »

The Help Desk forum and Feedback forum (open discussion) are the usual spots.

Again, thank you, (at the risk of nerd trolling, I think its called).

thebman

whippo_1 wrote: »

...only getting around to this now. I am of the opinion that moderators a have double standards on this forum. In one hand, and I received a PM from a mod that freedom of opinion was not accepted on a certain post, then in the other hand people are allowed post threads with titles like "God is a prick", wtf, get you're acts in order mods/admins.

Etho, you were quick enough to point out that re-registering was an offence, thank you. Why didn't you respond to my questions?

As others have said, the religion forum isn't really as serious a forum as this for most people.

Religion forums is people having a go at each other and as nobody can be proved right and no organization can claim to own a particular god, there is probably zero chance of legal action over what is said there.

If someone comes on here and says Intel are pulling out in 2010 fact and they aren't, it could get boards into trouble with Intel and it will scare the crap out of Intel's employees that use boards needlessly so it needs a different level of moderation.

Its perfectly acceptable to have different levels of moderation depending on the forum IMO. Go post FG are shutting down and pulling out of the country on the politics forum and see what happens :pac:

bitethebullet

whippo_1 wrote: »

The 294 that are being removed from Intel, I think are the lucky ones, the 120 odd that are remaining in IFO, well, lets say job satisfaction will not be number one.

I empathize with you completely regarding the ban. But let's get back on track...what do you mean by the above?

whippo_1

bitethebullet wrote: »

I empathize with you completely regarding the ban. But let's get back on track...what do you mean by the above?

.... Mods, can you please close this thread? If, the above post is not a media speculator, I do not know what is? Lets forget the whole Intel thing.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

whippo_1 banned for:

a) Questioning mod decisions in thread rather than on feedback
b) Re-registering an account to get around a ban
c) Calling me a prick in a PM he/she sent me from his previous account

whippo_2

Captain Obvious wrote: »

whippo_1 banned for:

a) Questioning mod decisions in thread rather than on feedback
b) Re-registering an account to get around a ban
c) Calling me a prick in a PM he/she sent me from his previous account

a) You're a dictator, why cant you be questioned whatever way a poster wants to?
b) Guilty
c) Sorry for disgracing a part of male anatomy by comparing you to it. I really meant to say that you were a complete fcuking wnaker!!!

eth0_

whippo_2 wrote: »

a) You're a dictator, why cant you be questioned whatever way a poster wants to?
b) Guilty
c) Sorry for disgracing a part of male anatomy by comparing you to it. I really meant to say that you were a complete fcuking wnaker!!!

Now that i've permanently banned you, perhaps you could work on getting a life.

GoneShootin

eth0_ wrote: »

Now that i've permanently banned you, perhaps you could work on getting a life.

/me waits for whippo_3

bitethebullet

whippo_1 wrote: »

.... Mods, can you please close this thread? If, the above post is not a media speculator, I do not know what is? Lets forget the whole Intel thing.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:Couldn't be further from the truth m8