Consistency of Modding?

boardswalker

Are there any rules or guidelines for Mods? I find it very hard to understand some decisions and there seems to be little consistency. Mods seem to make up or change the rules as they go along.

In March of last year, I was unhappy with a thread in the Galway forum. I thought some postings were nasty and poked fun at specific named individuals. I pm’d a mod and basically got nowhere.

I identified the specific thread to the mod. The reply I got was “The best thing to do if you find something offensive, or legally dodgy, is to report the post (little button with the exclamation mark) to bring it to the direct attention of the moderators of a particular forum.” While I had not used that button, I thought I had just brought the thread to the attention of a mod. There was no obvious way to appeal the decision and I did not think there was any point.

Anyway, nothing happened. The thread had about 200 posts when I flagged it. It has now reached well over 500 posts - with many still quite unpleasant.

This year I noticed that a similar thread on the Limerick forum was closed very early with the comment that “Threads of this nature have always being locked, ever since the forum was created. Nothing has changed here. If you want to point and laugh at individual homeless people or alcoholics, do it somewhere else”

I went back to the Galway thread and reported it again – this time using the button. This time it was closed. Why did it take 16 months to see that it was a nasty thread. Why was this type of thread ok on the Galway forum but not on the Limerick forum. The means of reporting the thread is hardly relevant here.

Secondly, the offensive posts have not been removed. The thread is just closed. The posts remain for all to see. If the posts were about a large corporate with good lawyers – you know who I mean - it would have been shut down long ago. But it's about mentally or physically handicapped so nothing is done.

sceptre

It would help me greatly if you linked to the threads you're referring to.

Without me knowing that I can only answer the question vaguely.

Particular boards have their own local rules (largely identified in the forum charters), their own ethos and their own culture. It's entirely possible that what would be allowed in one forum would not be allowed in another.

Reporting the post via the report post button is the best way of bring a problem post to the attention of the moderators. Using that method rather than sending a PM has three additional advantages:
1. It notifies all moderators of the forum, not just one (or none, it's quite easy to send a PM to the wrong person by mistake)
2. It creates a record of the notification, beneficial for the member, the mods and the forum as a whole
3. It can also indirectly bring the report to the attention of the admins - that record that is created is accessible to the site administrators (obviously there are hundreds of posts reported daily but that oversight is created by the action)

In the absence of particular links, that's about as good as you'll get with a particular answer.

And with all due respect, it might have moved a bit faster had you not waited 16 months before clicking on the little button to formally report the post/thread. Clicking on it 16 months earlier might have produced a result that was 16 months faster. I don't know the precise circumstances but you appear to have been handed the avenue for reporting over a year before you used it.

boardswalker

sceptre wrote: »

It would help me greatly if you linked to the threads you're referring to.

In the Galway forum the thread was the strange characters of Galway City. In the Limerick forum the relevant thread was Limerick Characters.

sceptre wrote: »

Particular boards have their own local rules (largely identified in the forum charters), their own ethos and their own culture. It's entirely possible that what would be allowed in one forum would not be allowed in another.

That's a cop out. There must be some fundamental rules that apply across all forums. For example, its not allowed to poke fun at named people who have physical or mental disadvantage. It can't just be a free for all. The Limerick Mods response was excellent - very clear, prompt and there seemed to be a fundamental principle regarding what was acceptable or not.

sceptre wrote: »

Reporting the post via the report post button is the best way of bring a problem post to the attention of the moderators. ....In the absence of particular links, that's about as good as you'll get with a particular answer.

With all due respect, this is hiding behind a technicality. I reported it to a mod and it was very clear what thread I was referring to.

Secondly, its not about me or an answer for me. It was about the individuals who were being poked fun at.

Finally, the guidance for the Report Button is clear that the button is "ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising messages, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts". The original post was neither spam, advertising nor harrassment, fighting or rude. If anything it was defamatory or plain nasty.

sceptre wrote: »

And with all due respect, it might have moved a bit faster had you not waited 16 months before clicking on the little button to formally report the post/thread. Clicking on it 16 months earlier might have produced a result that was 16 months faster. I don't know the precise circumstances but you appear to have been handed the avenue for reporting over a year before you used it.

The point here is that the Mod's response indicated that you were not interested and not going to do anything about it. The Mod was getting annoyed with me for raising it.

I was very unhappy with that thread but I did not believe that there was anything would be done until a similar thread was dealt with very differently on the Limerick Forum. Only then was it clear that there could be differences between mods as to what was acceptable. Again, with a forum like this you would expect some consistency - even if only to protect against legal challenges.

It seems to me that the mods sometimes make the rules up as they go along.

Compare the two threads. Why did no one else consider the Galway thread a problem when similar posting were clearly a problem, and accepted by all as a problem, on the Limerick Forum? Was it only up to me to highlight this issue? What were the Galway Mods doing? What is the role of the Mod if not to spot posts/threads like that? What were the rest of the Boards team doing?

Plaese, dealt with the key point and stop hiding behind technicalities.

The Sweeper

The key point is that people can say what they please within reason. Definitions of reason change between forums. Mods behave accordingly.

boardswalker

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

The key point is that people can say what they please within reason. Definitions of reason change between forums. Mods behave accordingly.

Have you looked at the relevant thread? Are you seriously suggesting that the content was within reason? Here's a sample

From 21/4/07
Sample comment removed.

From 26/4/07
Sample comment removed

From 28/4/07
Sample comment removed

30/4/07
Sample comment removed

30/4/07
Sample comment removed

10/6/07
Sample comment removed

What was reasonable about those - and there were lots more like that. Photos and names of alchoholics, homeless, mentally and physically challenged. How could any one think that's reasonable comment?

Compare that with the comment of the Limerick mod on 20/12/07.
"There have been threads on this, and like this one,they turned into lists of people who society has left by the wayside, homeless people, alcoholics and people who were left on the scrapheap."

Within reason is short for within reasonable limits. There are limits. Is Boards seriously saying that the comments in the thread were reasonable?

sceptre

Hey

Meant to come back to you earlier but had other things to be doing.

Found the threads but given that they weren't direct links I ended up finding more than two. There have actually been a few in both forums that have been left run, some with a large number of posts in both forums, some are even still open.

With regard to the comments above, no, those aren't what I'd consider acceptable. Given that mods don't necessarily read every post on their forums I can see how they may have been missed. I do know that none of those posts were reported, not a single one. In case you're thinking that I'm, what was the quote again, "hiding behind technicalities", I'm not. The simple fact is that with the 15-20,000 posts boards gets on an average day, moderators rely heavily on reported posts. I certainly don't have time to read 20,000 posts daily, neither does the whole admin team and even the moderators reply on the help of people willing to report posts. Sometimes it takes an extra view from members in addition to that of the moderators to emphasise something for them.

Just FYI, I can actually see two reports from you - the more recent one (on July 18 of this year) pointing out the problems with the whole thread and one from March 3, 2008, raising the issue of a libellous comment in one post. Not a post you've listed above but the libellous aspect of the post was removed following the report, four minutes after you made the report. When formal reports are made, they're actioned and dealt with. Anything less is far less likely to get actioned or be dealt with. It's the reason the system is set up the way it is. It's got oversight and reports are recorded. It avoids hearsay and everything is verifiable.

You may not like the system (I assume not given that you reported one post, then the thread a year later and came here with posts from 27 months ago after the thread has been locked) but as long as individual posts are reported, it acts as an aid to moderation and administration that can't be underestimated. As someone who also mods the pretty busy Politics forum (and there's no way in hell that I read every post there), it's always helpful when people report the offensive posts. It's far more useful when they do than when they don't.

boardswalker

sceptre wrote: »

With regard to the comments above, no, those aren't what I'd consider acceptable.

Firstly, thanks for acknowledging that the sample comments I posted are not acceptable. Thats the first time anyone from Boards has accepted that and I appreciate it.

I sometimes feel like a crank for raising these issues but I wonder if Boards is aware that they may well have legal liability for comments on the site, even where the comments are make by posters rather than by boards staff. I am not a lawyer but there is plenty of information available about online defamation and you should be aware of it.

I like boards, and while I can see that there are areas where discussion is little more than pub or street corner talk, there are others where people freely help each other and I would hate to lose that element. Now that boards is part owned by daft.ie, you are a more likely target for legal action. Previously you may have been considered an enhanced students gaming forum. Now you are backed by a fairly prominent name in Irish business. I think you would do well to take more care.

To deal now with some specific points.

sceptre wrote: »

Found the threads but given that they weren't direct links I ended up finding more than two.

I did a search in the Galway for "Strange Characters of Galway City" and that thread ranked first. So I gave specific information on my first report. The thread was easily found if someone wanted to.

sceptre wrote: »

Given that mods don't necessarily read every post on their forums I can see how they may have been missed.

I accept that there is a difficulty with the volume of posts. I did not realise they were so high.

However, you should realise that many mods posted to the Galway thread - no necessarily Galway Mods, but Mods nonetheless. Have a look at posts #5, #30, #47, #50, #52, #54, #56, #58 and thats just on the first three pages. I would expect that those mods read the thread to which they contributed.

By the way, until this morning I had not realised that the Mod (a Cmod - don't know what that means) that I had pm'ed back in March 08 was actaully a poster on the thread. It's little wonder then that he/she found nothing wrong with the thread.

It would seem that Mods are not being made aware of the risks or of what to pay attention to.

sceptre wrote: »

Just FYI, I can actually see two reports from you - the more recent one (on July 18 of this year) pointing out the problems with the whole thread and one from March 3, 2008, raising the issue of a libellous comment in one post.

For the record, the 3 March 08 post, did more than just raised the issues of a libellous comment.

The report was headed "Questioning safety of some posts."

The first half of the report reads
"Can you explain if there are any rules governing posts on the Galway City forum? Right now there is a thread on Galway Characters which contains postings that, I am sure, some of the individuals named would find offensive. For example, there is an allegation about named individuals groping people on buses. Putting the laws to one side, I think that some of these posts are a bit nasty and I am surprised that they are tolerated."

I think this was more than simply highlighting one libellous comment. It asked the same question about modding standards that I am still asking 16 months on.

sceptre wrote: »

but as long as individual posts are reported, it acts as an aid to moderation and administration that can't be underestimated. ....it's always helpful when people report the offensive posts. It's far more useful when they do than when they don't.

I accept that now, and I understand better the difficulties you have. Again, I thank you again for agreeing that some of the posts on the Galway thread are unacceptable.

This brings me back to the original question - and a question that I have raised several times but that has not been dealt with - the conistency of the Modding. How are standards set and how are standards enforced? I would be worried that Boards will get hammered some day if you don't tighten up. I also think advice re reporting should be much less ambiguous. For example the message on the report button is clear about what it should be used for and its not reporting defamatory or libellous posts.

Finally, why have the offensive posts not been removed from the Galway thread? Closing the thread is fine but as long as the posts remain, damage can be done. And you are now aware of it.

I don't intend to say any more on this. Its your forum and your liability. If I see posts that I think offensive, defamatory, unfair or nasty I will report them, using the button even though its ONLY for spam etc.