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Has the 2009 strike helped Cork hurling?

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  • 19-07-2009 10:57am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 15,117 ✭✭✭✭


    Tipp 1-19 Cork 0-19
    Cork 3-19 Offaly 1-12
    Galway 1-19 Cork 0-15

    So, a fairly disappointing campaign in the Rebel county, with the only victory coming against a weak Offaly side with a solitary threat. Have things really moved on since the strike?

    Whatever the reasons for their grievances, the decision to stop playing under Gerald McCarthy showed a massive disrespect for the man and the league. Can anybody say things would have been worse in this seasons championship had McCarthy still been in charge, and the "2008 panel" (for want of a better phrase) on the pitch? The problem, it seems to me, wasn't with McCarthy or the managerial selection process but was more to do with the current team being on a downward spiral and struggling to grasp that reality.

    And what for the future? Can anyone see the current crop of youngsters challenging Kilkenny, Tipp, Galway (or even Dublin) for All-Irelands over the coming years?
    Tagged:


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    NO

    simple really.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Erin Go Brath


    The strike is a red herring. The harsh reality is that Cork are an aging team and just simply not as good as they used to be. They are heavily dependent on Ben O'Connor to pull them out of the mire, but Ben brilliant and as he is, is just one man.

    Cork need new blood and plenty of it. It will (i'd imagine) be the end of the road for a few players, and a time for rebuilding. Not sure how Cork are performing with underage, but i'd imagine there has to be plenty of young talent in a county like Cork. Cork have the biggest hurling following in the country and they won't be happy with the way Cork limped tamely out of the C'ship this year.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 15,247 Mod ✭✭✭✭rebel girl 15


    Ageing team? average age of the team last night was 26, so that really cannot be called an aging team. they are on the road a long time, but I think they will have a good break now, and the hunger will be back next year. 3/4 made championship debuts, which is good. With a proper pre season, without the hassle of previous year, I think they can bounce back somewhat

    The underage structures are not good enough, lack of success at underage level, poor quality coaching and coach education. We need regional development squads from under 12 upwards - there are squads coming together at 15, 16 and 17 level, but needs to be earlier. The best players are not necessarily on these squads either, which hinders them

    The 09 strike has shown that u cannot put 15 new players into a team and hope for results. remember that denis walsh has had three months in charge, which is not enough. there hasn't been enough change at CB level, and I think the clubs will have something to say come December. We need to forget about the strike, a lot of supporters have put it behind them, and need to unite behind the players


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭KerranJast


    The strike was more about the future of Cork hurling than this season. Too early to tell if it was worth making the stand.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,031 ✭✭✭lukin


    Ageing team? average age of the team last night was 26, so that really cannot be called an aging team. they are on the road a long time, but I think they will have a good break now, and the hunger will be back next year. 3/4 made championship debuts, which is good. With a proper pre season, without the hassle of previous year, I think they can bounce back somewhat
    Wouldn't agree with you there, I forecast a barren spell for Cork hurling, for how long I don't know though.
    The underage structures are not good enough, lack of success at underage level, poor quality coaching and coach education. We need regional development squads from under 12 upwards - there are squads coming together at 15, 16 and 17 level, but needs to be earlier. The best players are not necessarily on these squads either, which hinders them

    Agree with this, KK have this system where they spot the best hurlers at 12 and 13 and start developing them from that age on.
    We should be doing this too but the county Board won't as they are always right in everything they do.
    Some would say that comparing Cork with KK is not a fair comparison 'cause they only have hurling there, Tomas O' Leary opted for rugby and he was an excellent forward on the AI-winning Cork minor hurling team of 2001 (imagine what a difference he might have made if he was on the pitch last night).


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    We have some long overdue and partial improvements regarding youth structure forced on the Cork County board by Croker, so I would say yes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,307 ✭✭✭cruiserweight


    Orizio wrote: »
    We have some long overdue and partial improvements regarding youth structure forced on the Cork County board by Croker, so I would say yes.

    If that is the criteria for whether it was a success or not then it is far to early to tell, we will have to wait a few years at least before we know.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    If that is the criteria for whether it was a success or not then it is far to early to tell, we will have to wait a few years at least before we know.

    What they have put in place is only a foundation, and alone won't have enough of effect unless we act further. What I wrote yesterday...
    More generally, the result and perfomance is a result of a far greater malaise in Cork GAA that has left our hurlers right in a middle of a barren period that may take years to get out of. Very simply, we haven't produced a truly great underage team since the 2001 All-Ireland Minor winners. Since that team, we have produced three geniunely excellent young players - Eoin Cadogan (maybe not at full-back however), Shane O'Neill and Pa Horgan - that's it. 3 great prospects in 8 years. Moreover, our minors this year were destroyed by a Tipp team that was destroyed by Waterford. Conor O'Sullivan, Tadgh Og Murphy etc may come good in time but the general point is that in terms of youth development, structure and investment we are a decade behind the likes of Tipperary, Galway, Kilkenny, Dublin and, if this years results are anything to go by, even the likes of Clare and Waterford. What we must produce to get anywhere near another All-Ireland is a few underage All-Ireland's in a row, something we have barely even looked like achieving this year.
    For the future, we need a complete overhaul or our underage system - lads with any potential need to be taken away from 12 years up for a dozen or so training sessions per year with full time coaches, taught about nutrition, health etc and have the basics of hurling burned into their skulls. We need development squads at every age group Under-12 to senior level. We need far more training seminars in every club in the county, the general standard of coaching is very often pathetic. This is only, I might add, what they do in Dublin GAA - we need to do this, at the minimum, to begin to catch up. Regarding burnout, I'm inclined to think their should be no competitive competitions before Under-14 level - only blitzes which have eight or ten a side games to ensure greater participation, while Minors should not be allowed play senior with their club, a ban that could even be extended to Under-21's playing senior, mnors playing under 21 etc.

    ...would be a start. I don't see a lot of this happening with the current lot running the show in the Pairc, their actions seem to be a matter of getting Croker off their back.

    Regardless, Cork Hurling, and I'm inclined to the think our Footballers have little chance of winning anything of note, is stuck right in the middle of a barren period that we won't get out of for half a decade and only then if we start producing All-Ireland hurling winning teams.


  • Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭davestar


    Galway 1-19 Cork 0-15


    NO


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22 jimmym


    after all the crap that went on in the strike it was up to the players to
    "walk the walk" they failed,maybe people will now
    realise gerald was not sole reason for corks poor form,
    too many so called marquee players have been poor for
    last 3 yrs,we are miles behind kk and tipp
    in developing new talent,
    co board seriously at fault,


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭derealbadger


    the strke was about the big ego of three or four of corks veterans and everyone in the countrywas glad to see them bet the way they treated McCarty was horrible and a lot of people in cork were glad to see them bet last night to for that reason


  • Registered Users Posts: 695 ✭✭✭TheSpecialOne


    and the players blamed gerald for their inability to challenge over his reign as manager....its worth saying that geralds much slated cork team got further under him in the championship than the cork team without him....i wonder who they'll blame next!


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,591 ✭✭✭✭Aidric


    and the players blamed gerald for their inability to challenge over his reign as manager....its worth saying that geralds much slated cork team got further under him in the championship than the cork team without him....i wonder who they'll blame next!
    They are a laughable bunch really. They certainly won't be getting much sympathy from anyone outside the county in any case.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    Aidric wrote: »
    They are a laughable bunch really. They certainly won't be getting much sympathy from anyone outside the county in any case.

    Oh dear, how will we carry on...:D;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,591 ✭✭✭✭Aidric


    Orizio wrote: »
    Oh dear, how will we carry on...:D;)
    I don't know tbh. :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    Aidric wrote: »
    I don't know tbh. :P

    Mass suicide, everyone in the Lee...;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,031 ✭✭✭lukin


    Aidric wrote: »
    They are a laughable bunch really. They certainly won't be getting much sympathy from anyone outside the county in any case.

    I don't think Cork people are looking for sympathy from anyone. The strike was an internal affair anyway, I didn't entirely agree with it myself but I don't see what damage it did to the GAA outside of Cork.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,430 ✭✭✭run_Forrest_run


    I certainly don't think the strike had any impact on the team's performance in the Championship, they don't have the players at the moment. The fact that yer man Aisake was left on for the full game says it all really, dropping balls, theatrical falls, totally useless.


  • Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭sidelines


    I certainly don't think the strike had any impact on the team's performance in the Championship, they don't have the players at the moment. The fact that yer man Aisake was left on for the full game says it all really, dropping balls, theatrical falls, totally useless.


    Yes the 'theatrical falls' were some joke - my mother was watching the match and asking if he was going to be the Drogba of hurling


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭derealbadger


    how many of them will retire this year


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,220 ✭✭✭✭Lex Luthor


    and the players blamed gerald for their inability to challenge over his reign as manager....its worth saying that geralds much slated cork team got further under him in the championship than the cork team without him....

    yip, you're right there


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,220 ✭✭✭✭Lex Luthor


    how many of them will retire this year

    hopefully ALL of them


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 61 ✭✭Hacks


    It obviously didn't do Cork hurling any good if they're out of the Championship in mid July !!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8 gallant1


    They should of concentrated on the hurling and try to match Kilkennys intensity but na Cusack and co decided that Gerald and the county board were to blame for everything and went on strike.The good of Cork hurling my hole ,if they didnt want to play under Gerald they should of just retired and ****ed off back to their clubs .Cork hurling is bigger than any group of players .Denis Walsh now have to blood new fellas and put three or four into retirement if they dont go themselves .Just remember JBMs time he blooded the young and looked what happened


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22 jimmym


    gallant1 wrote: »
    They should of concentrated on the hurling and try to match Kilkennys intensity but na Cusack and co decided that Gerald and the county board were to blame for everything and went on strike.The good of Cork hurling my hole ,if they didnt want to play under Gerald they should of just retired and ****ed off back to their clubs .Cork hurling is bigger than any group of players .Denis Walsh now have to blood new fellas and put three or four into retirement if they dont go themselves .Just remember JBMs time he blooded the young and looked what happened

    well said gallant1, my thoughts exactly, big egos,this cork team has been
    sliding for 3 years,people who went on marches will follow these
    players blindly,at end of day they werent good enough


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭allthedoyles


    well as in all games , you need to keep your eye on the ball at all times .

    Cork players took their eye off the ball and lost focus .


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    Hacks wrote: »
    It obviously didn't do Cork hurling any good if they're out of the Championship in mid July !!

    It obviously did do Cork GAA good as we, finally and very belatedly, have permanent youth develpoment officers in place, and the CCB is generally being forced into action by Croker.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,908 ✭✭✭Daysha


    Orizio wrote: »
    It obviously did do Cork GAA good as we, finally and very belatedly, have permanent youth develpoment officers in place, and the CCB is generally being forced into action by Croker.

    Was that really the aim of the 08 panel though, to implement permanent youth development officers? It's not Gerald McCarthys fault that youth structures in the county is a mess.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,430 ✭✭✭run_Forrest_run


    Daysha wrote: »
    Was that really the aim of the 08 panel though, to implement permanent youth development officers? It's not Gerald McCarthys fault that youth structures in the county is a mess.

    very good point Daysha, suddenly it's about youth structures, next they will be blaming global warming on poor Gerarld;)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    Daysha wrote: »
    Was that really the aim of the 08 panel though, to implement permanent youth development officers? It's not Gerald McCarthys fault that youth structures in the county is a mess.

    Not sure really, but there is little doubt the strike had a very positive effect, even if unintended, to Cork GAA regarding underage structure.

    Cork 5-24 Waterford 3-09 btw. :D


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