magnetic bracelets

bungaro

hi,
i broke my arm a few years back and have pins still in both bones which get really sore from time to time (like when the weather changes rapidly) so i'm thinking of trying out those magnetic bracelets, anyone here ever use one and recommend it?? also just wondering is it only chemists who sell them??
cheers

RobFowl

bungaro wrote: »

hi,
i broke my arm a few years back and have pins still in both bones which get really sore from time to time (like when the weather changes rapidly) so i'm thinking of trying out those magnetic bracelets, anyone here ever use one and recommend it?? also just wondering is it only chemists who sell them??
cheers

No evidence they work at all. No research, no evidence and beware any product which uses consumer reviews only.
If you want to try them its you're choice

bungaro

thanks for the reply rob.

just wondering if anyone uses anything else for arthritis pain??? don't want to break the rules of the forum and look for medications, i'm more looking for alternative approaches

RobFowl

I take glucosamine (OA elbow following a fracture). There is limited evidence for it though. It calssified as a drug over 1500mgs in Ireland but below that is available OTC. I'd go with a pharmacy due to quality control issue.
Hope this does not constitutepersonal advice !
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/283/11/1469
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/354/8/795

keiran110

On the contrary, theres plenty of results showing the positive effects of glucosamine. I can give a brief medical explanation explaining how it positively effects the body and its joints if you`d like.
I recently recommended it for my mother whos bad knees got to the point where she couldnt walk without being in pain. She back motoring around the place!

As for magnetic bracelets, Ive no idea do many medical trials exist. I really cant see many trials existing to be honest. However, the Romans used magnetic bracelets for arthritis and they formed the basis of medicine as we know it today! Those Romans were absolute geniuses when it came to medicine, so that in itself may be a good enough proof for some people to use the bracelets.
Id still be aprehensive though.
Worth a shot though isnt it?

keiran110

O, and I've seen those bracelets outside chemists also. They are also available in health shops.

Calibos

Have you investigated Reiki. Practioners are versed in the ancient Jedi arts and can use "The Force" to get rid of your pain.

nesf

keiran110 wrote: »

Those Romans were absolute geniuses when it came to medicine, so that in itself may be a good enough proof for some people to use the bracelets.

It was because of this attitude that anatomical mistakes by Galen weren't corrected until the sixteenth century despite them being obvious.

Just because someone a long time ago did something is not a very good reason to do it. Tradition seems to be hard wired into the brain, we as a species seem to be intuitively trustful of old things and old beliefs but really this is a very bad way to do many things, medicine and science in general being particular examples.

tallaght01

keiran110 wrote: »

On the contrary, theres plenty of results showing the positive effects of glucosamine. I can give a brief medical explanation explaining how it positively effects the body and its joints if you`d like.
I recently recommended it for my mother whos bad knees got to the point where she couldnt walk without being in pain. She back motoring around the place!

As for magnetic bracelets, Ive no idea do many medical trials exist. I really cant see many trials existing to be honest. However, the Romans used magnetic bracelets for arthritis and they formed the basis of medicine as we know it today! Those Romans were absolute geniuses when it came to medicine, so that in itself may be a good enough proof for some people to use the bracelets.
Id still be aprehensive though.
Worth a shot though isnt it?

The last time I looked (which was quite a while ago) there wasn't really convincing evidence for the use of glucosamine. So, why don't you post a link to the papers, and discuss WHY they're GOOD evidence.
A lot of people don't use glucosamine due to the lack of evidence, so it would be good to see a paper that sheds some light on the subject.

keiran110

tallaght01 wrote: »

The last time I looked (which was quite a while ago) there wasn't really convincing evidence for the use of glucosamine. So, why don't you post a link to the papers, and discuss WHY they're GOOD evidence.
A lot of people don't use glucosamine due to the lack of evidence, so it would be good to see a paper that sheds some light on the subject.

Couldn't be arsed posting a link to the papers. I'm assuming everybody here has access to google. Check it out for yourselves. They do exist, I have read them and they are valid.

nesf

keiran110 wrote: »

Couldn't be arsed posting a link to the papers. I'm assuming everybody here has access to google. Check it out for yourselves. They do exist, I have read them and they are valid.

Eh, mate, no offence but the standard in this forum is "if you're going to be making claims, be prepared to back them up". If people were allowed to make sweeping statements like your one on glucosamine above and not have to back them up we would have people in here saying all kinds of nonsense.

keiran110

nesf wrote: »

Eh, mate, no offence but the standard in this forum is "if you're going to be making claims, be prepared to back them up". If people were allowed to make sweeping statements like your one on glucosamine above and not have to back them up we would have people in here saying all kinds of nonsense.

I've backed it up by saying they exist and are on the internet. Trust me. I have read them. Sorry though but I am not however going wasting my time looking for them for the sake of a forum.
Try search for them if it bothers you that much. You`l come up with results.

tallaght01

keiran110 wrote: »

I've backed it up by saying they exist and are on the internet. Trust me. I have read them. Sorry though but I am not however going wasting my time looking for them for the sake of a forum.
Try search for them if it bothers you that much. You`l come up with results.

The fact that A) You think google is the way to find scientific literature and that the onus is on other people to disprove whatever claim you would like to make says it all really.

GradMed

keiran110 wrote: »

I've backed it up by saying they exist and are on the internet. Trust me. I have read them. Sorry though but I am not however going wasting my time looking for them for the sake of a forum.
Try search for them if it bothers you that much. You`l come up with results.

Sorry Keiran but I can easily refute all your evidence with these double blind peer reviewed articles. Sorry though but I'm not going to waste my time, it's so precious, by looking for them and then posting them on the forum. Try search for them if it bothers you that much. You'll come up with results.

p.s sorry for feeding the troll

WaldenByThoreua

I was taking Glucosamine due to knee pain after numerous dislocations with the view of preventing and minimizing inevitable arthritis, from march to may.

Anyway, had an appointment with a Rheumatologist in Dublin in July and he said there was no hard evidence that Glucosamine works and to just get plenty of oils and have a varied diet (as well as physio!).

keiran110

Works as in for the treatment for prevention of arthritis?

I do have information papers on glucosamine with scientific studies on them somewhere in my house and there are studies posted online. Like i said, I'm not going looking for them. If it bothers people that much, tough.

And tallaght, I'm sorry to burst your power trip bubble but there are plenty of scientific papers posted online.

GradMed

GradMed wrote: »

Sorry Keiran but I can easily refute all your evidence with these double blind peer reviewed articles. Sorry though but I'm not going to waste my time, it's so precious, by looking for them and then posting them on the forum. Try search for them if it bothers you that much. You'll come up with results.

Kieran as you can see from my above post I've already rebutted each and every paper that you mentioned.
Yes I'm actually joking but that is why when you make a statement you should provide evidence to support it otherwise you could just be making outrageous claims.

nesf

keiran110 wrote: »

And tallaght, I'm sorry to burst your power trip bubble but there are plenty of scientific papers posted online.

Eh, yeah because he didn't know that already...

Dr Galen

keiran110 wrote: »

Works as in for the treatment for prevention of arthritis?

I do have information papers on glucosamine with scientific studies on them somewhere in my house and there are studies posted online. Like i said, I'm not going looking for them. If it bothers people that much, tough.

And tallaght, I'm sorry to burst your power trip bubble but there are plenty of scientific papers posted online.

dude I'm disapointed. I had high hopes for you. Initially you came on here, and came across pretty well, and not like some the quackologists that have been frequenting lately. Then you start posting like this.

If you want those of us in the established order of things to take you and your practices seriously, then your going to have to provide evidence and back up said evidence, like we have to. None of us here can go round saying mad stuff, we can't even do things that we think we'd like to, unless we can show a rationale and some investigation.

JuliusCaesar

keiran110 wrote: »

Couldn't be arsed posting a link to the papers. I'm assuming everybody here has access to google. Check it out for yourselves. They do exist, I have read them and they are valid.

Google scholar:
1: Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2005 Apr 18;(2):CD002946.
Glucosamine therapy for treating osteoarthritis. Towheed TE, Maxwell L, Anastassiades TP, Shea B, Houpt J, Robinson V, Hochberg MC, Wells G:
AUTHORS' CONCLUSIONS: This update includes 20 studies with 2570 patients. Pooled results from studies using a non-Rotta preparation or adequate allocation concealment failed to show benefit in pain and WOMAC function while those studies evaluating the Rotta preparation show that glucosamine was superior to placebo in the treatment of pain and functional impairment resulting from symptomatic OA. WOMAC outcomes of pain, stiffness and function did not show a superiority of glucosamine over placebo for both Rotta and non-Rotta preparations of glucosamine. Glucosamine was as safe as placebo.

2 Long-term effects of glucosamine sulphate on osteoarthritis progression: a randomised, placebo-controlled clinical trial DrJean Yves Reginster MDa, b, , , Rita Deroisy PhDa, Lucio C Rovati MDc, Richard L Lee MScd, Eric Lejeune PhDa, Olivier Bruyere PhDa, Giampaolo Giacovelli PhDc, Yves Henrotin PhDa, Jane E Dacre MDd and Christiane Gossett MDa The Lancet Volume 357, Issue 9252, 27 January 2001, Pages 251-256 double blind RCT using 200 participants :The long-term combined structure-modifying and symptom-modifying effects of gluosamine sulphate suggest that it could be a disease modifying agent in osteoarthritis

Another review of dbl-blind placebo controlled RCTs : Glucosamine and Chondroitin for Treatment of Osteoarthritis A Systematic Quality Assessment and Meta-analysis Timothy E. McAlindon, DM; Michael P. LaValley, PhD; Juan P. Gulin, MD; David T. Felson, MD JAMA. 2000;283:1469-1475. Conclusions Trials of glucosamine and chondroitin preparations for OA symptoms demonstrate moderate to large effects, but quality issues and likely publication bias suggest that these effects are exaggerated. Nevertheless, some degree of efficacy appears probable for these preparations.


That's just the first three..........

Don't have access to Athens on this computer.

I'm not a medic, but those results seem equivocal about the benefits of glucosamine. It might help and it's safe - so I'm taking it for tennis elbow. It seems to help me, but I don't derive any other conclusion from my non double-blind, non placebo controlled convenience sample, n=1.

sam34

keiran110 wrote: »

I recently recommended it for my mother whos bad knees got to the point where she couldnt walk without being in pain. She back motoring around the place!

you know, the other night i was a bit pyrexial but i didnt have any paracetamol in the house, so i opted for some chocolate and i watched back to back episodes of friends.

after an hour or two, my temperature was normal again.

by your logic therefore, chocolate is an anti-pyretic.

or maybe american comedy is one?

they worked for me, therefore they work and are valid "cures".

now, you understand im sure, that i couldnt be bothered doing a search for any evidence to back this up, as i dont need it. if you dont believe me, and think im making this up, well then, off you go and prove to me that "friends" isnt an anti-pyretic.

keiran110 wrote: »

However, the Romans used magnetic bracelets for arthritis and they formed the basis of medicine as we know it today! Those Romans were absolute geniuses when it came to medicine, so that in itself may be a good enough proof for some people to use the bracelets. QUOTE]

are you talking about the same romans that used throw christians to the lions? "geniuses" indeed.

locum-motion

sam34 wrote: »

are you talking about the same romans that used throw christians to the lions? "geniuses" indeed.

To be fair, the Romans didn't actually throw Christians to the lions.
(Source: Stephen Fry said so on a repeat of QI that I saw on Dave the other night. Is that an acceptable standard of evidence?)

sam34

locum-motion wrote: »

To be fair, the Romans didn't actually throw Christians to the lions.
(Source: Stephen Fry said so on a repeat of QI that I saw on Dave the other night. Is that an acceptable standard of evidence?)

no no no, my 3rd class primary school teacher said they did.

so there!

disprove that!

locum-motion

sam34 wrote: »

no no no, my 3rd class primary school teacher said they did.

so there!

disprove that!

I think I'd go with Stephen Fry on that one, to tell you the truth!

keiran110

Right. Thats it. I'm done with the ignorence of this forum. That is why I just couldnt be bother going to the trouble of finding any studies/reports/back up information etc to post about my claims. You people do not inspire any positivity or drive to learn and are stuck in your ways.. Obviously chocolate or american comedy isn't a cure for your illness. Not that I'm doubting the medicinal qualities of chocolate or laughter.

Also I can't believe your having a go at the Romans. The Romans started modern medicine as we know it and had successful cures for many illnesses. They were in fact geniuses. The amount our society owes them in unbelievable.

Right, I'm leaving this forum. Im not wasting my time.

sam34

keiran110 wrote: »

Right. Thats it. I'm done with the ignorence of this forum. That is why I just couldnt be bother going to the trouble of finding any studies/reports/back up information etc to post about my claims. You people do not inspire any positivity or drive to learn and are stuck in your ways.. Obviously chocolate or american comedy isn't a cure for your illness. Not that I'm doubting the medicinal qualities of chocolate or laughter.

Also I can't believe your having a go at the Romans. The Romans started modern medicine as we know it and had successful cures for many illnesses. They were in fact geniuses. The amount our society owes them in unbelievable.

Right, I'm leaving this forum. Im not wasting my time.

your outraged self-righteousness is highly amusing.

i used the friends/chocolate analogy to show you how your assertations about herbs, without evidence to back them up, are effectively worthless.my claim that chocolate is an anti-pyretic is as valid as any claim you have made thus far about herbs, because neither of us have provided any evidence other than personal experience.

but of course, you dont want to hear that, do you?

you simply cannot expect to be taken seriously on this forum when you repeatedly state that you "couldnt be bothered" to provide evidence.

this forum is under the "science" section on boards, not the anecdotes section, or the idle musings section, or anything else, but SCIENCE. you claimed to be interested in science, but it appears you are not.


finally, no doubt we owe the romans a lot. but that does not mean that we should blindly embrace everything they used and assume it is valuable to us, without evidence to back it up. (are you seeing a theme here yet?) do you really think they got nothing wrong?? absolutely nothing??? really????

nesf

keiran110 wrote: »

Also I can't believe your having a go at the Romans. The Romans started modern medicine as we know it and had successful cures for many illnesses. They were in fact geniuses. The amount our society owes them in unbelievable.

And I can't believe that you didn't get my point about Galen.