English pronunciation of Seáin

DougB

Is this pronounced "shane" or "shawn"?

Thanks very much

asdasd

Shawn.

zednanrefnomar

If the fada is on the "a" it must be Shawn.
á = aw as in law
é = ay as in hay

siobhan.murphy

Seán,pronounced shaun

dlofnep

Seán. Never heard of Seáin on it's own unless it was prefixed with a Mac, or simple an A when referring to someone called Seán (A Sheáin.)

Múinteoir

DougB wrote: »

Is this pronounced "shane" or "shawn"?

Thanks very much

First off, I presume you mean Seán.

Here's the thing; they're kinda both right and I can see how a disagreement might arise about it.

Strictly, according to Irish pronunciation, Seán is pronounced SHAWN. But in Ulster Irish, they often pronounce Seán as SHANE. The name Shane is really just an anglicised version of Seán, as it is pronounced in Ulster.

I'll give you a historical example. One of the Ulster O'Neill chieftains in the 16th century was called Shane O'Neill in English (or Shane the Proud, as was his nickname). But the Irish version of his name is just Seán Ó Néill (or Seán an Díomais).

DougB

Thanks for the responses. I'm going to tell my 30-year-old son whose middle name is spelled Seain and who I told it is pronounced "shane" to start putting a fada over the e as the only hope he's pronouncing it correctly. We're American's in the States so who is going to know anyway, right?

catch88

DougB wrote: »

Thanks for the responses. I'm going to tell my 30-year-old son whose middle name is spelled Seain and who I told it is pronounced "shane" to start putting a fada over the e as the only hope he's pronouncing it correctly. We're American's in the States so who is going to know anyway, right?

Out of curiosity, why did you decide to put an 'i' into the name Seán?

DougB

That was 30 years ago....but I think I saw it in a "kids names" book and thought it was probably the Irish spelling. That was before the internet when one could easily get answers like these!

jamesnp

Yeah, it's a bit... not to put too fine a point on it... wrong with the 'i'. Seáin would mean "of Seán" ie. Teach Sheáin (Seán's House/House of Seán), or used in the vocative case when addressing someone. As a stand alone word it would need to be Seán.

Seáin = /SHAWYNE/ (though, as I say, this would never stand alone)
Seán = /SHAWN/

-jp

pog it

jamesnp wrote: »

Yeah, it's a bit... not to put too fine a point on it... wrong with the 'i'. Seáin would mean "of Seán" ie. Teach Sheáin (Seán's House/House of Seán), or used in the vocative case when addressing someone. As a stand alone word it would need to be Seán.

Seáin = /SHAWYNE/ (though, as I say, this would never stand alone)
Seán = /SHAWN/

-jp

The OP said it's the middle name- so if a second christian name would it not be in Genitive relation and therefore get the 'i'

jamesnp

pog it wrote: »

The OP said it's the middle name- so if a second christian name would it not be in Genitive relation and therefore get the 'i'

I don't believe so... though I'm open to correction.

-jp

pog it

jamesnp wrote: »

I don't believe so... though I'm open to correction.

-jp

I mean if the son was given the name Seán in reference to a relative then that name means 'of' Seán (say for example his grandfather).

I'd be interested in hearing what happens in general if someone is called Mary Cait for example.

I'd expect it to translated as Máire Cháit (Cáit in genitive)

jamesnp

pog it wrote: »

I mean if the son was given the name Seán in reference to a relative then that name means 'of' Seán (say for example his grandfather).

I'd be interested in hearing what happens in general if someone is called Mary Cait for example.

I'd expect it to translated as Máire Cháit (Cáit in genitive)

I don't know. I've looked it up and there doesn't seem to be any mention of it - it's not an Irish practise.

It seems very odd to me though, and that usually means it's wrong.

-jp

pog it

Máirtín Tom Sheáinín.

There is lenition at least.

jamesnp

pog it wrote: »

Máirtín Tom Sheáinín.

There is lenition at least.

That's not a middle name in the English sense though, that's a naming tradition specific to Connamara and the name in the middle is never genitive, only the grandfather's name is lenited and in the genitive.

-jp

pog it

No I was using that to show lenition. The above is not quite the same thing as a middle name though, as in it's the middle of three first personal names, not the middle name between christian name and surname.

I also thought Tom was in common form because of the dntls rule.

Also I've been checking aound and yeah Máire Cháit is how Cáit is spelt with lenition.

FlutterinBantam

Of course if you are a Dub. you pronounce it "Shon"

the Dub tends to ignore the fadas and if there is a fada they will ignore it eg "Fás" which most people will pronounce "Fawss" however the Dub will pronounce "Foss".

then of course the Dub will elongate the vowels where everyone else shortens them eg "moooorder" instead of "muhrder".


Listen out for it.

An gal gréine

jamesnp wrote: »

That's not a middle name in the English sense though, that's a naming tradition specific to Connamara and the name in the middle is never genitive, only the grandfather's name is lenited and in the genitive.

-jp

This tradition still holds in all the Gaeltachtaí. It's not peculiar to Conamara.

An gal gréine

pog it wrote: »

No I was using that to show lenition. The above is not quite the same thing as a middle name though, as in it's the middle of three first personal names, not the middle name between christian name and surname.

I also thought Tom was in common form because of the dntls rule.

Also I've been checking aound and yeah Máire Cháit is how Cáit is spelt with lenition.

Yes, pog it, I would agree. Other examples without the dntls rule are Micí Sheáin Néill the famous seanchaí from Donegal, Jimín Mháire Thaidhg from Kerry and Pádraig Mhéaraí Mhatt from An Cheathrú Rua in Conamara.

asdasd

Máirtín Tom Sheáinín.

Still not the name proper, I think Sheáinín is gentive and Tom, the whole thing could be written Mártín (Mac) T(h)om O'Sheánín

Martin son of Tom, grandson of Seaneen

pog it

For the craic dudes, here is another couple of examples taken from 'An Tír Aineoil' (the Unknown Country):

Dara Pheigín Mhicil Mhíchíl Mháire
Peige Sheáin Tommy Mhicil Mhíchíl Mháire (Ní Chonghaile).

I'd love to have this kinda list in my name fo the craic!

conchubhar1

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Of course if you are a Dub. you pronounce it "Shon"

the Dub tends to ignore the fadas and if there is a fada they will ignore it eg "Fás" which most people will pronounce "Fawss" however the Dub will pronounce "Foss".

then of course the Dub will elongate the vowels where everyone else shortens them eg "moooorder" instead of "muhrder".


Listen out for it.

and the ignorant poster will over generalise

no need to ''look out for it'' - evidence is above.

im a dub - and i dont pronounce as your informed comments say we do.

----
seánín - little seán

plus there would be no apostrophe in an irish name.....

pog it

conchubhar1 wrote: »

and the ignorant poster will over generalise

no need to ''look out for it'' - evidence is above.

im a dub - and i dont pronounce as your informed comments say we do.

----
seánín - little seán

plus there would be no apostrophe in an irish name.....

That's cause you know better Concubhar.

conchubhar1

do i? maybe in some cases


but that was a feckin huge overexageration and generalization made by that poster

how all dubs pronounce irish - that is an impressive thing to know.....