John McGuinness applauds proposed downgrade of County Kilkenny

road_high

Is it any wonder Kilkenny is forgotten about in the Dail when this is what we have "representing" us. Merge Carlow and Kilkenny county councils; where as counties with far less population are not proposed to be merged i.e. Laois/Offaly to our north... oh wait I forgot, they have a Taoiseach with real powers unlike our own little mouthpiece.

http://www.advertiser.ie/kilkenny

odin_ie

[rant]
Is it not bad enough that the Corporation has been reduced to a Borough Council, it's basically part of the County Council now. And now merging Carlow and Kilkenny into one. Why not just rob people of their local government completely. Why do those in the capital get to keep their 4 authorities? Are we in Kilkenny, and Carlow for that matter, somehow of less value to this country, so much so that we do not deserve to have our voices heard on a local level?

This Finna Fáil led government is a farce, it has been a farce for many many years. It bails out the banks and the developers, but allows those on welfare and those in the working and middle classes to suffer the consequences. It allowed the false economy created by the building industry to continue. The Celtic Tiger was on its death bed, and we were lead to believe it was alive and well. This government has a lot to answer for.

The current situation reminds me from Full Metal Jacket

"It's one big sh1t sandwich and we're all gonna have to take a bite."

It's pretty obvious that this is what we are in for now.
[/rant]

road_high

Sure when we have the local TD saying how great the idea is it will go through. So we will have counties like Laois, Offaly, Westmeath etc etc have a higher status than us. Is it any wonder that until recently we have been such a backwater infrastructurally.

brettmirl

I can't see this happening to be honest.

Politicians don't "sh1t on their own doorstep", for want of a better way of putting it.

Angus MacGyver

odin_ie wrote: »

[rant]
but allows those on welfare...........to suffer
[/rant]

200+ quid a week plus rent allowance and what ever else they get.... Suffering???

JohnMc1

brettmirl wrote: »

I can't see this happening to be honest.

Politicians don't "sh1t on their own doorstep", for want of a better way of putting it.

The residents of Kilkenny just elected his son to both Councils. He doesn't give a damn anymore.

road_high

JohnMc1 wrote: »

The residents of Kilkenny just elected his son to both Councils. He doesn't give a damn anymore.

They criticise the very gravy trains they benefit hugely from. Funny, i never heard of either of them say they would except a much lower income for the seats.

JohnMc1

mfitzy wrote: »

They criticise the very gravy trains they benefit hugely from. Funny, i never heard of either of them say they would except a much lower income for the seats.

I think john started towing the party line when he got Junior Ministership.

road_high

JohnMc1 wrote: »

I think john started towing the party line when he got Junior Ministership.

Ha ha, he always did in my opinion. When has the "rebel" ever voted against his FF family in the Dail?! I certainly don't recall it anyhow.

Firetrap

The people of Kilkenny keep voting in this joker so they deserve everything they get.

femur61

Firetrap wrote: »

The people of Kilkenny keep voting in this joker so they deserve everything they get.

I agree with Firetrap but at the weekend I was disucssing with siter in law why Andrew got such high votes.

She said that when John/Andrew were looking for votes he'd promise people who were uneducated things that they were entitled to and get them. But if they had applied for them themselves they would have gotten them. She said also that during the last election Andrew/John collected people who didn't drive dropping them to polling stations! These areas were no-no's for others who were polling.

Purry Cat

femur61 wrote: »

I agree with Firetrap but at the weekend I was disucssing with siter in law why Andrew got such high votes.

She said that when John/Andrew were looking for votes he'd promise people who were uneducated things that they were entitled to and get them. But if they had applied for them themselves they would have gotten them. She said also that during the last election Andrew/John collected people who didn't drive dropping them to polling stations! These areas were no-no's for others who were polling.

The McGuinnesses do indeed drop a lot of people (mostly travellers and the elderly) to the polling stations on election day.

MsFifers

I think most independent observers would agree that we are over-represented by politicians and I think its not a bad idea to think of ways of streamlining local government. I'm anti-local politicians anyway because it was the planning decisions made by local politicians that created the over-dependence on the property sector which led to the economic crash.

I don't think this proposal will happen though. Its just one of the smokescreen proposals that will get everyone up on their high horses and distracted from some of the real impacts of the proposed cuts in other areas.

MsFifers

Purry Cat wrote: »

The McGuinnesses do indeed drop a lot of people (mostly travellers and the elderly) to the polling stations on election day.

Nothing wrong with that! Obama used the same strategy in the U.S. (Though I don't think he did the driving himself)

Its a bit more moral than another local politician I know who used to collect people with mental disabilities from their residential home and bring them to vote and tell them where to put the no. 1.

Stephen

MsFifers wrote: »

I don't think this proposal will happen though. Its just one of the smokescreen proposals that will get everyone up on their high horses and distracted from some of the real impacts of the proposed cuts in other areas.

This ^^

Spot on.

JohnMc1

mfitzy wrote: »

Ha ha, he always did in my opinion. When has the "rebel" ever voted against his FF family in the Dail?! I certainly don't recall it anyhow.

Yeah its like had this big facade going on where he used to blast Bertie Ahern every week in the Kilkenny People but when he was up in the Dail it was like he would never open his mouth except to say yes to whatever Bertie was proposing.

MsFifers wrote:

Nothing wrong with that! Obama used the same strategy in the U.S. (Though I don't think he did the driving himself)

The Democrats have actually been doing that for the last couple of elections [and probably longer but we only know about the last few since the whole recount and voter fraud issue] They would even bus Illegal Immigrants to the polls and bribe them with money [I even heard drugs but I'm not 100% sure on that] to go in and vote for them because some polls don't ask for photo ID and you could even fill out an absentee ballot if your name wasn't on the list.

catbear

I'm surprised none off his faithful have turned up on this thread yet, perhaps the fog is lifting.
Ultimately it is those to whom he promised the most to that will be his greatest enemy when they realise they've been used. It's a dangerous game to play with such massive upheaval all around.
He either walks the walk or shuts up.

sooshie

catbear wrote: »

I'm surprised none off his faithful have turned up on this thread yet, perhaps the fog is lifting.
Ultimately it is those to whom he promised the most to that will be his greatest enemy when they realise they've been used. It's a dangerous game to play with such massive upheaval all around.
He either walks the walk or shuts up.

hi "faithful" are always here readin the opinions of the ppl!!!!

fabbydabby

There's a whole lot of hatin' goin on here people.

From reading this forum, you would thik the entire county hated the McGuinness family, (despite the fact that they continuously top the polls... work that one out).

I am not jumping in here defending them by the way... it's all the same to me. I became interested in politics since I first reached my 20's but since then I have come to the conclusion that all politicians, regardless of their party, talk complete and utter b0llocks. They roll out the same ambiguous and jaded clichés year after year while having the same bitching arguements at each other; and furthermore they exist primarily to further their own interests, which generally (and especially in recessionary times) are in direct conflict with the interests of the greater good.

And for this reason, I often think a strong dictator would be just the man to get us out of a recession. Like Hitler did with Germany in the 30's (except without all the genocide and war and the trip to Russia in '41 where it all went pearshaped, obviously)

But anyway, I digress. My own political opinions nonwithstanding, since this recent epiphany I have become less interested in politics. But as an impartial observer, I would say the certain people on these forums either have an agenda or a major chip on their shoulder about the McGuinnesses whom, I should probably point out, I personally find OK.

catbear

I feel I must rephrase a prior comment:
I'm surprised none off his faithful have turned up on this thread yet
to
I'm surprised none off his faithful have turned up on this thread sooner
But a week and a half later!!!!!

Is this melt down in the FF camp? Are you going to stand by them sooshie, as they go down in a blaze of glory?
Will you be defending them once property tax for all is applied as recommended by the Dept of Finance but the top fifty developers get a bailout?

I have voted for John in the past but this business of FF bailing out their developers and banking friends shows just how far from their duty this government has strayed. Everyone's paying now through current and future reductions of public services for this giant bailout.

I still like John on a Human level and he has accepted my concerns regarding the future implications of the current iniquitous actions, however he still votes for these financial acts of treachery. For me this is an impasse that can only be overcome by change of government.

He can be part of that change or he can choose to be faithful to the bankers party.

Threadhead

Fianna Fail and Bertie and his boyos like Mr. McGuinness and that whipping mule Cowen will always be to us what Silvio Berlusconi is to Italy.

They will force us crap, lie, cheat and steal for as long as it takes to garner them votes, keep them in power and curry favour. They do not care about anything outside of the concerns of their own social class. They don't care, they don't know and unless there's a photo op or some merit points to be picked up then they won't investigate further.

They will spend more time, however, crying about musical chairs on the Borough Council and sulking about seating arrangements and why they haven't got a chance to be Mayor instead of admitting any kind of culpability for the failures of the party they represent. Once McGuinness and his ilk can bad mouth Cowen, then they can say 'It's not my fault' and try and deflect public resentment.

The same lieing, cheating, maneouvering and scamming we've suffered for years. And like in Italy, the mass electorate laps it up with a spoon and asks for more.

And why not? Aren't they loveable rogues? Wouldn't we do the same in their shoes? Aren't they just nice ol' local boys made good?

Once you can say 'It's not my fault' 'I only tried my best' or 'I didn't know my driver was going to park there' then you can be culpability free! Let's all do it the Fianna Fail way!

ber12009

Threadhead wrote: »

Fianna Fail and Bertie and his boyos like Mr. McGuinness and that whipping mule Cowen will always be to us what Silvio Berlusconi is to Italy.

They will force us crap, lie, cheat and steal for as long as it takes to garner them votes, keep them in power and curry favour. They do not care about anything outside of the concerns of their own social class. They don't care, they don't know and unless there's a photo op or some merit points to be picked up then they won't investigate further.

They will spend more time, however, crying about musical chairs on the Borough Council and sulking about seating arrangements and why they haven't got a chance to be Mayor instead of admitting any kind of culpability for the failures of the party they represent. Once McGuinness and his ilk can bad mouth Cowen, then they can say 'It's not my fault' and try and deflect public resentment.

The same lieing, cheating, maneouvering and scamming we've suffered for years. And like in Italy, the mass electorate laps it up with a spoon and asks for more.

And why not? Aren't they loveable rogues? Wouldn't we do the same in their shoes? Aren't they just nice ol' local boys made good?

Once you can say 'It's not my fault' 'I only tried my best' or 'I didn't know my driver was going to park there' then you can be culpability free! Let's all do it the Fianna Fail way!

ha back to the parking again

catbear

Yes Ber12009, if needs must, then back to the parking incident.

Forgiveness means nothing without penance and being told "please don't do that again" is not enough in Irish politics when there is a huge effort to protect a few at everyones expense through NAMA, which John McGuiness has signed off on and supports.

FF and their buddies pigged out on the property bubble and now that the bill has arrived they want us to pay. Sean Fitzpatrick is still a free man with a massive pension, the debts he racked up we are now paying for and still no accountability.

FF tells everyone that keeping property prices high is best in long term.
If that logic worked then they may as well stockpile food in order to keep it from people who need it and keep prices high for the producers?

FF including John McGuiness don't care about us, they're patronising you Ber, probably telling you what a loyal supporter you are and how they'll look after you once this whole bank trouble dies down.

They've been listening to the bankers for their next moves, if this was truly a free market we'd have fewer Irish banks by now. Instead we have increasing unemployment that's projected to hit 15% national (gov. est) and still no one has been sacked for incompetence. Everyone that has "moved on" from the Irish banking has done so with their pensions intact.

In the future John's good work will overshadowed by his support for this sick and perverted government. By holding no one accountable they are saying "you can even park on the handicapped if you just say sorry afterwards". Civic duty isn't in their blood. Accountability is something other countries do and transparency is for window cleaners, nothing to do with Irish government.

Then again Ber, if you don't mind John and his buddies poking your wallet for their little NAMA bash, then i'm sure you won't mind paying more tax for reduced services for the rest of your life. Got to keep those empty properties at inflated prices, remember it's more important than those silly public services like health and welfare.

Now be a good patriot, shut up, do as FF tells you, think of our hero developers and bankers who made a few massive mistakes but swear they won't do so again because they said sorry. Forget the unemployed and the sick, they're no use to FF if they buy can't buy houses from FFs developer buddies with mortgages from FFs banker buddies.

FF, bankers, developers; 21st century irish trinity.

If FF get their way and overpay for these properties, then they have signed us all up, even if you never got involved in the property bubble, to a intergenerational jumbo mortgage to which repayments from our taxes must be paid into before all our immediate social needs.

This government is selling us out to bunch of gamblers who lost on the open market but now say they can get it all back if we just give them a second chance. The sick, elderly, and unemployed don't get a second chance so why should FF entertain this NAMA fantasy.

Time is running out for John to split the party, i reckon he'll jump ship after Lisbon II.

tom12

catbear wrote: »

Yes Ber12009, if needs must, then back to the parking incident.

Forgiveness means nothing without penance and being told "please don't do that again" is not enough in Irish politics when there is a huge effort to protect a few at everyones expense through NAMA, which John McGuiness has signed off on and supports.

FF and their buddies pigged out on the property bubble and now that the bill has arrived they want us to pay. Sean Fitzpatrick is still a free man with a massive pension, the debts he racked up we are now paying for and still no accountability.

FF tells everyone that keeping property prices high is best in long term.
If that logic worked then they may as well stockpile food in order to keep it from people who need it and keep prices high for the producers?

FF including John McGuiness don't care about us, they're patronising you Ber, probably telling you what a loyal supporter you are and how they'll look after you once this whole bank trouble dies down.

They've been listening to the bankers for their next moves, if this was truly a free market we'd have fewer Irish banks by now. Instead we have increasing unemployment that's projected to hit 15% national (gov. est) and still no one has been sacked for incompetence. Everyone that has "moved on" from the Irish banking has done so with their pensions intact.

In the future John's good work will overshadowed by his support for this sick and perverted government. By holding no one accountable they are saying "you can even park on the handicapped if you just say sorry afterwards". Civic duty isn't in their blood. Accountability is something other countries do and transparency is for window cleaners, nothing to do with Irish government.

Then again Ber, if you don't mind John and his buddies poking your wallet for their little NAMA bash, then i'm sure you won't mind paying more tax for reduced services for the rest of your life. Got to keep those empty properties at inflated prices, remember it's more important than those silly public services like health and welfare.

Now be a good patriot, shut up, do as FF tells you, think of our hero developers and bankers who made a few massive mistakes but swear they won't do so again because they said sorry. Forget the unemployed and the sick, they're no use to FF if they buy can't buy houses from FFs developer buddies with mortgages from FFs banker buddies.

FF, bankers, developers; 21st century irish trinity.

If FF get their way and overpay for these properties, then they have signed us all up, even if you never got involved in the property bubble, to a intergenerational jumbo mortgage to which repayments from our taxes must be paid into before all our immediate social needs.

This government is selling us out to bunch of gamblers who lost on the open market but now say they can get it all back if we just give them a second chance. The sick, elderly, and unemployed don't get a second chance so why should FF entertain this NAMA fantasy.

Time is running out for John to split the party, i reckon he'll jump ship after Lisbon II.

That's some speach a load of s**t is what it is.

Purry Cat

tom12 wrote: »

That's some speach a load of s**t is what it is.

An eloquent reply!

fabbydabby

Indeed. You are not a member of the literary and debating society, Tom, are you perchance?

What a lucid, intelligent and well thought out retort. Have you considered running for Fianna Fail?

tom12

fabbydabby wrote: »

Indeed. You are not a member of the literary and debating society, Tom, are you perchance?

What a lucid, intelligent and well thought out retort. Have you considered running for Fianna Fail?

you can all say what you like if i have a problem i go to john and if he can do somthing he will thats good enough for me not like alot of you i dont listen to all the s**t about him he done alot for the people of kilkenny. as they say eaten bread is soon forgot about

fabbydabby

Well, if you read through the thread, you'll see that I actually don't have a problem with Mr McGuinness at all. I said that I found the McGuinnesses alright, and I do.

But this:

That's some speach a load of s**t is what it is.

hardly constitutes intelligent political debate, does it? What sort of a response were you expecting?

Meh, I am just throwing in my 2 cents here anyway. To be honest I really don't care. It doesn't seem to make a difference who is in charge, it's still a badly run, mickey mouse backwater country.

Maybe The English should have been left in power.

catbear

tom12 wrote: »

That's some speach a load of s**t is what it is.

I feel the same way whenever I hear anyone from FF talking about NAMA.

All i hear is blah blah blah vital to our recovery, blah blah blah everyone one wins when prices jump back up blah blah blah.

Time for a recap I think.

Remember a year ago our dear leaders decided that the banks needed our protection and told the world that whatever the debts these banks may owe, it's all right because the irish tax payer would pay for the damage. At the time Cowen and co told all the naysayers that the banks assets were greater than their liabilities. What happened next?
We have to RECAPITALISE them! So balls to that whopper. On top of that we learned that Sean Fitzpatrick had misled his shareholders, at the same time Bernie Madoff was been tried for doing something similar. Seanie is still walking free but Madoff is in Jail for the rest of his life! So the government been able to hold these bankers to account is just another huge whopper!

The government don't run this country any more, they think they do, but they don't. Sorry but its bankers and developers into the life boats first, taxpayers second.

Profit is the fruit of labour, our labour, and this government is pouring that fruit into the belly of these banks and you can tolerate this? your children will next.

If this sounds like another steaming pile of manure of a speech, then get used to the smell of it because that all you'll own when the untouchables in this society have finished with you. Stand up for something or you'll fall for anything.

JohnMc1

I have nothing personally against the McGuinness'. They have been very helpful to my family in the past and came to my home personally earlier in the year to offer their condolences on my Father's death.

That aside does anybody here think John wouldn't be supporting this merger of KK/Carlow councils if Andrew's spot wasn't already secured?

Purry Cat

tom12 wrote: »

you can all say what you like if i have a problem i go to john and if he can do somthing he will thats good enough for me not like alot of you i dont listen to all the s**t about him he done alot for the people of kilkenny. as they say eaten bread is soon forgot about

The front page of this week's Kilkenny Advertiser says that Kilkenny is top of the list for redundancies this year. What was that about "eaten bread" and everything John McGuinness did "for the people of Kilkenny" again???

spoonbadger

Purry Cat wrote: »

The front page of this week's Kilkenny Advertiser says that Kilkenny is top of the list for redundancies this year. What was that about "eaten bread" and everything John McGuinness did "for the people of Kilkenny" again???

An excellent point, miss cat!. And tom, correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't all politicians expected to "done a lot" for their constituency?. Seems like something that would be in the job description! (fine print, perhaps?).