CAT5e all over the house but what about the analogue phone?

ollielaroo

Hi all,

I have a question or two about how to sort out telephony in our house that is nearly ready.

I asked the electrician to put in one CAT5e cable and single RJ-45 wall plates in every room in the house and centralise them in the hot-press. In the hot-press I will wire them into a patch panel and from there each cable will go to a switch. I suppose you could say I wanted a LAN in the house really (home networking etc), but I'm also hoping to accommodate an analogue phone as well. You see we may have a regular phone for a long time but might switch to VoIP at some stage.
There isn't one ordinary phone wire in the house (which I like) and I was thinking the only one that will exist is the one that will come from eircom coming into the house (most likely to the router in the hot-press beside the panel and switch).

In another thread someone mentioned the Linksys LVS9000 VOIP PBX which can be used as the router for the home network and VoIP etc. but I'm getting a bit confused.. I'd like to get this device and configure it myself.

When the network (and PBX device) is up and running can I simply plug in an analogue phone into any RJ-45 socket in the house and still use it like an ordinary phone?

If it is decided that this idea is stupid or not workable then how would I be able to set up the system so I could plug in a regular phone into any RJ-45 socket and make regular calls?

Thanks,
Confused.

daffy_duc

RJ11's fit perfectly into RJ45 jacks.
You could use the RJ45 plugs as phone plugs, just make sure you don't get confused.

It will use the centre 2 pins of the RJ45 connector.

ollielaroo

Yes daffy,

It's coming back to me now! At the other end (in the hot-press) I just patch the phone line to the appropriate port on switch and patch panel.

I think I was making this more complicated that it actually is. I just leave out the LinkSys VoIP box until I'm ready to go VoIP in the future.

Another question..

The electrician unfortunatley won't be wiring the network cables and RJ-45 sockets in each room, he said he's not certified or something like that, meaning I will have to do it, I don't mind. I know I should keep with the 568B wiring scheme throughout but what about the actual RJ-45 sockets?
I mean he showed me a plain RJ-45 socket with four telephone wires inside, yellow, red, blue and green I think but these don't look like the type you see in the office or college situation. The type you see in the office or college have a sort of little black box inside where you might punch down all the twisted pairs. I don't know what to do here, at the socket if you know what I mean. Do I just take the four twisted pairs and connect them to the four telephone wires inside the socket? if so what which wires to which coloured telephone connections in the socket?
Also if I use the socket he showed me as opposed to the industrial type in the office or college, am I risking any future proofing?

Thanks all.

BoB_BoT

The electrician won't don't it as he's not certified, it's costly to get certified and you have to be able to write off on the job to say it meets x, y and z standards. This ranges from performance quality to safety etc...

If you want it certifiable you'll have to get a professional in. If you want to do it yourself, you'll need a punchdown tool to terminate the rj45 sockets. You can get these in peats iirc or else through ebay or online tool shops. There's quite a few guides online how to do this. Were you provided with the rj45 sockets? If not, when you buy them, there's generally a wiring diagram included. If you've never done this before, i'd suggest doing a few practice terminations on a spare socket.

With regards to the rj11, get an rj11 socket, do not use an rj45. It doesn't matter if it's connected using cat5e, once you know which cable is which.

I'm not 100% sure with regards to the socket he's shown you. Could you possibly describe it in a bit more detail. rj-45 sockets generally look like this clicky

ollielaroo

Hi BoB_BoT,

I've done my CCNA a few years ago so I'm a bit rusty. I remember wiring one RJ45 plug and cable back then, i don't mind doing them myself. I've just done a little revision and recall that only four of the eight wires in a Cat5e cable are used when using ethernet, and only two of the wires in a phone cable (RJ11) are used, in the POTS.
What my electrician showed me was a plain RJ45 socket with four telephone connections at the back.

I don't think I need to put in any RJ11 sockets at all... I once worked in an office before where we just plugged the ordinary phone into a network socket (this socket was patched at the patch panel to the phone line) and it worked fine.

I guess what I really want to know is if I accept his RJ45 socket with the four telephone connections at the back then which twisted pairs get connected to which phone wire connections (black, red, green and yellow) ?

Thanks a lot.

ollielaroo

Also, would you believe it, I've just read..

"T568A is probably used more often because besides being an Ethernet wiring standard, it also complies with 2pr USOC (2 line phone). T568B can also be used for 2 line phones, but the color code does not comply with the 2p USOC standard"

That is from http://www.computing.net/answers/networking/rj45-jack-used-for-rj11/32675.html.

Doesn't this also mean that if I want to use ordinary phones over the Cat5e for the next few years then all my wiring will have to abide by T568A and not T568B as I had planned ?

FusionNet

You seem to making this very complex on yourself. Firstly your sparky wouldnt do it probably cause he doesnt know how to do it! The socket he showed you was a standard cheap and nasty RJ-11 socket. Cat5e and Cat6 modules dont have red green and yellow wires in em. You dont have to have a piece of paper to say you can terminate structured cabling but its important you have extensive training.

Some of the advice you have been given here is incorrect. Im not sure what the people do here for a living but one of the things I do is install certified Panduit Networks so Ill answer a few of your questions.

Firstly you can wire your analogue phones into your structured cabling and you DO NOT need RJ-11 sockets on the other end. The whole idea of a properly wired stuctured cabling network is that you can run, voice - analogue and digital, video - analogue digital cctve HDMI etc, and obviously data. there is one important thing to be aware of though when you use an RJ-45 socket with RJ-11 plugs. cheaper sockets will get permanantly damaged. Technically the modules I use work with RJ-11 but the manufacturer doesnt reacommend it. So even though its annoying to be safe you just have to crimp your telephones with an RJ-45 plug.

Now with regard to connecting up the analogue line in the hot press. This can be done many ways, it all depends on the type of patch panel, how many terminations you have etc. If you could let me know how many rooms need a phone and what patch panel you have I can advise on this.

With regard the actual way to wire. Do not wire in 568A. I dont know what posts you have read or documents but there is no good reason to wire this way. Wire your network accoring to the regs which is 568B. All your voice will work on pins 4.5 which is the bl/wh wh/bl pins on the patch panel. This makes wiring for voice really really easy. Although in theory you will never probably use all 8 pins as this is for gigabit only dont over complicate the project.

So if you have any more questions or things your not sure about just repost and Ill help you as I can.

ollielaroo

Hi Eoghan,

Thanks for that very informative reply.

I'm 100% positive he showed me an RJ45 socket with those phone wires at the back, weird I know, but anyway I suppose that's not really the point here.
So you're saying that if all is wired for T568B then the phone line will work?
i.e. even if I don't change a phone cable to have an RJ45 plug?
(i would prefer not to have to change the plug on the phone cable really)

In the hot-press I'll have about 12 cables coming in. That's 12 RJ45 sockets in total around the house and I think the electrician has a Cat5e cable coming into the house (for phone line) i think!.

I'm thinking about future proofing i.e. Cat5e is meant to be able to carry gigabits isn't it.. so I'll obviously need a good 16 port patch-panel that can carry gigabits?
(I actually have an older 24 port patch-panel from Brand Rex but not sure if this would be good enough for gigabits, I better check it's documentation out)

As for the number of actual phones we will probably just have ONE ordinary phone that I would like to be able to move/patch to another room if needed.

See where I'm going Eoghan?

sunnysoutheast

Just wire up all of your CAT5e to RJ45s using the 568B scheme - this will be on the back of the modules and patch panels. If you want an analogue phone just plug in the line to one socket and your phone to the corresponding module, this will use pins 4 and 5 and will work fine.

You can also use the same cabling for IP whenever you want to.

There is no need to wire differently for phones any more.

SSE

ollielaroo

Thanks SSE,

That's exactly as I was thinking thank you!
I feel better now that I've been reassured hearing it from someone else.

Went to electrical supplier in town today and bought and RJ45 socket, the one they gave me is modular and has 8 colour coded receptacles for each wire, nice and simple, cool!

Now I need to measure what space I have in the hot press for a cabinet, probaby about 6u, should be grand and spacious for working with a patch panel, switch and broadband router. I see them online for about €100.

;-)

Cat5

Just to throw a spanner in the works...Its such a a pity you didn't get the sparks to run 2 cat5e to each location....:D

ollielaroo

really??

Please feel free to elaborate :-)

Cat5

Well....I always recommend a minimum of two cat5's to each room.. And for a home office At least 4...
This leads to far more functionality as regards phones and ethernet..
You could still have phone and ethernet in the same room ...use a double aperture single gang face plate by splitting cable and using 1236 for ethernet and 3456 for phones..but how messy is that..

ollielaroo

By the way..

Does anyone that lives near galway have a 16 port patch panel 19" that I could swap for a 24 port panel?

swap here...

...

Cat5

Just use the 16 port..You said you only had 12 cables....

ollielaroo

Sorry CAT5 I mean I have a 24 port panel but would prefer to have a 16 port panel.

Thanks

WellyJ

Cat5 wrote: »

Just use the 16 port..You said you only had 12 cables....

Surely that is why he wants to swap his 24 for a 16? - Nevermind, he replied himself

ollielaroo

Yes Cat5, about the two Cat5 cables..

having two cables would have been a help but when you think about it I reckoned I'd just keep it simple i.e. if I get a landline phone (base station and second phone) I'll just plug it into one RJ45 socket and wander about the house with the second phone. Worst case scenario I reckon we could step up to the challenge and setup some wireless access points and some kind of VoIP thing for internal and external, maybe.

After all it's a house not an office if you see what I mean.

Thanks

lackabane

Hi Eoghan,

that's very informative - thanks. I was looking for much the same info.

I have a related question about patch panels/comms cabinets. I know nothing about either, but my house is currently at second fix and I need to tidy up the cables. In my utility room I have the following:

Incoming -
* eircom phone line
* 6x coax cables from the attic for TV/satellite antennae etc

Outgoing-
* 18x Cat6 cables (2 to each room)
* 20x coax cables (2 to each room plus extra to living area)

Can someboby advise me of a suitable patch panel or communications hub to use with these? I'm not really up to speed with the technical aspects of this yet.

Thanks!