Letter to JJ Kavanagh

unionman

Sent to info@jjkavanagh.ie this morning. Just thought I'd share it with the forum. I'm not expecting a response.

To whom it concerns,

This morning (Friday 17th July 2009), at approximately 8.50am, on the John's Road citybound between Islandbridge and Heuston Station, one of your buses (reg no 03 WD 11) overtook me.

To say that the manner in which I was overtaken was dangerous is putting it mildly. The driver passed me with barely an inch to spare. I was cycling, and the speed of the bus passing and the close proximity of the bus very nearly put me off the bike. With little room on either side, I was lucky not to have been pulled under the wheels of the bus.

I cycle this route every day. Because of the long lines of taxis stretching from the taxi rank at Heuston back up John's Road, most of the route is very narrow. More significantly, there is no tactical advantage whatsoever in overtaking a cyclist traveling at approximately 30kmh, as that is the maximum speed any vehicle can manage on that road during rush hour. All vehicles end up in the same bottleneck at the three sets of lights on that stretch of road. The going is slow, and shaving cyclists off the road won't make the journey any faster.

I cycle in Dublin city on a daily basis. I drive in the city on a regular basis also. It requires a fair degree of caution, courtesy to other road users and sound judgment. The vast majority of other road users exercise at least the same degree of caution, courtesy and judgment. The situation is far from perfect, but despite the perception that cyclists and other road users are locked in a state of perpetual warfare with each other, I think most people are doing their best.

However, JJ Kavanagh buses are conspicuous in their scant regard for other road users. This morning is not the first time that my life has been put at risk by one of your drivers trying to shave a few seconds off his schedule. I have seen your drivers pass through red lights at pedestrian crossings (the crossing at the Kilmainham Hilton is a favourite for this) and cut lanes in front of cars without indicating. On the whole, my experience of your fleet has been poor, and I fear it is merely a matter of time before one of your drivers is involved in a serious accident as a result of poor judgement, haste and disregard for other road users.

As a cyclist, I can tell you that close calls are frequent, and accidents mercifully rare. But the behaviour of your driver this morning meant that I relied on luck to stay alive. Your driver’s behaviour was unnecessary, dangerous and stupid.

I would urge you to spend some time in training your drivers to exercise better judgement, particularly when they are driving in the confines of the city. I would also urge you to foster a culture of respect for other road users. There is no evidence that such a culture exists within your organisation at present.

Yours Sincerely etc.

tomasrojo

A very eloquent letter.

I was on the cycle lane on Inichicore road the other week (the rather eccentric two-way one that puts cyclists who are going in the same direction as the motorised traffic on the "high side" over to the right). I knew there was a JJK bus behind me and I heard it starting to beep. I though at first he was just giving me a warning that he was going to pass, but, no, he had his right wheels smack in the centre of the cycle lanes, and was telling me to get out of his way. So I took the centre of the normal traffic lane. I knew he'd be turning right within 150m and I'd be going straight on, so it was probably the safest thing to do.

Their drivers are really an accident waiting to happen though.

unionman

tomasrojo wrote: »

A very eloquent letter.

I was on the cycle lane on Inichicore road the other week (the rather eccentric two-way one that puts cyclists who are going in the same direction as the motorised traffic on the "high side" over to the right). I knew there was a JJK bus behind me and I heard it starting to beep. I though at first he was just giving me a warning that he was going to pass, but, no, he had his right wheels smack in the centre of the cycle lanes, and was telling me to get out of his way. So I took the centre of the normal traffic lane. I knew he'd be turning right within 150m and I'd be going straight on, so it was probably the safest thing to do.

Their drivers are really an accident waiting to happen though.

That cycle lane is a nightmare. It's far safer to cycle on the left hand side of the road outbound. Though also illegal, quite a catch 22.

Hungrycol

Great letter unionman. I have had one close call by a McGinley coach in Drumcondra. It seems the worse road offenders in this country are the private coach hire companies in my experience.

RobFowl

Was nearly taken out by a Fingal County council truck this morning in much the same manner :mad:

tomasrojo

unionman wrote: »

That cycle lane is a nightmare. It's far safer to cycle on the left hand side of the road outbound.

You know, I normally would agree 100%, and that's what I used to do, until I noticed that it made the buses swing even deeper into the cycle lane (often quite recklessly and at speed) and it occurred to me that I might be indirectly putting someone who was using the lane in danger. So now I cycle close to the left side of the left cycle lane while still being inside it, as it seems to force the motorised vehicles to slow down. I stay alert and ready to bank right, just in case.

I really do not like that "facility".

rottenhat

Good work Unionman, been meaning to do the same for quite a while. Some of the worst drivers in the city in my experience.

Idleater

I've thought about writing to that company in a similar vein since 1998. Obviously the standard of driving by their drivers has not increased since then so I would not hold much optimism for any change now.

Their scant regard for other road users is not limited to pedestrians and cyclists, but I have had to take evasive action from them both on the motorcycle and the car.

In my opinion the only set of drivers that are actually worse are the light blue coloured dumper truck company beginning with the letter B.

Best of luck though.

lukester

Good to put that down in a letter, but I'd also report the driver to the police.

blorg

nereid wrote: »

In my opinion the only set of drivers that are actually worse are the light blue coloured dumper truck company beginning with the letter B.

Aircoach doesn't start with a B?!

Raam

@Blorg: who was the mentaller we encountered heading to Waterford?

Ghost Rider

Nicely put, and I think it was a very good idea to suggest there may be a reason why the drivers are driving dangerously i.e. to try to shave seconds off their journey times. That does ask questions of company management, not just driver behaviour.

Idleater

blorg wrote: »

Aircoach doesn't start with a B?!

Silly me, no wonder the fecker never stopped when I put my hand out at the bus stop.

My commute doesn't go through/to the city centre so unfortunately I can't comment on Aircoach.

n-dawg

+1 on the complaints about aircoach....

On a positive note I've cycled in Dublin for 7 years now and the improvement in the behaviour of Dublin Bus drivers has been quite remarkable... I don't think I've had a close call with one in about 2 years!

DirkVoodoo

Very well written letter.

I find these days the "man in a rush come 7pm" using the bus lane is far more dangerous than the average dublin bus or taxi driver, the latter two providing me plenty of room in the bus lane recently, no beeping either. Have no experience with JJ Kavanagh coaches, but people in a rush home using the bus lane seem to lack the experience and observation to cope with cyclists.

I'd like to see more Gardai around town during rush hour, but I guess that won't happen.

irishmotorist

Well put Unionman. I tried a similar approach around a year ago after a particular incident and got no reply. I followed up a couple of weeks later asking for acknowledgement of receipt and again got no reply. I gave up then, but hopefully you'll get a better response as you have some specifics in it.

unionman

irishmotorist wrote: »

Well put Unionman. I tried a similar approach around a year ago after a particular incident and got no reply. I followed up a couple of weeks later asking for acknowledgement of receipt and again got no reply. I gave up then, but hopefully you'll get a better response as you have some specifics in it.

Thanks. I have little expectation of a response. If it even gets a conversation going among the drivers I would consider that a result, though I will never know if it does.

My dad drives for another firm (he is retired from Bus Eireann), and assures me that JJ Kavanaghs have a woeful reputation among the general community of bus drivers.

lukester

n-dawg wrote: »

On a positive note I've cycled in Dublin for 7 years now and the improvement in the behaviour of Dublin Bus drivers has been quite remarkable... I don't think I've had a close call with one in about 2 years!

I've had a few close calls in the last year with Dublin Bus, one of which led to me ringing them with the bus number and reg.

ROK ON

Unionman. Glad your ok. I hope that something is done about this.
I cycle up the north quays every day. The most consistent offender in terms of dangerous driving toward cyclists is IMHO JJ Kav.
Too many times have the driven aggressively up next to me.
If I see one behind me now I always pull to the middle of the lane just to ensure my visibility and safety.

I suggest that you inform them that you will take up your complaint with the Garda Carriage office. If you have a complaint with taxis that where you would go, maybe the same with buses?

ashleey

The private hire bus companies compete on how much more quickly they can get you from kilkenny to the airport compared to the 'official' service and to hell with anyone who gets in their way. It's the same with haulage companies. Glad you're ok. Best advice is to make them queue up behind you by staying away from the kerb until the road gets wider.
There isn't a perfect solution until the cops start enforcing dangerous driving laws above hiding in ditches with laser guns

blorg

Raam wrote: »

@Blorg: who was the mentaller we encountered heading to Waterford?

That was a Wavin truck, very nearly took you out.

Regarding Dublin Bus, they are 99.9% OK but when they do it they are doing it deliberately to "teach you a lesson" for cycling in the bus lane rather than an off road cycle lane (I have had more than one incident on the N11 as have others, deliberate swerving into me.)

ashleey

Advice from transport for london: 'be assertive not aggressive' and if lanes are narrow 'ride in the middle of the road' and don't ride too close to the kerb full stop. That way you have room to pull in if someone driver like a you know what.

unionman

ashleey wrote: »

Advice from transport for london: 'be assertive not aggressive' and if lanes are narrow 'ride in the middle of the road' and don't ride too close to the kerb full stop. That way you have room to pull in if someone driver like a you know what.

I was riding about a metre out from the kerb in anticipation of the taxi rank queue we were approaching.

I took a much more central position after I passed the bus at the pedestrian crossing.

rubadub

Whats the story with empty coaches in bus lanes? are they allowed? i.e. I think empty taxis are not allowed unless they are on the way to collect or something. I see empty JJ coaches in the bus lane all the time, got drowned by one so have it in for them, if I knew it was worth reporting them I would.

What is the story with bus lanes in general. Seems all you have to do is have a large spacewagon, paint "micks bus" on the side and the gardai let you drive on your own in the bus lane.

stuf

Well said unionman - it's over 10 years since I lived in Inchicore and used to cycle down the quays to work but even then JJ Kav and Bernard Kav buses were the most dangerous objects on the road.

Bunnyhopper

Nicely put (and admirably calm, considering the circumstances).

The worldwidecycles blog recounts a better response from a company after a close call.
http://worldwidecyclesblog.com/?s=wesellheadstones

I wonder if a follow up in a few days telling JJK that if you don't get a satisfactory response from them then you'll put the matter in the hands of the Gardaí would be any use. Depends on whether you want the inevitable hassle of going that route. I think Daymobrew swears by Trafficwatch, iirc.

blorg

rubadub wrote: »

Whats the story with empty coaches in bus lanes? are they allowed? i.e. I think empty taxis are not allowed unless they are on the way to collect or something. I see empty JJ coaches in the bus lane all the time, got drowned by one so have it in for them, if I knew it was worth reporting them I would.

What is the story with bus lanes in general. Seems all you have to do is have a large spacewagon, paint "micks bus" on the side and the gardai let you drive on your own in the bus lane.

As far as I am aware, no, there is a specific requirement that only buses following a scheduled service are allowed, which would rule out minibuses on private hire. However this may have been changed, the Rules of the Road merely state:

Bus lanes are sections of road reserved for buses, whether public or private. Taxis and bicycles may also use some bus lanes.

Civilian_Target

Yeah, personally I would have mentioned schedule pressure from management also, because I'm sure this is a factor. But on the whole, at least a nice letter came from your close encounter.

If they don't reply, I would report them to the police also.

mfdc

Good letter, well done. ****ty bus drivers really need to be chased up, it's only a matter of time til there's a serious accident. I was run off the road coming off the Sally Gap by a coach a week before the Wicklow 200. He just motored right through like I wasn't there, I had nowhere to go but off to the side or under the back wheels - was lucky in that I landed in some scrub but it could have been much worse. Would definitely have followed it up but it happened so quick, I was on my back in the bushes and he didn't even slow down so we didn't get his plate or the company name.

roadmanmad

A few years ago, I rang Kavanaghs because a sub contractor ran me off the road. Spoke to the Top Lady at the time.

Whether they do something or not. I always feel that that personal communication or letter does have an effect.

I hope you see a response.

Al Wright

It might be worthwhile to hand in a copy to the local Garda station and register a complaint. The level of action taken by Garda appears to vary from station to station. I had a similar experience some time ago when a truck driver went to overtake although there was insufficent room to do so. I made a complaint at Garda Station in Dundrum. The Garda in question actually followed up and, I suspect that because of the drivers attitude, issued a caution to the driver.
I hope that as a result, this driver knows that the incident is on record and he shall be more careful in future.

unionman

Thanks for all the kind words today folks. As and when there is a reply (if indeed there ever is one) I will post it here.

In the meantime, if you have a near miss with a 'JJ', please add your story here.

Good night and good luck.