SI article-TdF, cycling a clash of cultures

dohouch

A well written article in Sports Illustrated


Tour de France, cycling a clash of cultures for Americans, Europeans

Lumen

Interesting read, mostly for the USAnian perspective.

LeMond had been different from his American predecessors in his talent, but he was also willing to kiss the requisite rings -- moving to Europe, learning French, and faithfully riding in support of French teammate Bernard Hinault's 1985 Tour victory

So learning French is "kissing the ring"? Wouldn't it also prove quite useful for speaking to French people?

I do wish "Americans" would learn than "European" is not a nationality

scottreynolds

who rubbed salt on his testicles until they bled so he could get a prescription for otherwise-banned cortisone

Dedication

Ireland's Stephen Roche clinched the Tour that day, clawing back seconds in the final meters before collapsing from the effort. He had to be revived at the finish, whereupon he oh-so-continentally pronounced himself "not ready for a woman just yet."

Honesty.

Ahh the TDF. Nice to see another article about doping cycling. I actually doubt there's a european wide mentality but perhaps limited to the main cycling countries. German's, with their outrageous sense of humour, don't particularly support doping. In fact in the tour on TV in Germany?

alfalad

Thats a good find and not a bad way to start the working day!

Caroline_ie

sports illustrated wrote:

the U.S. has produced, in Armstrong, the sport's most dominant performer

Not on a scale from 0 to Eddie Merckx ... LA is still quite low on that :P

blorg

@scott- cycling is on very dodgy ground in Germany in particular. German sponsors seem particularly sensitive to doping scandals and TV stations have cancelled Tour de France coverage.

The Deutschland Tour (Germany's biggest race and a ProTour event) was cancelled in the wake of the Bernard Kohl and Stefan Schumacher cases as sponsors were unwilling to sponsor what they see as a thoroughly rotten sport and TV was not going to cover it.

Chips Lovell

Where's the moral indignation when they're bagging all the sun loungers at 7am?

scottreynolds

blorg wrote: »

@scott- cycling is on very dodgy ground in Germany in particular. German sponsors seem particularly sensitive to doping scandals and TV stations have cancelled Tour de France coverage.

The Deutschland Tour (Germany's biggest race and a ProTour event) was cancelled in the wake of the Bernard Kohl and Stefan Schumacher cases as sponsors were unwilling to sponsor what they see as a thoroughly rotten sport and TV was not going to cover it.

Agreed, That was my point. The articles implies all europeans, or just the country europe, support doping. By the Germans cancelling the events, cancelling TV coverage i think its fair to say that they don't support doping and are actually taking steps to sort it out.

No positive tests is a positive

Chips Lovell

It's a good point. I think the attitude in Britain or Germany would be very different say to Spain.

scottreynolds

el tonto wrote: »

It's a good point. I think the attitude in Britain or Germany would be very different say to Spain.

and whats the attitude in Ireland ? After the horse Olympics thing I'm confused if its good or bad.... or does it only matter than you win?

DirkVoodoo

It's fine as long as it's a horse.

Damn your craft editing!

Chips Lovell

scottreynolds wrote: »

and whats the attitude in Ireland ? After the horse Olympics thing I'm confused if its good or bad.... or does it only matter than you win?

"Those lads riding the Tour de France, they're all on drugs aren't they?" At least that's the attitude I get.

Seriously though, I think we'd probably be in the Northern European "frowning with disapproval" camp, rather than the Mediterranean/Low Countries "sure what are you going to do?" camp.

Vélo

Neigh!!!

ednwireland

didnt think it was well written at all it seems to say nothing wrong over here but boy those europeans and their cycling all on drugs, conveniently forgeting the endemic problems in american football, baseball, athletics.......

i really think cycling is trying unlike many other sports. it may not be succeeding but i think it does more than many sports. and when you go back 20 years othere sports were saying no problem here until they start systematic testing, jamaica had no out of competition testing before the last olympics, suddenly a raft of sprinters appear, coincidence - you decide.

Chips Lovell

Only got a chance to read the first few pghs, but when I saw "Satre on a bike" I was throwing my eyes up to heaven.

petethedrummer

el tonto wrote: »

Seriously though, I think we'd probably be in the Northern European "frowning with disapproval" camp, rather than the Mediterranean/Low Countries "sure what are you going to do?" camp.

I dunno we've got a pretty engrained nod and wink culture here. We're probably in between the two attitudes.

Chips Lovell

petethedrummer wrote: »

I dunno we've got a pretty engrained nod and wink culture here. We're probably in between the two attitudes.

We're not sending teenage girls for blood transfusions though, as I was reading about from that Italian drug bust this morning.

Lumen

el tonto wrote: »

Only got a chance to read the first few pghs, but when I saw "Satre on a bike" I was throwing my eyes up to heaven.

Sastre, Satre, tomato, tomayto.

unionman

Lumen wrote: »

Sastre, Satre, tomato, tomayto.

I thought he meant 'Sartre on a bike'. After all, Europeans are far more existentialist than Americans aren't they?*

*Answers on a postcard to Professor Richard Dawkins

Chips Lovell

D'oh, philosophy graduate mispells Sartre's name.

unionman

el tonto wrote: »

D'oh, philosophy graduate mispells Sartre's name.

And failed former philosophy undergraduate manages to get the reference anyway*

* just don't make any references to epistomology or logic...unless you want to see a short man burst into tears...

blorg

el tonto wrote: »

Only got a chance to read the first few pghs, but when I saw "Satre on a bike" I was throwing my eyes up to heaven.

Offtopic: Sartre was no stranger to the bike and spent the summer of 1941 cycling across France with Simone de Beauvoir in an attempt to organize a resistance group. He has a bit in Being and Nothingness (written soon after), when he is talking about how appropriation is only a symbol, where he picks on the example of a bike:

Being and Nothingness wrote:

To possess a bicycle is to be able first to look at it, then to touch it. But touching is revealed as being insufficient; what is necessary is to be able to get on the bicycle and take a ride. But this gratuitous ride is likewise insufficient; it would be necessary to use the bicycle to go on some errands. And this refers us to longer uses and more complete, to long trips across France. But these trips themselves disintegrate into a thousand appropriative behaviour patterns, each of which refers to the others. Finally as one could foresee, handing over a bank-note is enough to make the bicycle belong to me, but my entire life is needed to realize this possession. In acquiring the object, I perceive that possession is an enterprise which death always renders still unachieved. ...

This is precisely why the recognition that it is impossible to possess an object involves for the for-itself a violent urge to destroy it. To destroy is to reabsorb into myself; it is to enter along with the being-in-itself of the destroyed object into a relation as profound as that of creation. ...

Destruction then is to be given a place among appropriative behaviours. Moreover many kinds of appropriative conduct have a destructive structure along with other structures. To utilize is to use. In making use of my bicycle, I use it up-wear it out; that is, continuous appropriative creation is marked by a partial destruction. This wear can cause distress for strictly practical reasons, but in the majority of cases it brings a secret joy, almost like the joy of possession; this is because it is coming from us-we are consuming. ... The bicycle gliding alone, carrying me, by its very movement is created and made mine; but this creation is deeply imprinted on the object by the light, continued wear which is impressed on it and which is like the brand on the slave.

In other words, get out and ride your bike

Lumen

Sartre wrote:

In making use of my bicycle, I use it up-wear it out

I am existentially shocked to the core to discover that the lyrics to Odyssey's 1980 disco hit single were appropriated without credit from a French philosopher.

Chips Lovell

Sartre wrote:

But this gratuitous ride is likewise insufficient

I don't know, as the man from Athlone said...

Ghost Rider

This is precisely why the recognition that it is impossible to possess an object involved for the for-itself a violent urge to destroy it. To destroy is to reabsorb into myself; it is to enter along with the being-in-itself of the destroyed object into a relation as profound as that of creation. ...

See, this is all your avarage vandal needs to justify tossing someone's prized steed into the Liffey. Woe betide us if a skip-load of remaindered copies of "Being and Nothingness" finds its way into the hands of the bike wrecking community after the Velib scheme takes off.

Not only will those nice white bikes all end up in the river, we'll end up with a generation of God-dodging, angst-ridden, tracksuit-wearing existentialists. Politically they'll probably be only slightly to the right of Lenin too, I shouldn't wonder. It'll be a nation of fear and trembling and Dutch Gold and Johnny Blue. And the nausea? It'll put Temple Bar to shame.

Ghost Rider

Thought the article was really good, by the way. Certainly shed a lot of light (for me) on the sociology of cycling in Europe as compared to the US.

DirkVoodoo

Philosophy? Sociology? This is nearly as mind numbing and pointless as cycling out to the park at 9am on a saturday morning.

Ghost Rider

Drier, though.

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Philosophy? Sociology? This is nearly as mind numbing and pointless as cycling out to the park at 9am on a saturday morning.

Running Bing

I thought aside from the us vs them tone it was a pretty decent article.

Its hard to argue too much with the main conclusion, namely there is a culture in certain countries that says doping is acceptable that would seem reprehensible to most American sports fans, and I dont think the article was as preachy or as condescending as one would expect it to be.

Cycling is a strange sport tbh, it is what it is and I cant see it changing anytime soon.

As for us Irish I would say we are very against doping as a nation. Look at Michele Smith, if that was in France or Spain or Italy she would probably still be heralded as a hero but over here the whole thing is just too suspicious. Also I think in general Irish athletes are very anti-doping and most would be afraid of their lives to dope or touch anything dodgy.

dave2pvd

Running Bing wrote: »

Michele Smith.....if that was in France or Spain or Italy she would probably still be heralded as a hero

You've reminded me of something. This is a bit off-topic, mind you.

Michelle Smith is still celebrated somewhere. At the base of the Olympic Flame structure on Fulton Street in Atlanta, Georgia, is a smooth granite wall with all of the '96 medalists' names engraved on it. In celebration of her 'achievements', her name appears four times.

I pass by this wall of fame that celebrates Michelle every working day.

Running Bing

dave2pvd wrote: »

You've reminded me of something. This is a bit off-topic, mind you.

Michelle Smith is still celebrated somewhere. At the base of the Olympic Flame structure on Fulton Street in Atlanta, Georgia, is a smooth granite wall with all of the '96 medalists' names engraved on it. In celebration of her 'achievements', her name appears four times.

I pass by this wall of fame that celebrates Michelle every working day.

I cant figure out if your being facetious or not:P

dave2pvd

Running Bing wrote: »

I cant figure out if your being facetious or not:P

facetious when using the words 'achievements', and 'celebrates'. The rest is fact; her name is there and I pass by it almost every day. It mocks me.....I remember those exciting times. I was right here when she was standing on the podium. And Janet whatsherhorse was slinging mud saying it just wasn't possible for a 2nd rate athlete to improve so quickly. She was right....

Anyway, back on topic....what was the topic again?

petethedrummer

dave2pvd wrote: »

And Janet whatsherhorse was slinging mud saying it just wasn't possible for a 2nd rate athlete to improve so quickly.

Janet Evans was right, but was later under suspicion herself.

Running Bing wrote: »

namely there is a culture in certain countries that says doping is acceptable that would seem reprehensible to most American sports fans,

Hmmm then alot of them must be ignoring what has been going on in NFL, Baseball and their Track & Field teams for the last 30 years.

dave2pvd

petethedrummer wrote: »

Janet Evans was right, but was later under suspicion herself.

Hmmm then alot of them must be ignoring what has been going on in NFL, Baseball and their Track & Field teams for the last 30 years.

That was her. I remember her whine well. Didn't realise she was under scrutiny for anything....must Google.

As far as doping on US sports goes, it's widely acknowledged and true sports fans here have no stomach for it (unlike dog fighting). The testing and sanctions for NFL, MLB and NBA are fairly pathetic. Not so for track and field. As an example of peoples' distaste for doping over here, there are many baseball fans that refuse to accept Barry Bond's home-run record, or think the record books should have an asterisk beside his name. Of course, the fact that he's a douche bag doesn't help his cause.