Bord snippage

PCros

Heres all the snips......source is RTE.


OUTLINE OF PROPOSALS

Social and Family Affairs

* Cuts to all social welfare payments by 5% - €850m

* Reduction and changes to child benefit - €513m

* An end to receiving two welfare payments - €100m

* An end to payments for Community Employment Schemes for those already on benefit - €100m

* Cutting benefits for dental, optical and hearing services - €92m

* Grading of jobseekers allowance by age - €70m

* Cutting the Family Support Agency - €30m

* Changing eligibility for Family Income Supplement - €20m

* Taxing household benefits package - €11.6m

The full thing can be seen on their website.

IT Loser

PCros wrote: »

Heres all the snips......source is RTE.


OUTLINE OF PROPOSALS

Social and Family Affairs

* Cuts to all social welfare payments by 5% - €850m

* Reduction and changes to child benefit - €513m

* An end to receiving two welfare payments - €100m

* An end to payments for Community Employment Schemes for those already on benefit - €100m

* Cutting benefits for dental, optical and hearing services - €92m

* Grading of jobseekers allowance by age - €70m

* Cutting the Family Support Agency - €30m

* Changing eligibility for Family Income Supplement - €20m

* Taxing household benefits package - €11.6m

The full thing can be seen on their website.

Apparently 70 people or so have read this, and then sat back, in total shock, unable to type!!!

€10 off my JSA. I can live with that.

What I cant figure out, however, is the Grading of JSA by Age......thats something which is ripe for subjective f*ckery.

Nolanger

PCros wrote: »

* Cutting the Family Support Agency - €30m

Who care about this? Even people working in the dole office don't know about them.

chasm

IT Loser wrote: »

Apparently 70 people or so have read this, and then sat back, in total shock, unable to type!!!

€10 off my JSA. I can live with that.

What I cant figure out, however, is the Grading of JSA by Age......thats something which is ripe for subjective f*ckery.

Just glanced over the document on the dept. of finance website- unreal!!
Where were these economists before this recession kicked in, because they sure as hell weren't advising the govt then, If these cuts are anything to go by.

We seem to be turning to the uk system- pay for prescriptions and grading the JA.

Not hit too badly IF they only cut payments by 5%, have budgetted for 10% myself-but dont tell them that!!! Glad i dont have kids though-lots of cuts going on there by the looks of it.

LINKS: http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0716/economy1.html

http://www.finance.gov.ie/ViewDoc.asp?fn=/home.asp

If they go ahead with all the cuts in the report this country wont be worth living in.

amacachi

IT Loser wrote: »

Apparently 70 people or so have read this, and then sat back, in total shock, unable to type!!!

€10 off my JSA. I can live with that.

What I cant figure out, however, is the Grading of JSA by Age......thats something which is ripe for subjective f*ckery.

Aye, work from when you're 16, lose employment at 19 and you're entitled to less than some 50 year old ****er who hasn't worked a day in his life, totally fair.

TBH most of the cuts to SW seem fair enough to me, what I don't like is how much workers are going to be penalised, just moving more and more people into the better-off-not-working bracket.

jenzz

Forgive me if im wrong but if they are gonna get rid of all those public sector workers is the cost of paying them JSA or whatever not going to outway the cost of paying them? The JSA payout & the loss of PAYE???

& 20% of the kiddies allow? plus €500 to their parents for school transport??

None of this is making much sense.

AN BORD SNIPPAGE - they could have paid me a couple of K & i would have had some better suggestions

1. Stop wasting my bloody tax payers money on stupid ideas such as an bord snip
2. Stop wasting tax payers time in having to listen to this mess
3.i wont bother going on ..............

jenzz

Nolanger wrote: »

Who care about this? Even people working in the dole office don't know about them.

Are the family support agency the people who help you get divorced?? Cant even get divorced in peace now lol

IT Loser

amacachi wrote: »

Aye, work from when you're 16, lose employment at 19 and you're entitled to less than some 50 year old ****er who hasn't worked a day in his life, totally fair.

TBH most of the cuts to SW seem fair enough to me, what I don't like is how much workers are going to be penalised, just moving more and more people into the better-off-not-working bracket.

In fairness, the opposite is more likely to be true.

When you are 50 years of age, were out of work for 1 year, and have worked all the rest, and some 21 year old kid who has made maybe a very small percentage of the welfare payments you have is getting the same amount.

jenzz

IT Loser wrote: »

In fairness, the opposite is more likely to be true.

When you are 50 years of age, were out of work for 1 year, and have worked all the rest, and some 21 year old kid who has made maybe a very small percentage of the welfare payments you have is getting the same amount.

I think the main fact here is they are attacking the most vulnerable again. The poor, the kids, the sick & those in education. But their decisions are not going to better anything. The more they make unemployed the more they pay out. Dental, hearing , vision all to be affected. For kids appointments its a nightmare as it is.

Can feel a day of protest or strikes looming.

chasm

I reckon a lot more parents will be driving their kids to school if they introduce a E500 charge for school transport.

jenzz

chasm wrote: »

I reckon a lot more parents will be driving their kids to school if they introduce a E500 charge.

Only problem there is the amount of Dads who lost their jobs & the company cars with it & the amount of mams who had the SUV's repossessed the first time they missed the payment.

Bikes !

But then again - they will put a tax of them.....

Arsenal1986

Any1 hazard a guess as to how much the age grading of JSA could reduce it by? It surely wouldnt be massivley dramatic if they envisage it only saving 70 million?

amacachi

IT Loser wrote: »

In fairness, the opposite is more likely to be true.

When you are 50 years of age, were out of work for 1 year, and have worked all the rest, and some 21 year old kid who has made maybe a very small percentage of the welfare payments you have is getting the same amount.

Point is either example is unfair and using age rather than employment history is a ridiculous concept.

IT Loser

amacachi wrote: »

Point is either example is unfair and using age rather than employment history is a ridiculous concept.

Which is what I said, first time out.:)

amacachi

IT Loser wrote: »

Which is what I said, first time out.:)

Just clarifying my own position as well.

IT Loser

chasm wrote: »

Just glanced over the document on the dept. of finance website- unreal!!
Where were these economists before this recession kicked in, because they sure as hell weren't advising the govt then, If these cuts are anything to go by.

We seem to be turning to the uk system- pay for prescriptions and grading the JA.

Not hit too badly IF they only cut payments by 5%, have budgetted for 10% myself-but dont tell them that!!! Glad i dont have kids though-lots of cuts going on there by the looks of it.

LINKS: http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0716/economy1.html

http://www.finance.gov.ie/ViewDoc.asp?fn=/home.asp

If they go ahead with all the cuts in the report this country wont be worth living in.

WHat an Bord Snip have presented is an economical, financial plan.

Now the Politicians, whose jobs depend on their response, will formulate a POLITICAL response, which will be somewhat smoother and less harsh for all concerned.

chasm

Arsenal1986 wrote: »

Any1 hazard a guess as to how much the age grading of JSA could reduce it by? It surely wouldnt be massivley dramatic if they envisage it only saving 70 million?

RTE reported that the report recommends that 20-25 year olds should get their JSA reduced to E150.

IT Loser

WHat an Bord Snip have presented is an economical, financial plan.

Now the Politicians, whose jobs depend on their response, will formulate a POLITICAL response, which will be somewhat smoother and less harsh for all concerned.

Furthermore, it is July. The Snip had this to say at pages 68-69:

"More will be known about pay and price developments closer to the budget of December next- the Government will be in a better position THEN to make a judgement on the matter in light of those data"

In other words- nothing is likely to get changed until December.

amacachi

chasm wrote: »

RTE reported that the report recommends that 20-25 year olds should get their JSA reduced to E150.

Goddamnit. :pac:

IT Loser

amacachi wrote: »

Goddamnit. :pac:

For once, I am grateful for my advancing years:D

Xiney

chasm wrote: »

RTE reported that the report recommends that 20-25 year olds should get their JSA reduced to E150.

I wonder if that will apply if you're married/already on JSA.

chasm

Xiney wrote: »

I wonder if that will apply if you're married/already on JSA.

I see a surge in the number of young couples getting married Lol Does the registry office cost much?

Balagan

chasm wrote: »

RTE reported that the report recommends that 20-25 year olds should get their JSA reduced to E150.

It's in relation to new claimants aged 20 to 24.......

"C.1 Grading of Jobseeker’s Allowance by age
Jobseekers Allowance is a means-tested payment payable in respect of any week of unemployment.
The Supplementary Budget 2009 contained a measure reducing the personal rate of Jobseeker’s
Allowance for new claimants less than 20 years of age to €100 a week from the first week of May
2009. Consistent with this approach, the Group recommends that the personal rate for new
claimants between the ages of 20 and 24 be reduced to €150 yielding an estimated full year saving
of €70m. The Group is of the view that there should be consistency between the graduation of the
Jobseekers Allowance and the graduation of the minimum wage. If such changes are adopted, it is
important to ensure that no replacement ratio issues arise from the interaction of the tax and welfare
systems."

amacachi

Balagan wrote: »

It's in relation to new claimants aged 20 to 24.......

YES!!!!!!! Would make a massive difference for me to be cut 50 quid a week. Still thinking about pissing off to Canada though.

Balagan

Sweet Jesus. Third Level Ed goes out the door for the unemployed who don't live in town/city where college is located. An Bord Snip Nua recommends Back to Education Allowance OR Maintenance Grant.


"In
addition, the Group considers that the current situation whereby unemployed students who return to
full-time education under the Department of Social & Family Affairs funded Back to Education
Allowance (BTEA) are also eligible to apply for a D/E&S student maintenance grant under this
scheme should be changed. The Group considers that students should be entitled to apply for either
- 70 -
a BTEA allowance or a student maintenance grant, but not both. It is therefore recommended that
BTEA recipients should not be eligible for further support under the D/E&S Student Maintenance
Grant Scheme."

IT Loser

Xiney wrote: »

I wonder if that will apply if you're married/already on JSA.

Exactly what I was thinking- will the recommendations, if enacted, be prospective {from here on only} or retrospective {covers all those on and to-be-on the welfare}

My guess is it is Retrospective- I mean, how many more new 20-25 yoa people can they get onto the welfare, in particular, JSA.

Its going to be Retro. Has to be.

Sephiroth_dude

there talking about a 5% cut on all welfare payments?whats 5% of 204.30?

billy the squid

About 11 euro

IT Loser

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

there talking about a 5% cut on all welfare payments?whats 5% of 204.30?

One-Twentieth basically. Call it a tenner. I can live with that.

Arsenal1986

the drop to 150 would be for new people onto JSA if you are already on it in that age group your fine, from a reading of the above quoted excerpt thats what i think anyhow....

cashew

The child benefit proposals though are ludicrous! Why are they targeting families specifically again, did we not already take enough of an extra hit from the removal of the early childcare supplement?
I am a working mother with two children - one of which is under 5. The supplementary budget in April has already told us that we will be down €1000 next year because we will no longer have the ECS, along with all the other levies and cuts that everyone else has had to bear. Now if these proposals are to be introduced, that would reduce our family budget by a further €60 a month - that would mean a total loss of €1,720 on top of any additional taxes and levies that are introduced for next year! On top of that there are proposals to increase class sizes, reductions in rural schools, various grants to schools to be cut so more is asked of parents to contribute (my sister in law has already been asked to contribute €50 a week towards a classroom assistant salary as there is no longer the funding available and it is needed in her sons class of 32!!) etc.
I understand that we are in an economic crisis, we have to tighten our belts, we all have to pay our fair share, etc and I would be quite happy to pay my fair share! But, these proposals are unfairly targeting families - why should we have to shoulder more of the burden and pay more towards getting us all out of this mess?! The proposals for child benefit are wrong and will just put more families into poverty!

steve McQueen

An end to receiving two welfare payments - €100m

Does this mean those in receipt of JSA will lose their rent aloowence?

IT Loser

cashew wrote: »

The child benefit proposals though are ludicrous! Why are they targeting families specifically again, did we not already take enough of an extra hit from the removal of the early childcare supplement?
I am a working mother with two children - one of which is under 5. The supplementary budget in April has already told us that we will be down €1000 next year because we will no longer have the ECS, along with all the other levies and cuts that everyone else has had to bear. Now if these proposals are to be introduced, that would reduce our family budget by a further €60 a month - that would mean a total loss of €1,720 on top of any additional taxes and levies that are introduced for next year! On top of that there are proposals to increase class sizes, reductions in rural schools, various grants to schools to be cut so more is asked of parents to contribute (my sister in law has already been asked to contribute €50 a week towards a classroom assistant salary as there is no longer the funding available and it is needed in her sons class of 32!!) etc.
I understand that we are in an economic crisis, we have to tighten our belts, we all have to pay our fair share, etc and I would be quite happy to pay my fair share! But, these proposals are unfairly targeting families - why should we have to shoulder more of the burden and pay more towards getting us all out of this mess?! The proposals for child benefit are wrong and will just put more families into poverty!

Succesive Irish Governments and countless NGO's have done nothing under than destroy and ignore the Constitutional obligation to protect the family and the child. They have done this by affording ridiculous payments to single mothers and allowing for the proliferation of pro-abortion QUANGOS. The disrespect of the mother and the child is not a new concept, unfortunately.

IT Loser

cashew wrote: »

The child benefit proposals though are ludicrous! Why are they targeting families specifically again, did we not already take enough of an extra hit from the removal of the early childcare supplement?
I am a working mother with two children - one of which is under 5. The supplementary budget in April has already told us that we will be down €1000 next year because we will no longer have the ECS, along with all the other levies and cuts that everyone else has had to bear. Now if these proposals are to be introduced, that would reduce our family budget by a further €60 a month - that would mean a total loss of €1,720 on top of any additional taxes and levies that are introduced for next year! On top of that there are proposals to increase class sizes, reductions in rural schools, various grants to schools to be cut so more is asked of parents to contribute (my sister in law has already been asked to contribute €50 a week towards a classroom assistant salary as there is no longer the funding available and it is needed in her sons class of 32!!) etc.
I understand that we are in an economic crisis, we have to tighten our belts, we all have to pay our fair share, etc and I would be quite happy to pay my fair share! But, these proposals are unfairly targeting families - why should we have to shoulder more of the burden and pay more towards getting us all out of this mess?! The proposals for child benefit are wrong and will just put more families into poverty!

Succesive Irish Governments and countless NGO's have done nothing other than destroy and undermine the Constitutional obligation to protect the family and the child. They have done this by affording ridiculous payments to single mothers and allowing for the proliferation of pro-abortion QUANGOS. The disrespect of the mother and the child is not a new concept, unfortunately.

Xiney

steve McQueen wrote: »

Does this mean those in receipt of JSA will lose their rent aloowence?

I don't think that's what it means.

I think it means they're going to be making sure that "single" people on JA/JB really are, that they're not living with their partners.

IT Loser

We wont know for sure about anything until the Government sits down after the Lisbon treaty. So we are talking October, at the earliest, I reckons.

miec

Quote:
An end to receiving two welfare payments - €100m
Does this mean those in receipt of JSA will lose their rent aloowence?

No, what they are referring to is when a person gets one payment for example: lone parent or job seekers assistance, they go to college or attend a Fas scheme / VEC training programme, at present, they get a training allowance, hence two payments, they suggest only giving people one payment, I am not sure if they want to abolish training costs or amalgamate it into one. At the moment people on a CE scheme get two payments, either dole/lone parent or disability and a payment from FAS, the report suggests merging these, but how remains to be seen.

Judging from what I've read on the report they are looking to centralise as many offices/ departments/ advisory boards / enteprise boards / community services etc, there are often two or more advisorary boards giving the same service so the report makes sense in that way, but it result in massive job losses that may increase unemployment. Some measures are really tough, and for those who say its okay to lose a tenner from their benefits are mad to go along with that. It is okay if you are single, living at home with your parents but for those who rent or have a mortgage and children, every single penny counts, so I hope they will not reduce welfare payments. Things are tight enough as it is and considering those who are unemployed and may be for some time, things like clothes have to be renewed, getting a hair cut etc all add to the strain, it is not so bad if one is unemployed for a month but the longer it goes the tougher it gets.

pigeonbutler

cashew wrote: »

The child benefit proposals though are ludicrous! Why are they targeting families specifically again, did we not already take enough of an extra hit from the removal of the early childcare supplement?
I am a working mother with two children - one of which is under 5. The supplementary budget in April has already told us that we will be down €1000 next year because we will no longer have the ECS, along with all the other levies and cuts that everyone else has had to bear. Now if these proposals are to be introduced, that would reduce our family budget by a further €60 a month - that would mean a total loss of €1,720 on top of any additional taxes and levies that are introduced for next year! On top of that there are proposals to increase class sizes, reductions in rural schools, various grants to schools to be cut so more is asked of parents to contribute (my sister in law has already been asked to contribute €50 a week towards a classroom assistant salary as there is no longer the funding available and it is needed in her sons class of 32!!) etc.
I understand that we are in an economic crisis, we have to tighten our belts, we all have to pay our fair share, etc and I would be quite happy to pay my fair share! But, these proposals are unfairly targeting families - why should we have to shoulder more of the burden and pay more towards getting us all out of this mess?! The proposals for child benefit are wrong and will just put more families into poverty!

The short answer is because everybody is part of a family! Most government expenditure is on public sector pay and on welfare payments. There's very little substantial saving that can be made in any other area. 1 out of every 3 euros the government spends this year is borrowed. Cuts that effect everybody have to be made, painful as it is. If we don't make very harsh cuts now the cuts necessary in 2 or 3 years time will be even worse because of the amount of debt the State will have racked up. There's no good on making passionate pleas about how tough this is for people as that doesn't change the economic reality.

Of course the easy political point to make here is to suggest that everything would be fine and dandy if we just either (a) taxed the super-rich or (b) stopped "bailing out the banks".

(b) doesn't stand up because the government spending that's driving all our borrowing is normal spending and nothing to do with the bank guarantee scheme.

(a) has limited merit because they're are so few "super rich" in the population that any taxes high enough to raise significant sums would drive those people away and discourage them from taking risks by setting up businesses and thus creating employment.

Demonique

PCros wrote: »

* An end to receiving two welfare payments - €100m

What does receiving two welfare payments mean? Like getting both Jobseekers and Disability at the same time? I thought you couldn't do that anyway.

cee_jay

Demonique wrote: »

What does receiving two welfare payments mean? Like getting both Jobseekers and Disability at the same time? I thought you couldn't do that anyway.

There are some payments that you can receive together - you cannot receive Jobseekers and Illness together though.
For example, you are able to claim One Parent Family, and half rate Carer's/Disability/Jobseekers/Maternity Benefit.

DJDC

* Seeing the welfare frauds squirm as the Irish government are forced to become increasingly difficult to catch out....priceless

miec

* Seeing the welfare frauds squirm as the Irish government are forced to become increasingly difficult to catch out....priceless

This attitude is sad, it is a shame the government does not use the same approach with the banks, considering they have screwed us all royally for billions of euros, is it any wonder people try to screw the system when the top layer is so corrupt.

Also whilst the focus of the bord snip has been cutting social welfare, which according to page 6 of the report (Vol.1) 37% (21 billion euro) of the entire budget goes on social welfare payments and 35% (19.8 billion euro) goes on exchequer pay and pensions and the rest goes on other programmes (15.8 billion euros). They recommend cuts all across the economy, however, most of the measures will in actual fact exacberate the recession and increase the social welfare budget, so any perceived savings will be swallowed up by those additional people who are thrown on the scrap heap, so clap your hands together and whoop at that one whilst your at it - and do note that the reason the country is in deficit, having been in the black for so long, was because of the .... banks

I hope the reduction to €150 for 20-25 year olds only applies to new claimants. Although it would personally affect me, I tink it's a little ridiculous to take someone who is trying to get by on €200 to be reduced to €150. It's bad enough if you are just starting with the €150, but to be used to €200 and be reduced, i imagine the €50 will be sorely missed.



I have a question though, remember they changed it so that under 20's dole was cut to €100? They said that only affected new claimants. During the change-over, a 19 year old girl was on a FAS course with me. When she finished the course and signed back on the dole, would she have been reduced to €150 or would she be back on €204? I never seen her since the course so I don't know how she got on.

I guess what I'm asking is, does "new claimaint" mean an entirely unique claim altogether, or does it affect people returning to the dole?


Thing is, I have the opportunity to get in a FAS course at the end of August, and although I really, genuinely want to do the course and learn about the subject at hand, I don't want to cost myself €50 per week for every week thereafter for trying to better my knowledge.


anyone got any insight there at all?