Ammo Laws

bibyrnez

Hey lads what are the ammo laws in Ireland and whats needed to buy ammo e.g firearm cert i.d

Victor

You need a licence and the licence specifies a limit.

rrpc

Victor wrote: »

You need a licence and the licence specifies a limit.

And the calibre.

It's a firearms licence because you obviously don't need to buy ammunition unless you own a firearm to use it.

bibyrnez

Yes but im down from the north and i have my spas with me and i ran out of rounds yesterday so i am f**ked till i go back up?

Rosahane

bibyrnez wrote: »

Yes but im down from the north and i have my spas with me and i ran out of rounds yesterday so i am f**ked till i go back up?

If you have a firearm down here with you you presumably have a licence in the south. If so you can but ammo in any gunshop on production of the licence.

If you haven't a licence let us know your details and location and we will solve the no ammo situation quickly:cool:

bibyrnez

I have a northren licence :P so the Gunshop mightnet me to happy.Im only looking for some 2 3/4 shells just 10 because theres these fat jusicy rabits around Kerry

Sparks

bibyrnez, if you're down here with a firearm and a N.Ireland FAC, you're in possession of an unlicenced firearm, which is fairly solidly illegal.
The FAC's pretty much worthless in the ROI.

Our man in Havana

No dealer is going to sell you ammo without a valid FAC issued by the Gardaí.

rowa

bibyrnez wrote: »

I have a northren licence :P so the Gunshop mightnet me to happy.Im only looking for some 2 3/4 shells just 10 because theres these fat jusicy rabits around Kerry

if you're stopped by a guard , you're in a heap of trouble ,

it amazes me that a licence is needed for air gun pellets , inert pieces of lead !

CJhaughey

Troll methinks, SPAS, Northern FAC, seems a bit unlikely.

bibyrnez

Thansk for the help lads,i went to the local Garda station spoke to a very nice Super and he gave me a temp Irish FAC for 10 rounds of 2 3/4

CJhaughey wrote: »

Troll methinks, SPAS, Northern FAC, seems a bit unlikely.

Your a awful ass,just becasue i have a combat shotgun and im from the north dosnt mean im a Para or what ever your head thinks

rrpc

I wouldn't assume troll straight off, some people are totally ignorant of the firearms laws here and everyone has responded correctly to his posts.

To the OP

For us to shoot in Northern Ireland, we need a visitor's permit sponsored by a resident of NI and issued by the PSNI.

For someone from NI to shoot in Ireland, they need a full firearms certificate isssued by the Gardai, the details of which can be found on the Garda website: www.garda.ie

The cost of this is €25 for a shotgun and €38 for a rifle/pistol for a year. It's also helpful to have an EU firearms pass which is free.

Iin the very near future we are switching to a three year licence and the cost of this is estimated to be somewhere between €80 and €100 for any type of firearm. You need a separate certificate for each firearm licensed.

Hope this clears up everything for you.

I'm sure the Gardai in Kerry are far too busy to be stopping and searching every NI registered vehicle they see :eek:

rrpc

bibyrnez wrote: »

Thansk for the help lads,i went to the local Garda station spoke to a very nice Super and he gave me a temp Irish FAC for 10 rounds of 2 3/4

Excellent result! Give that Super a clap on the back for sensible aplication of the firearms laws and helping the tourist industry.

Enjoy your shooting bibyrnez

bibyrnez

rrpc wrote: »

I wouldn't assume troll straight off, some people are totally ignorant of the firearms laws here and everyone has responded correctly to his posts.

To the OP

For us to shoot in Northern Ireland, we need a visitor's permit sponsored by a resident of NI and issued by the PSNI.

For someone from NI to shoot in Ireland, they need a full firearms certificate isssued by the Gardai, the details of which can be found on the Garda website: www.garda.ie

The cost of this is €25 for a shotgun and €38 for a rifle/pistol for a year. It's also helpful to have an EU firearms pass which is free.

Iin the very near future we are switching to a three year licence and the cost of this is estimated to be somewhere between €80 and €100 for any type of firearm. You need a separate certificate for each firearm licensed.

Hope this clears up everything for you.

I'm sure the Gardai in Kerry are far too busy to be stopping and searching every NI registered vehicle they see :eek:

What dose Troll mean exactly guys?

Yea i was talking to the Super and he basicly issued me with a tempory FAC.Up north you dont need a cert to buy ammo,well iv never been asked before

rrpc

bibyrnez wrote: »

What dose Troll mean exactly guys?

Someone who posts on a forum something controversial or insulting in order to get a reaction.

Yea i was talking to the Super and he basicly issued me with a tempory FAC.Up north you dont need a cert to buy ammo,well iv never been asked before

Actually, you do. Your FAC is supposed to be a record of your ammo purchases for the lifetime of that FAC. The dealer is supposed to record the details on one of the pages (can't remember which).

The temporary FAC is called a permit or authorisation and is within the Super's powers to issue to anyone. That's why I said it was such a sensible approach.

bibyrnez

rrpc wrote: »

Someone who posts on a forum something controversial or insulting in order to get a reaction.


Actually, you do. Your FAC is supposed to be a record of your ammo purchases for the lifetime of that FAC. The dealer is supposed to record the details on one of the pages (can't remember which).

So if im serched up north and i have un recorded rounds i could get in trouble so?I better get on to my dealer so,

rrpc

bibyrnez wrote: »

So if im serched up north and i have un recorded rounds i could get in trouble so?I better get on to my dealer so,

I'm not sure if it's you or the dealer who gets a slap on the wrist. If you're over your limit (I presume you still have ammo limits on the NI FAC?) then you would be in trouble alright.

bibyrnez

rrpc wrote: »

I'm not sure if it's you or the dealer who gets a slap on the wrist. If you're over your limit (I presume you still have ammo limits on the NI FAC?) then you would be in trouble alright.

Yes theres a limit im limited to 25 .410 and 20 2 3/4-15 buckshot

rrpc

bibyrnez wrote: »

Yes theres a limit im limited to 25 .410 and 20 2 3/4-15 buckshot

Those are very low limits. The standard limit here is 100 rounds of anything usually. Is this because of the firearm you have?

bibyrnez

Tbh im not sure maybe becasue lads were selling the rounds for paras to make IEDs so they limit it.But my Spas 12 (frenchie) is a 9 round nternal mag but is ment to be redused to 3 rounds so i wouldnt imagine its the gun itself maybe just its combat potental

As for the .410 rounds im useing a BSA .410 bold action shotgun shes old but lovly some would say a ladys shotgun but i think its sweet

Sikamick

bibyrnez wrote: »

Hey lads what are the ammo laws in Ireland and whats needed to buy ammo e.g firearm cert i.d

________________________________________________________________

Some good Info on this Link http://www.nargc.ie/site.aspx NARGC FRONT page.

It helps to let you see that there are people out there helping us.

Read and get informed.


Sikamick

BornToKill

rrpc wrote: »

Excellent result! Give that Super a clap on the back for sensible aplication of the firearms laws and helping the tourist industry.

Enjoy your shooting bibyrnez

What what??? Jeez if the OP ended up being prosecuted for breaching the firearms acts -and he could have been - you'd be giving out. How can people go on about inconsistency on the part of Supers but then applaud selective or 'sensible' application when it suits?

I don't understand this.

westwicklow

may be worth looking at this:
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Non-residents_shooting_in_Ireland

ivanthehunter

bibyrnez wrote: »

What dose Troll mean exactly guys?

Yea i was talking to the Super and he basicly issued me with a tempory FAC.Up north you dont need a cert to buy ammo,well iv never been asked before

Interesting story and a good result for you but IMO you were lucky;).

PS Trolling is really a method or style of fishing. Simply the fishermen drift with the tide (along the shoar line) and cast the nets at the best spots for maximum gain. So a cyber troll is someone he crashes a thread at the correct time with an outrageous post in order to gain maximum exposure and maximum response.

ivanthehunter

I think that this is also relevant:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2000/en/act/pub/0020/sec0002.html#sec2

Grizzly 45

bibyrnez wrote: »

Tbh im not sure maybe becasue lads were selling the rounds for paras to make IEDs so they limit it.

But my Spas 12 (frenchie) is a 9 round nternal mag but is ment to be redused to 3 rounds so i wouldnt imagine its the gun itself maybe just its combat potental

No Game hunting laws..It is jolly unsporting old chap to blaze away at game with more than three shots up in NI ,ROI and the UKwith one of those contraptions. But perfectly ok and jolly good sport to have a loader with you to keep up a rate of fire from a grouse butt with two dbbl barrels,that would shame any semi.:eek:
A SPAS.Thats a hefty yoke to be lugging out on a shooting trip.Paddle saftey or button saftey?

As for the .410 rounds im useing a BSA .410 bold action shotgun shes old but lovly some would say a ladys shotgun but i think its sweet

Actually known as a "Garden gun "that type[BSA].Ladies calibres are usually 20,24and 28 and 410 being considerd a "youths or garden gun";)

Grizzly 45

BornToKill wrote: »

What what??? Jeez if the OP ended up being prosecuted for breaching the firearms acts -and he could have been - you'd be giving out. How can people go on about inconsistency on the part of Supers but then applaud selective or 'sensible' application when it suits?

I don't understand this.

Maybe because the Super handled this with common sense logically and diplomatically?
Lad is from NI,has NI FAC,[obviously not a criminal]has gun,wanted to be on right side of the ROI law,[Shows responsibility],presents himself at Garda station to explain the situation etc[Where he could have been arrested,causing much trouble and headache and paperwork for all involved] and that he wants to shoot over the weekend,Super issues a extremly limited temp FAC for ROI[And proably lecture on making sure paperwork is in order for next visit by bibyrnez.:D]
Ergo,a most sensible and wise Superintendant,who didnt see a need to make Mount Everest from a mole hill.Would that there more of his/her like.
Ignoreance of the law...etc etc..But then the law must be comprehensible to the common man so he cannot be ignorant of it.

rrpc

BornToKill wrote: »

What what??? Jeez if the OP ended up being prosecuted for breaching the firearms acts -and he could have been - you'd be giving out. How can people go on about inconsistency on the part of Supers but then applaud selective or 'sensible' application when it suits?

I don't understand this.

I actually don't understand your attitude BtK. The Super acted correctly in my opinion. The chap was in this jurisdiction with a firearm that he had a NI FAC for and no Irish FAC. I know ignorancia juris reminem excusat and all that, but the guy is obviously a licence holder, has inadvertently ended up in the district without the proper paperwork and the Super decided to issue the correct paperwork with the minimum of fuss.

And how would my 'giving out' about a possible prosecution be inconsistent with my applauding the Super for fixing the problem? Prosecuting the guy would have been completely pointless and would have only damaged our tourist industry.

If you read the thread fully, I gave complete instructions as did others on the correct way to deal with the situation in future. There was not much any of us could do other than advise him to go home with the firearm or talk to the Gardai. He chose the latter course and got the right result.

At the end of the day, the local Super is the man who gets to make the decisions and that's totally in line with the firearms acts.

BornToKill

rrpc wrote: »

At the end of the day, the local Super is the man who gets to make the decisions and that's totally in line with the firearms acts.

Not quite now, rrpc. The local Superintendent makes his/her decisions in accordance with the firearms law and many would be quick to criticise if he did not or began making up laws.

In this case the OP has travelled from NI all the way down to Kerry with a SPAS which is not licensed for import, possession or use in the Republic. You don't see any problem with that?

I'm frankly amazed that anyone would put a gun into their car or a bag and set off for another jurisdiction (and I am not inviting a political argument on N. Ireland) without thinking to make enquiries and get the paperwork in place.

Our man in Havana

I'm frankly amazed that anyone would put a gun into their car or a bag and set off for another jurisdiction (and I am not inviting a political argument on N. Ireland) without thinking to make enquiries and get the paperwork in place.

I agree 100% with you.

rrpc

BornToKill wrote: »

Not quite now, rrpc. The local Superintendent makes his/her decisions in accordance with the firearms law and many would be quick to criticise if he did not or began making up laws.

And what he did was completely in accordance with the law. He had two choices: prosecute the guy for possession of an unlicensed firearm or give hime an authorisation to cover his mistake. That's completely within his powers and not at all inconsistent with anything.

In this case the OP has travelled from NI all the way down to Kerry with a SPAS which is not licensed for import, possession or use in the Republic. You don't see any problem with that?

Yes I do and pointed it out to the OP as to the error of his ways.

I'm frankly amazed that anyone would put a gun into their car or a bag and set off for another jurisdiction (and I am not inviting a political argument on N. Ireland) without thinking to make enquiries and get the paperwork in place.

I'm no longer amazed at anything I hear.

BornToKill

rrpc wrote: »

He had two choices: prosecute the guy for possession of an unlicensed firearm or give hime an authorisation to cover his mistake. That's completely within his powers and not at all inconsistent with anything.

No rrpc. Section 2 of the 1925 Act says:

2. —(1) Subject to the exceptions from this section hereinafter mentioned, it shall not be lawful for any person after the commencement of this Act to have in his possession, use, or carry any firearm or ammunition save in so far as such possession, use, or carriage is authorised by a firearm certificate granted under this Act and for the time being in force.

A Superintendent doesn't write the laws - that's the function of the Oireachtas. I do think there should be some flexibility in the system. Other people have been demanding that Superintendents must slavishly implement the law and were quite quick on occasion to go to court to make sure that they did.

In this case, the law is quite clear and the OP had broken it. It's quite a serious law too and he could have faced 1-7 years in jail. Now, I'm not claiming anything would have been served by prosecuting someone for this offence but either we want the law fully implemented (applications) or we want Superintendents to use discretion (prosecution).

One final point, the Superintendent has no power that I am aware of to issue an authorisation in this situation. Perhaps it was a non-residents FAC?

rrpc

BornToKill wrote: »

No rrpc. Section 2 of the 1925 Act says:

Section 2 of the act says a lot of things and quite a few more than just the penalty for possession of a firearm without a certificate. It goes on for over two pages and lists eighteen different exceptions to the requirement for a firearms certificate. The most important subsections of section 2 (which relate to this) are subsections (3) and (4) which outline the situation where it is not an offence to have a firearm without a certificate.

I'll point you to one of those subsections which I believe the Superintendent could have acted upon

Subsection 3(a): the possession or carriage of a firearm under and in accordance with a permit issued under this Act and for the time being in force

A Superintendent doesn't write the laws - that's the function of the Oireachtas. I do think there should be some flexibility in the system. Other people have been demanding that Superintendents must slavishly implement the law and were quite quick on occasion to go to court to make sure that they did.

You may have some axe to grind with people taking Supers to court, but that's not germane to this discussion.

In fact it seems that you are jumping on this case as a supposed example of double standards in that where it suits the shooter, it's OK for the law to be bent but where it doesn't it's not. Am I correct in my supposition?

In this case, the law is quite clear and the OP had broken it. It's quite a serious law too and he could have faced 1-7 years in jail. Now, I'm not claiming anything would have been served by prosecuting someone for this offence but either we want the law fully implemented (applications) or we want Superintendents to use discretion (prosecution).

You have only the OP's word on this forum that any law was broken. The Superintendent may not have had such evidence and if he wished to pursue it, he was free to do so. He obviously decided to follow a different but equally valid route and grant a permit to the OP.

One final point, the Superintendent has no power that I am aware of to issue an authorisation in this situation. Perhaps it was a non-residents FAC?

He could have also issued a 2(4)(d) authorisation, but a 3(a) permit is quite sufficient for his purpose.

By the very same reasoning that you are using here, thousands of people every year are guilty of possession of a firearm without a certificate (myself included). Every July, I get my renewals and travel to my local station to get the new licence. As it is a rural station it's not manned all the time, so I drop my renewal in the letter box with the cheque.

Invariably it's some time in August or even as late as September befiore I get my new licences. Even when I track a path daily to the station, the new licences are never there until at least the first or second week of August in which case I'm in considerably more trouble than the OP.

So by your reckoning we should really just walk into the Gardai and hand ourselves over to be arrested and prosecuted :rolleyes:

If we want to be consistent of course

Sparks

Hm. Can a 3(a) be given retrospectively?

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

Hm. Can a 3(a) be given retrospectively?

It doesn't matter. The minute he's handed it over, he can't really arrest him for having an unlicensed firearm 'yesterday' without evidence of same.

But yes, he can date the permit for a week ago if he wanted. A lot of them I've seen are dated July to July regardless of when they were issued.

I had one once that was for 'the twelve months to July 31st xxxx' I actually only needed it for two months because it was just to cover me until the new licences were issued.

Sparks

Sounds like all we need so is to find a friendly Super and we could finally run an ISSF international here (like the GB Jr International match) with "visitor's permits" via a 3(a) authorisation...

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

Sounds like all we need so is to find a friendly Super and we could finally run an ISSF international here (like the GB Jr International match) with "visitor's permits" via a 3(a) authorisation...

Well you could also use a 2(4)(d) or (e) authorisation as well for air rifle and just get the numbers of all the competitors air rifles.

The only issue to watch for is the one the MPAI fell foul of last year where the authorisation was for one district and the airport was in another. :eek:

However, to my mind the three year licence is the best of both worlds. It's not hellish expensive and it gives hassle free access to competitions in this country for three years.

Sparks

I can't agree with the idea that a visiting guest, who has already paid an entry fee and airline fees and is dumping money into our restaurants and hotels and so forth, shouldn't be able to get a free visitor's permit but should have to get a three-year licence, subject to all the fun of the fair that that entails. I mean, it'd be like asking all the Olympic shooters going to London in a few years to go through the process of getting an FAC, it'd be an embarressment.
If you're coming in for (on average) two to three days, and we know where you're going, why you're going there, what firearms you have with you and what match you're shooting in (and a contact in the organisers), then what possible extra benefit is there to demand a 3-year licence from someone, bar the base one of dumping an extra 80-odd euro into the kitty?

Seems a bit like an overlooked use case to me. Which is a shame after ten years of crud dealing with new legislation

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

I can't agree with the idea that a visiting guest, who has already paid an entry fee and airline fees and is dumping money into our restaurants and hotels and so forth, shouldn't be able to get a free visitor's permit but should have to get a three-year licence, subject to all the fun of the fair that that entails. I mean, it'd be like asking all the Olympic shooters going to London in a few years to go through the process of getting an FAC, it'd be an embarressment.
If you're coming in for (on average) two to three days, and we know where you're going, why you're going there, what firearms you have with you and what match you're shooting in (and a contact in the organisers), then what possible extra benefit is there to demand a 3-year licence from someone, bar the base one of dumping an extra 80-odd euro into the kitty?

Seems a bit like an overlooked use case to me. Which is a shame after ten years of crud dealing with new legislation

I'm not saying that the three year licence is the answer for everyone. I know it's a lot better for people in NI coming here for competitions and takes a lot of the headache out for a small enough outlay against the amount of uses it would get.

For the occasional visitor, I still think the EFP is the best bet, but obviously there's been problems with that in the past as well, so there needs to be some other control mechanism (even if only to protect our telecoms cables ).

Something combining a permit or a 2(4)(d) or (e) with the EFP perhaps.

Sparks

Sounds like sense to me.