Last Long Run Before Marathon

Ath36

Question - Due to personal circumstances, Wife away for week, Minding kids etc, I cannot run my last long run (20 mile) 3 weeks before the Longofrd Marathon.
My question - Would it be more beneficial to run this last long run 4 weeks out or 2 weeks out. Is 4 weeks too far out ?

TheRoadRunner

Ath36 wrote: »

Question - Due to personal circumstances, Wife away for week, Minding kids etc, I cannot run my last long run (20 mile) 3 weeks before the Longofrd Marathon.
My question - Would it be more beneficial to run this last long run 4 weeks out or 2 weeks out. Is 4 weeks too far out ?

IMO 4 weeks is much better than 2 weeks. 2 weeks is too close if it's one of your longer runs

TFBubendorfer

Ath36 wrote: »

Question - Due to personal circumstances, Wife away for week, Minding kids etc, I cannot run my last long run (20 mile) 3 weeks before the Longofrd Marathon.
My question - Would it be more beneficial to run this last long run 4 weeks out or 2 weeks out. Is 4 weeks too far out ?

You might ask 10 runners and get 10 different answers, but in this case I definitely agree with TheRoadRunner. 4 weeks out is better. In fact, 4 weeks might be better than 3 weeks anyway, depending on your recovery rate.

Lex Luther

Ath36 wrote: »

Question - Due to personal circumstances, Wife away for week, Minding kids etc, I cannot run my last long run (20 mile) 3 weeks before the Longofrd Marathon.
My question - Would it be more beneficial to run this last long run 4 weeks out or 2 weeks out. Is 4 weeks too far out ?

I agree with other poster , all advice is that 2 weeks is too short recovery for 20 mile run. Why not run last 20 miler 3 and a half weeks out as a compromise ? I've done this before and in the summer its not too bad if you can start early enough after work and finish by 10 it will still be bright. Its not ideal to run after a day on your feet but pyscologically I know 4 weeks seems a long way out from the marathon - 3 and a half doesnt seem as bad for some reason.
LL

boo-urns

I'm of the same opinion here - I tend to do my last long run 3 and a half weeks from the marathon. It does mean a long run on a wendesday evening but I always find it works really well.
I'd never leave it til two weeks beforehand.

Daithi BC

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

IMO 4 weeks is much better than 2 weeks. 2 weeks is too close if it's one of your longer runs

+1 to that. 2 weeks out is too close, and I would think that four weeks out is nearly as good as three weeks out.

Racing Flat

4.

But I'd check to see if there was any way I could do it closer to 3 weeks out by changing things around, maybe taking a day off work if possible type of thing.

Clum

I'll be running my last long run, 22 miles, 2 weeks before Longford.

eliwallach

Clum wrote: »

I'll be running my last long run, 22 miles, 2 weeks before Longford.

Still?
Even after what's been posted above?

Lex Luther

Clum wrote: »

I'll be running my last long run, 22 miles, 2 weeks before Longford.

Clum, each to their own, but even though I have seen some training plans that do allow for a last long run of 17 - 20 miles two weeks out I've never seen one that suggested that a 22 miler was a good idea.
Anyway good luck with it.
LL

Clum

Long tapers drive me nuts. I get stressed.

I'm trying a new approach this time round in my training. Lower overall weekly mileage with more than my usual number of long runs (5 20 milers and 3 22 milers rather than 3 of each).

I did high mileage and short taper last time and knocked 6 minutes of my previous pb but it was really tough going. This time I'm trying highish mileage and short taper. If it fails then fair enough, I've proved myself wrong. We'll know in 6 or so weeks.

tergat

Ath36 wrote: »

Question - Due to personal circumstances, Wife away for week, Minding kids etc, I cannot run my last long run (20 mile) 3 weeks before the Longofrd Marathon.
My question - Would it be more beneficial to run this last long run 4 weeks out or 2 weeks out. Is 4 weeks too far out ?

Ath36,

You have got good advice from everyone on here, without doubt do NOT do your last long run 2 weeks out.

Long runs are a critical element of marathon training, but it is important to back off the duration so that your legs won,t be too sore on race day. If you having been really pushing the mileage high and your long runs long, then start tapering the long runs about 4-5 weeks before race day. If you have been reasonable and not overextending yourself, your last long run can be 22 days before your race. I suggest cutting your long run by 20-25% on day 15 before your race and 30-35% on day 8 before your race. For example, if you have been running 20 milers regularly for a long run, then two weekends before your race run 15 miles only at an easy to moderate speed. Then, one weekend before your event run 13 miles at a Slow pace.

A post I made on tapering on here before below:

Here is something runners need to understand about tapering for a marathon race:

1) Tapering mileage is not a necessity of peaking. It is possible to run your normal mileage and still have a peak performance.

2) Tapering mileage is primarily needed to restore glycogen stores, not for "spring" in your legs.

3) Tapering is a personal thing. Most runners need a modest taper before a marathon. The most you should taper is about 50%, but that should be just for the week preceding a marathon race. Some runners should NOT taper below 70% of their normal volume or they will face a terrible last 10-15km of their marathon race.

Think of tapering as relative to the type and amount of training you have done. If you have pushed the limits of volume and duration of your runs, you will need a longer tapering phase. If you are putting in 80-100 mile training weeks, your legs might be thrashed after several weeks of it. Therefore, tapering for 3-5 weeks might be necessary for you to race a marathon well. On the other hand, if you choose to be more conservative and run 40-70 miles per week, your legs might be considerably more fresh. In such a case, a long taper will not be necessary at all.

Your muscle fiber types also determines how long you must taper. People who are naturally endurance oriented and not speedy will need short tapering phases. I have observed that slow twitch runners tend to lose aerobic endurance quickly upon cessation of mileage and suffer greatly in races when they taper too soon and too much. At the other end of the continuum, runners who are speedy tend to retain aerobic endurance more easily, so they can afford to taper longer. Most runners are somewhere in between these two extremes. However, no matter what you do, remember, if you are not tired, sore, and beat up, you don't need to taper much.

Failing to do well in a marathon typically has one of two reasons. The first is due to tapering too early and not having sufficient endurance to last the event duration. The second is due to sore legs. If you have sore legs in the first 10 miles or your legs are stiff and you are laboring, it probably due to excessive training: too much, too hard, too long, for too many weeks. If you do fail to perform well, ask yourself which one of the two is the cause, and learn from your mistakes so that next time you will conquer the beast!
I suggest that you pick one of three peaking plans: short, medium or long duration. Choose the one that fits your situation and needs. The short peak phase lasts 4-6 days only. The medium one lasts 8-12 days. The long one last 16-22 days. If in doubt, pick the middle one.

The length of taper generally depends upon two factors, I have found:

A) Your muscle fiber type. If you are mainly a slow twitcher - have slow speed over short distances but good endurance when trained properly - then you need very little taper. If you are slow twitcher but taper significantly, you'll do horribly in distance races. If you have a lot of fast twitch fibers, that is you have great natural speed over short distances, then you can taper longer and more before a big race.

If you are sore and depleted from overly ambitious training, you have to taper, at least some. Slow twitcher have to slow way down - slow their pace - but only taper about 20%. Any more and they will tend to perform very poorly. And, the taper should be no more than 10 days. Most slow twitchers can taper just 5 days and fast twitchers about 10 days before endurance starts to fade.

Re the race, run the first km 10-15 secs per km slower than your goal race pace, then ease, to your MP by the end of the second KM. Be controlled, that first km will save save precious glycogen which is burnt almost exclusively at the beginning of the race. If you run too fast, early-on, then you ruin the whole race!

Tergat

watergal

Ath36 wrote: »

Question - Due to personal circumstances, Wife away for week, Minding kids etc, I cannot run my last long run (20 mile) 3 weeks before the Longofrd Marathon.
My question - Would it be more beneficial to run this last long run 4 weeks out or 2 weeks out. Is 4 weeks too far out ?

I have done both - 22 miles at 4 weeks and 20 miles at 3 weeks.
I didn't notice any difference on the day of the marathon. I usually do a 20 mile 3 weeks before unless circumstances force me to change to a 4 week taper. I do the 3 week taper just for mental reasons really and also at my level I don't like to push over 20 miles in training ( my time is usually between 3.40 - 3.50).

I would definitely not do a 20 miler 2 weeks before the marathon unless you are totally confident that you will be fully recovered before the race. No point in ruining all that hard training.

good luck !

osnola ibax

Hi, don't mean to hijack the thread but just summit I've been thinking about lately. Thread is fairly old anyway.

Is there any benefit to running one long run, say 20 miles at pmp, before the real deal or is this just plain stupid.

Krusty_Clown

20 @PMP would be counter-productive, as the recovery and injury risk are too high. On its toughest program, P&D would have you doing an 18 mile run with 15 miles @marathon pace (18 week 70+ miles p.w.).

osnola ibax

Thanks krusty, I'm beginning to understand the various training mechanisms. By the way, what is p&d, for future reference.

Krusty_Clown

osnola ivax wrote: »

Thanks krusty, I'm beginning to understand the various training mechanisms. By the way, what is p&d, for future reference.

It's the bible, of my specific religion. Here.

Ath36

Thanks all for the answers. Much appreciated .
Slightly different question along the same lines.
I am following Hal Higdons Intermediate 2 Plan for the Longford Marathon.
This week I was due to run 12 miles as the long run but tonight went and ran 20miles (30 days before marathon). Dont ask !
I now intend running my last long run next Thursday (24 days out from marathon). Would doing a second 20 miles so soon be a bad thing or should I drop it to 15-17miles etc.
i am not comfortable in me head to start tapering 30 days out.

TFBubendorfer

Ath36 wrote: »

This week I was due to run 12 miles as the long run but tonight went and ran 20miles (30 days before marathon). Dont ask !
I now intend running my last long run next Thursday (24 days out from marathon). Would doing a second 20 miles so soon be a bad thing or should I drop it to 15-17miles etc.

Running 20 miles 30 days before the marathon is no big deal. You should easily be recovered from that come race day.

And that's what counts for a second 20-miler as well. As long as you are sure that you can recover fully from it before race day, then you can go ahead and do it. Nobody but yourself can answer that question.