Got ID taken off me- legal helpz please.

Federal

Didn't know where to post this so I thought here would be the best bet. Got my- well I shouldn't say my because it was my friend's passport, taken off me recently, I was using it to get into clubs as I'm still 17. He looks vaguely similar to me and it was working fine for a while in the dimly lit streets of the city centre(mostly we would be going in at peak hours where bouncers seemed to just glance at the birth date on IDs and let us in) but one night at a particularly well lit venue, the bouncer looked at me, looked at the passport and asked me what my middle name was to which I couldn't answer, the jig was up. I told the bouncer that it was my friend's ID that he had given to me to use(the truth) and he said he could come down whenever he wanted(my friend) to pick it up(he was a pretty nice guy), I said that my friend would probably be down in the next few days to pick it up, basically concreting the fact that we knew each other and were friends.

I called up my friend and told him what was up and he was cool with it and said he'd pick it up once he got back from his holidays abroad. What I'm worried now is when he goes to pick it up, he might get in trouble with the Gardaí as he let me use his passport to fraudulently impersonate himself or something along those lines. Basically, the last thing I want is to get my friend stung when it was my fault in the first place. The way the bouncer said it to me came across like there would be no problem in my friend getting it back but I am skeptical still. I know I'm probably being paranoid but either way I don't want to get my friend in trouble.

I was thinking my friend could claim that he didn't know me and I had stolen or found his ID somewhere and through a load of people he managed to find out that I had gotten it taken off me at said venue.

Has anyone been in a similar situation to this or possibly know the legality surrounding this situation?

Any help is appreciated.

ODD-JOB

The bouncer would find himself in a lot of trouble for taking possesion of somebody's passport. He had no right to take it , and would find himself in a lot more trouble than you would be in.

Did u ask for the return of it , and he refused on the night ???

donmeister

Im no legal eagle but your looking at 10-15 without parole!

hblock21

Federal wrote: »

friend's passport, taken off me recently

I called up my friend and told him what was up and he was cool with it and said he'd pick it up once he got back from his holidays abroad.

Hmmmm

magicianz

As far as i know, bouncers only have the power to enforce the clubs rules (age of entry, etc.) and have no right to take anyones property, especially such an important document. If anything does happen, be sure to say that it was illegally taken and if you could quote the act and section that deals with it. Best try and sort it out with the bouncer and club manager.

mickoneill30

ODD-JOB wrote: »

The bouncer would find himself in a lot of trouble for taking possesion of somebody's passport. He had no right to take it , and would find himself in a lot more trouble than you would be in.

Why? The OP was using somebody elses passport ilegally. They don't know if the OP knew the guy on the passport or if he nicked it.
I'm sure they'd be in trouble for confiscating the OPs own passport though.

~me~

how was your friend abroad without his passport?
hblock21 got there before me!

I'm refusing to help because you've spelt help with a z.

Shacklebolt

As far as I'm aware both of ye are breaking the law in this case.

Stev_o

Ill eat my hat if anything happens. Your not the only one to use fake/friends ID's and your not the only to have to confiscated. Stop worrying.

Time Magazine

Federal wrote: »

I was thinking my friend could claim that he didn't know me and I had stolen or found his ID somewhere and through a load of people he managed to find out that I had gotten it taken off me at said venue.

Your friend can get in trouble for providing you with an instrument. Do you want to add "being a lying prick" to the list of things the Gardaí can hit you with?

Has anyone been in a similar situation to this or possibly know the legality surrounding this situation?

You could go to prison.

ODD-JOB wrote: »

The bouncer would find himself in a lot of trouble for taking possesion of somebody's passport. He had no right to take it , and would find himself in a lot more trouble than you would be in.

Using a false passport carries a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison. I'm almost fairly certain that somebody who has reasonable grounds for thinking an object is stolen may hold onto it. The bouncer was not keeping the passport from its rightful owner so will not get in any trouble.

Stev_o

The Economist wrote: »

Your friend can get in trouble for providing you with an instrument. Do you want to add "being a lying prick" to the list of things the Gardaí can hit you with?

You could go to prison.


Using a false passport carries a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison. I'm almost fairly certain that somebody who has reasonable grounds for thinking an object is stolen may hold onto it. The bouncer was not keeping the passport from its rightful owner so will not get in any trouble.

Ah here, that's within context of being a illegal person in this country not trying to get into a fecking nightclub.

Time Magazine

Stev_o wrote: »

Ah here, that's within context of being a illegal person in this country not trying to get into a fecking nightclub.

Of course it is. But hopefully it will have scared the OP sufficiently to not think about trying to lie and saying he'd knicked the passport off his mate. Using a fake ID can get you a slap on the wrist, but stealing someone's passport is a very serious crime. Don't try and use it as a defence ffs.

OP, you broke the law. If I were you I'd wouldn't risk getting into more trouble, just be honest and take what comes your way.

Stev_o

The Economist wrote: »

Of course it is. But hopefully it will have scared the OP sufficiently to not think about trying to lie and saying he'd knicked the passport off his mate. Using a fake ID can get you a slap on the wrist, but stealing someone's passport is a very serious crime. Don't try and use it as a defence ffs.

OP, you broke the law. If I were you I'd wouldn't risk getting into more trouble, just be honest and take what comes your way.

He never said he stole it read his post again.

Im amazed your getting worked up about something so small OP.

Time Magazine

Stev_o wrote: »

He never said he stole it read his post again.

He says: "I was thinking my friend could claim that he didn't know me and I had stolen or found his ID somewhere."

I say: "...stealing someone's passport is a very serious crime. Don't try and use it as a defence ffs."

How about you read mine again?

Professey Chin

Stev_o wrote: »

He never said he stole it read his post again.

Im amazed your getting worked up about something so small OP.

Thats all them economics. Such serious stuff

Stev_o

The Economist wrote: »

He says: "I was thinking my friend could claim that he didn't know me and I had stolen or found his ID somewhere."

I say: "...stealing someone's passport is a very serious crime. Don't try and use it as a defence ffs."

How about you read mine again?

Feck that im too lazy to read the last line of a post

Dexterm99

ffs what's the world coming to when the youth today can't even use a photocopier and laminator.

Federal

ODD-JOB wrote: »

The bouncer would find himself in a lot of trouble for taking possesion of somebody's passport. He had no right to take it , and would find himself in a lot more trouble than you would be in.

Did u ask for the return of it , and he refused on the night ???

I never asked as he said straight out to me "this is someone else's passport, I can't give it back to you." He also said that I could notify a member of the Gardaí to pick up the passport and have my friend collect it from them. Needless to say I let him hang on to it.

hblock21 wrote: »

Hmmmm

It was an expired passport.

magicianz wrote: »

As far as i know, bouncers only have the power to enforce the clubs rules (age of entry, etc.) and have no right to take anyones property, especially such an important document. If anything does happen, be sure to say that it was illegally taken and if you could quote the act and section that deals with it. Best try and sort it out with the bouncer and club manager.

If it was my passport, I would have done this. Also if this was my passport I wouldn't be in this situation.

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

I'm refusing to help because you've spelt help with a z.

And my attempt of being "hip to the beat" goes out the window.

Shacklebolt wrote: »

As far as I'm aware both of ye are breaking the law in this case.

Exactly. Presently I think my best option would be to tell my friend not to go in and just leave the passport. As far as I know it means nothing to him really, it's an expired passport after all. There are a few American passport stamps in it, but nothing of apparent sentimental value.

The Economist wrote: »

Your friend can get in trouble for providing you with an instrument. Do you want to add "being a lying prick" to the list of things the Gardaí can hit you with?

You could go to prison.


Using a false passport carries a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison. I'm almost fairly certain that somebody who has reasonable grounds for thinking an object is stolen may hold onto it. The bouncer was not keeping the passport from its rightful owner so will not get in any trouble.

Bricks. They have been shat.

The Economist wrote: »

Of course it is. But hopefully it will have scared the OP sufficiently to not think about trying to lie and saying he'd knicked the passport off his mate. Using a fake ID can get you a slap on the wrist, but stealing someone's passport is a very serious crime. Don't try and use it as a defence ffs.

OP, you broke the law. If I were you I'd wouldn't risk getting into more trouble, just be honest and take what comes your way.

I think you may have misconstrued a fact in the OP, could you go through it again as I really value your opinion as it seems you have knowledge of the legislation surrounding situations like these.

I told the truth, that I was friends with the guy who gave me the passport and said that he would probably be down to pick it up in the following days. This is the conversation with the bouncer directly following having the ID taken off me and before I had called my friend and found out he was on holidays. At this point I had no thoughts of the legal aspects either one of us could be facing.

I was thinking if my friend wanted to get it back that he could claim that I had lied on the night in question and he could claim that he didn't know me and that I had found/ stolen his passport and he had tracked down the whereabouts of the passport through a load of other people. There is too much scope for things to go wrong here so I think I will leave it altogether.

Stev_o wrote: »

He never said he stole it read his post again.

Im amazed your getting worked up about something so small OP.

Yeah, I don't know though.

I'm thinking we should both just leave it. That way there is no recourse as far as I can see. I don't remember if there was any contact information on the passport(as far as I know there isn't on passports) but I'm sure if they tried hard enough they could trace contact details. I'm assuming they take both real and fake IDs off kids all the time(it's a popular place) so I'm sure they wouldn't bother.

Stev_o

Being total serious here for a second it is vital that you get the passport back, expired or not those things can easily fall into the wrong hands and be put to use for illegal use.

~me~

expired passports have the corners cut out so surely you'd have been caught before now?
and i doubt you'd get in too much trouble for being silly enough to use an expired passport tbh!

Federal

Stev_o wrote: »

Being total serious here for a second it is vital that you get the passport back, expired or not those things can easily fall into the wrong hands and be put to use for illegal use.

I don't understand. What can they do other than make another ID? Surely the club would have some moral standing as well?

~me~ wrote: »

expired passports have the corners cut out so surely you'd have been caught before now?
and i doubt you'd get in too much trouble for being silly enough to use an expired passport tbh!

How would using an expired passport not count as a valid form of ID? You're still the same person!

Jonathan

Federal wrote: »

How would using an expired passport not count as a valid form of ID? You're still the same person!

If you had a current form and an expired form of id, why would you purposely choose the expired form?

~me~

Federal wrote: »

I don't understand. What can they do other than make another ID? Surely the club would have some moral standing as well?



How would using an expired passport not count as a valid form of ID? You're still the same person!

for the exact reason why you're posting! people get a new one and then give the expired one to kids! thats why they've started cutting the corners off the old ones- to stop ID fraud. if its out of date its invalid.

poisonated

~me~ wrote: »

expired passports have the corners cut out so surely you'd have been caught before now?
QUOTE]

No some bouncers dont mind..they are the very leniant bouncers

Federal

Jonathan wrote: »

If you had a current form and an expired form of id, why would you purposely choose the expired form?

If I wasn't aware of the invalidity of the expired passport, that's the one I'd take, losing a passport is a pain at the best of times.

~me~ wrote: »

for the exact reason why you're posting! people get a new one and then give the expired one to kids! thats why they've started cutting the corners off the old ones- to stop ID fraud. if its out of date its invalid.

This one didn't have the corners cut off of it, unless you're referring to the curved edges on the laminated "plastic" part of the passport with the person's picture and details on it, but I thought every passport was like that? i can't place my hand on my own passport to check right now, ironically enough..

aine-maire

Afaik, since you're technically a minor, you can't actually be blamed. (Stupid, I know)
The penalty for giving an underager your id is a fine.

Shacklebolt

~me~ wrote: »

expired passports have the corners cut out so surely you'd have been caught before now?
and i doubt you'd get in too much trouble for being silly enough to use an expired passport tbh!

I used a friends brothers expired passport for 6 months, without a spot of bother. However had I been caught I have no doubt I would have been in ****.

Time Magazine

Federal wrote: »

I think you may have misconstrued a fact in the OP, could you go through it again as I really value your opinion as it seems you have knowledge of the legislation surrounding situations like these.

Stop taking legal advice from people on the internet. Boards will get in trouble if this thread is not shut down for the same reasons PI cannot give out medical advice. There's a very good reason for that, i.e. you're going to get crap advice.

If you're 17 it's likely your parents are cool with you drinking. If that's the case, then I suggest you tell them the passport was knicked. Turn up at the club with your parents (who pretend to be really mad) and have a "oh he's grounded until he's 18!" chat with the bouncer to make sure he hands back the passport and doesn't tell the gardaí. If he's the sort of prick who would bring this to the attention of the gardaí, then it's possible your parents will get a phone call. That won't be fun for you, or for your friend.

Just don't get your friend to go down and say "Oh some guy stole it." That reeks of BS and is just going to get you in trouble.

And don't be so stupid in future. When I was 17 I used to blag my way into places without producing any ID. The second you produce a fake ID you risk getting in trouble.

aine-maire wrote: »

Afaik, since you're technically a minor, you can't actually be blamed. (Stupid, I know)
The penalty for giving an underager your id is a fine.

Bullsh*t. We're not that stupid. A very quick google will show we put underagers in prison. Sure, a more lenient sentence, but the whole "you can't be blamed" thing is crap.

aine-maire

The Economist wrote: »

Bullsh*t. We're not that stupid. A very quick google will show we put underagers in prison. Sure, a more lenient sentence, but the whole "you can't be blamed" thing is crap.

The crime in that link was manslaughter.

Somebody died, that was obviously the minor's fault, hence prison.

This is completely different. The adult here should never have given the underaged their id.

Tasha90

not 100% sure but my uncle is a bouncer(or door personnel as he calls himself) and he said to me before he had no legal right to retain someones passport!

A minor can be put in prison (a youth prison). It's not going to happen in this case. Nothing will happen in this case, so don't worry (at most it'll be a visit from an official to see the person in question).

Legal advice is not allowed to be given on Boards, as The Economist said. I'm guessing the only reason this hasn't been locked is that the mods aren't online.

Time Magazine

aine-maire wrote: »

This is completely different. The adult here should never have given the underaged their id.

I know it's completely different. I'm not suggesting the OP should get eight years for a sneaky pint :rolleyes:

But your suggestion that because he's two/three months short of his 18th birthday that he "can't be blamed" is wrong. And the 17 year olds who read this forum should know that it's wrong and that yes, you can get in trouble for trying to use a fake ID.

(Personally I think it's insane. You should be allowed to drink at 16 tbh. But that doesn't change the reality that people can and do get in trouble for these things, especially if they try dig their way out of it with stupid lines like "Oh it was stolen but somehow I magically found out you guys were holding it for me.")

Federal

The Economist wrote: »

Stop taking legal advice from people on the internet. Boards will get in trouble if this thread is not shut down for the same reasons PI cannot give out medical advice. There's a very good reason for that, i.e. you're going to get crap advice.

If you're 17 it's likely your parents are cool with you drinking. If that's the case, then I suggest you tell them the passport was knicked. Turn up at the club with your parents (who pretend to be really mad) and have a "oh he's grounded until he's 18!" chat with the bouncer to make sure he hands back the passport and doesn't tell the gardaí. If he's the sort of prick who would bring this to the attention of the gardaí, then it's possible your parents will get a phone call. That won't be fun for you, or for your friend.

Just don't get your friend to go down and say "Oh some guy stole it." That reeks of BS and is just going to get you in trouble.

And don't be so stupid in future. When I was 17 I used to blag my way into places without producing any ID. The second you produce a fake ID you risk getting in trouble.

Bullsh*t. We're not that stupid. A very quick google will show we put underagers in prison. Sure, a more lenient sentence, but the whole "you can't be blamed" thing is crap.

If I turn up at the club with my parents, what onus is on the club to give me back a stranger's ID?

The passport was half the blag. I've never seen a fake ID that wasn't a driver's licence, a provisional license or some manner of Age card. I've never seen a fake or altered passport and I'm guessing that bouncers don't come across them very often at all.

Take a fookin' chiller lads, I'm not in a situation where I am requesting legal advice, I was simply acknowledging The Economist's experience and chose my words poorly as I did in the thread title. Maybe a moderator would like to change the thread title as opposed to locking the thread.

Edit: If I knew bouncers were unable to take passports off people I would have pushed harder and tried to blag it back off him! >.<

donmeister

I used by brother's passport before to get into a nightclub when I was 17 (we look alike and it was snipped at the corner's) got nabbed and got the passport the next week.

Dont worry you'll be grand!

KnifeWRENCH

Federal wrote:

Take a fookin' chiller lads, I'm not in a situation where I am requesting legal advice, I was simply acknowledging The Economist's experience and chose my words poorly as I did in the thread title. Maybe a moderator would like to change the thread title as opposed to locking the thread.

Would be more comfortable locking it tbh. Better safe than sorry.
Besides, you did get a decent number of replies. I'm not sure what else would be acheived by leaving it open.

The Economist wrote: »

Stop taking legal advice from people on the internet. Boards will get in trouble if this thread is not shut down .

Agreed.