A unified Irish title/promotion?

DeadlyByDesign

I have not been in the Irish MMA scene for long. I am very confused as to rankings and champions we have. Like is there a unified title amongst all the promotions out there? Do Chaos, EFR, Tribal Warfare, Ring of Truth, Ultimate conflict all have seperate title holders for each weight class?

If the answer is yes is this not all a bit counter productive as it gives no weight to any of said titles? Has there actually ever been talk about promotions coming together to have one unified title that is recognised as being the opitamy of skill in that class?

roo1981

From what I know, at the minute we have no real (or rather transparent) ranking system, and a few of the promotions dont even have recognised champions. I think the a site with fighter records etc is being worked on at the minute, (there was talk of setting it up here a while back)not sure where its at though. It might pave the way for a ranking system of some description though.

I'd agree, most of the said titles have no weight outside the promotions they belong to, but then its pretty much the same setup in England with Cage Rage\Cage Warriors etc. Id like to see Irish promoters be one step ahead of the Brits and be more proactive in setting up a regulating body (such as Wamma-or even if possible, a part of Wamma)...Again, I think there was talk of one a while back but it fell through... but a universal ranking\champion\rules set would definitely progress the sport no end over here.

DeadlyByDesign

Agreed. It would also be somehting for the fighters to aim for. At least there is a dedicated title there for them to aim for.

mark.leonard

Fight.ie are sorting out a fighter database and ranking system which will help a lot in letting everyone know where they stand.

On the Show Title point - don't forget that the most famous promotion of them all the UFC has show titles too, if their champs go out of contract they leave the title behind despite being unbeaten.

Fozzy

mark.leonard wrote: »

On the Show Title point - don't forget that the most famous promotion of them all the UFC has show titles too, if their champs go out of contract they leave the title behind despite being unbeaten.

A champion can't leave the UFC unless they retire altogether. They've got a "champion's clause" that requires a champion to defend the belt even if his regular contract is up

rovert

IAMMA

Raze_them_all

Fozzy wrote: »

A champion can't leave the UFC unless they retire altogether. They've got a "champion's clause" that requires a champion to defend the belt even if his regular contract is up

It's happened before thats why the champions clause is in it.

Martin Walker

DeadlyByDesign wrote: »

If the answer is yes is this not all a bit counter productive as it gives no weight to any of said titles?

They may not mean much to you but im pretty sure they mean alot to the peope who hold them.:rolleyes:

DeadlyByDesign wrote: »

Has there actually ever been talk about promotions coming together to have one unified title that is recognised as being the opitamy of skill in that class?

Not that i know of. A champion of champions tourney would be cool. But only Spartan Promotions, EFR and Tribal Warfare have champions. And only EFR have all weights covered. So in a way it cant happen. This is pretty much the same as the pound for pound thread a while back. It would be sweet if it came about but it wont.

Marty (jnr):cool:

roo1981

mark.leonard wrote: »

On the Show Title point - don't forget that the most famous promotion of them all the UFC has show titles too, if their champs go out of contract they leave the title behind despite being unbeaten.

That’s true, but at the end of the day the UFC is, as you said, the most famous show, and akin to WWE (sorry for the comparison, not trying to start an argument )-with their market position it would be foolish of them to recognise other titles.

On the flipside, the Wamma belts are recognised by quite a few promotions-Affliction and Strikeforce being the major two, along with M1, Adrenaline and some others. If orgs of their size can agree on a ruleset etc it shouldn’t be a problem for Irish orgs to do something similar.

Regarding the out of contract champs etc, at the minute, I don’t think it would be unrealistic to say that most Irish Fighters would consider the Irish promotions (as good as they are quality wise, don’t get me wrong) as a stepping stone for bigger things-most likely a UK show, possibly an American org if their good enough. If a fighter were to become Irish champ, and gets a chance to go fight on a higher tier foreign promotion, if they cant defend their title, then fair enough, the title should be vacated (and rightly so) and they should be aloud leave without any hassle. It benefits both parties really, the fighter could market himself as an all Ireland champion during contract talks with the new org, and the promoters can show fighters that by fighting on their shows they have a proven stepping stone to better orgs.

I mean no disrespect by the stepping stone remarks by the way, I just think realistically this mentality isn’t going to change until there’s a possibility of getting an Irish show on the box, and even with the sports growing popularity I think without a regulatory body (or a Saudi sugar daddy) we're some way off that yet. I think if it’s set up sharpish enough it can be setup so that MMA people are in charge of MMA regulation-instead of having, like other countries, mainly boxing guys making decisions.

One other thing...if there was to be a regulatory body setup with Government approval then wouldn’t the UFC have to abide by their standards when they come over ?

JohnMc1

roo1981 wrote: »

From what I know, at the minute we have no real (or rather transparent) ranking system, and a few of the promotions dont even have recognised champions. I think the a site with fighter records etc is being worked on at the minute, (there was talk of setting it up here a while back)not sure where its at though. It might pave the way for a ranking system of some description though.

I'd agree, most of the said titles have no weight outside the promotions they belong to, but then its pretty much the same setup in England with Cage Rage\Cage Warriors etc. Id like to see Irish promoters be one step ahead of the Brits and be more proactive in setting up a regulating body (such as Wamma-or even if possible, a part of Wamma)...Again, I think there was talk of one a while back but it fell through... but a universal ranking\champion\rules set would definitely progress the sport no end over here.

Considering how the rule structure mirrors [A-Clas....D-Class] Shooto. Joining the Shooto organization would be good.

IFS.NI

roo1981 wrote: »

On the flipside, the Wamma belts are recognised by quite a few promotions-Affliction and Strikeforce being the major two, along with M1, Adrenaline and some others. If orgs of their size can agree on a ruleset etc it shouldn’t be a problem for Irish orgs to do something similar.

quote]

Hi Roo,

The ISKA are the sanctioning body behind strikeforce, see below -



"ISKA World President Cory Schafer presents Babalu with STRIKEFORCE Championship belt
ISKA have been sanctioning MMA in America for some time, MMA now accounts for more than 60% of its activity. Strikeforce was the leading promotion for ISKA world championship kickboxing in the USA and the main provider of ISKA programming for ESPN TV network for 12 years. Moving with the times, Strikeforce promoter Scott Coker unveiled the Strikeforce Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) series with the Shamrock versus Gracie event on 10 March 2006, the first sanctioned mixed martial arts fight card in California. The Frank Shamrock versus Cesar Gracie match sold out the HP Pavilion in San Jose attracting a record audience of 18,265. Scott Coker recently signed a deal with Showtime TV for a series of live Strikeforce events.
The ISKA UK MMA division will provide a neutral arena where a fighter can develop his career without being allied to a branded event. A full sanctioning service will be available to promoters, including officials, insurance, matchmaking and marketing. British and Regional titles will be available in nine weight divisions Flyweight to Super-heavyweight for both Semi-Pro and Pro-MMA rules. Amateur MMA will be added to the National and bi-annual World and European Amateur Championship. ISKA Amateur MMA will make its debut at the European Championship in Rome, Italy, October 2009. "


We have secured the ISKA as the Irish sanctioning body for Clan Wars promotions which will see the first main event in feb/march 2010 which will invite fighters from all over Ireland to begin their challenge for the ISKA Irish title.

We are in talks already with the ISKA guys behind the English titles and talking about british and 4 nations titles once we have Irish champions for them to compete against the champions from england,scotland,wales.

Of course this is early days but alot of hard work has been put in to get the ISKA to govern and sanction the event.

There is a small ISKA sanctioned event in august also although it is an amateur event, the main series will start in feb and will see fighters from england flying over also.

This should open more doors to the UK circuit for Irish fighters. This is gyms like the wolfs lair,gladiator gym etc who have fighters representing the ISKA in world competitions.

I did e-mail as many Irish clubs as i could about the promotions starting in feb/march but if i missed anyone out feel free to drop me an e-mail to phpmcl@yahoo.com.

This is an invite to all clubs and fighters

thanks

Paul

cowzerp

DeadlyByDesign wrote: »

I have not been in the Irish MMA scene for long. I am very confused as to rankings and champions we have. Like is there a unified title amongst all the promotions out there? Do Chaos, EFR, Tribal Warfare, Ring of Truth, Ultimate conflict all have seperate title holders for each weight class?

The coaches and promoters all know who are the top fighters in ireland, the titles in general are all fought for by the top lads aswell in my opinion and are really only a promotion tool in reality,

There is a european ranking scheme so its obvious that if your the highest on that then your the top ranked irish fighter, Unifiying the titles can not happen and dont need to either.

John Ferguson

mark.leonard wrote: »

Fight.ie are sorting out a fighter database and ranking system which will help a lot in letting everyone know where they stand.

On the Show Title point - don't forget that the most famous promotion of them all the UFC has show titles too, if their champs go out of contract they leave the title behind despite being unbeaten.

Our inhouse software team should have a system ready for test by the end of july, we will then put it to all clubs and trainers for approval, feedback and tweaking

We also would need to know which clubs will or will not support the rankings, it will only work with full consent of the MMA community

John

DeadlyByDesign

cowzerp wrote: »

Unifiying the titles can not happen and dont need to either.

Is there a reason why not? Have people from the various promotions sat down and talked baout this before? From what the IFS NI is saying I see sanctioniing via the ISKA as only a good thing. In my view it is not good enough for the promoters to know who the top lads are...what about the fighters and public in general (if one was to reach that far into the main stream)

Raze_them_all

DeadlyByDesign wrote: »

Is there a reason why not? Have people from the various promotions sat down and talked baout this before? From what the IFS NI is saying I see sanctioniing via the ISKA as only a good thing. In my view it is not good enough for the promoters to know who the top lads are...what about the fighters and public in general (if one was to reach that far into the main stream)

There is usually 1-2 events a month sometimes more, having 1 set of titles means people will be defending them every second month, not everyone wishes to fight that often.

Also having your own titles puts people in seats, having a card is great having a title fight on it will be seen as better by the general public IMO

cowzerp

DeadlyByDesign wrote: »

Is there a reason why not? Have people from the various promotions sat down and talked baout this before? From what the IFS NI is saying I see sanctioniing via the ISKA as only a good thing. In my view it is not good enough for the promoters to know who the top lads are...what about the fighters and public in general (if one was to reach that far into the main stream)

So in that case they become the leading promotion in ireland over night because they are affiliated with the iska? i dont think so, EFR are the best promotion in my opinion and ran by pioneers of MMA in Ireland

newer promotions such as spartan etc are doing great things in there area and of course down south we have Tribal Warfare and Ring of truth will probably come out of hibernation in the future-there is more but im stating the bigger 1's

The only way 1 promotion is going to guarantee the best fighters and fights is by showing that they care for MMA, that they are professional and they will need to pay top dollar aswell, otherwise fighters will fight on the shows they know best and have been supported by in the past.

DeadlyByDesign

cowzerp wrote: »

So in that case they become the leading promotion in ireland over night because they are affiliated with the iska? i dont think so, EFR are the best promotion in my opinion and ran by pioneers of MMA in Ireland

newer promotions such as spartan etc are doing great things in there area and of course down south we have Tribal Warfare and Ring of truth will probably come out of hibernation in the future-there is more but im stating the bigger 1's

The only way 1 promotion is going to guarantee the best fighters and fights is by showing that they care for MMA, that they are professional and they will need to pay top dollar aswell, otherwise fighters will fight on the shows they know best and have been supported by in the past.

Hold your horses, I never said that they become the leading Irish promoter over night. I also have the utmost respect respect for Davys promotion. My point was and still is, that surely one sanctioning body is a good thing? We dont have one in ireland...at all.

cowzerp

DeadlyByDesign wrote: »

Hold your horses, I never said that they become the leading Irish promoter over night. I also have the utmost respect respect for Davys promotion. My point was and still is, that surely one sanctioning body is a good thing? We dont have one in ireland...at all.

Im telling you that they would if that was the case, not that you said they would-all these affiliations mean nothing and dont change anything than whats going on at present, unless all the promotions where linked to the affiliation and thats not going to happen either..

an agreed rule set can be agreed between promoters easily and i base my small promotion on EFR rules and feel thats the way to go..

IFS.NI

I would also like to say we are in full support of Spartan, EFR shows,Chaos etc, we are not here to try and compete with them,far from it. I know most of the guys involved with the shows and have the upmost respect for them, alot of them are helping out in the show in August.

All we are doing is running a show sanctioned by an recognised exsisting governing body for fighters and clubs who are interested in an ISKA title which may open more doors for them in the UK, Europe and even the USA through the ISKA's connections.

ISKA shows are also widely televised but obviously we are a bit away from that at the minute although a sports company who stream Muay Thai / MMA events on the web have been in contact, if this gets more lights on the Irish Fighters then happy days.

We already have guys from England looking to come and fight in Ireland from the English ISKA bodies - this can only be a good thing in my opinion to boast Irelands top fighters quicker?

The shows are not closed doors they are open for every fighter from Ireland, people do not have to compete in it if they dont want too and we are definately not taking away from the other events - we support them fully!

Raze_them_all

cowzerp wrote: »

Im telling you that they would if that was the case, not that you said they would-all these affiliations mean nothing and dont change anything than whats going on at present, unless all the promotions where linked to the affiliation and thats not going to happen either..

an agreed rule set can be agreed between promoters easily and i base my small promotion on EFR rules and feel thats the way to go..

Agreed, pretty sure tribal warfare's rules are pretty much the same eg A-class= Elbows on the ground