Rules of the Road question

coldpaw

I was coming into town today about 10.15. At a junction a car was stopped behind the lights taking up all of the cycle lane. I very helpfully pointed out to him that he was not allowed to be in the cycle lane. He got out and said that as it was a broken white line he was entilted to take over the cycle lane.

Was he right? And if so what is the poitn of the cycle lane then.

Cheers

Lumen

coldpaw wrote: »

Was he right?

Yes.

coldpaw wrote: »

And if so what is the point of the cycle lane then.

Box-ticking.

**Timbuk2**

As far as I know, all a broken white line means is that cars can go into the cycle lane if they are letting passengers out or in and a bus can go into it if they are loading passengers.

I think the car was in the wrong.

**Timbuk2**

From the rules of the road book:

A non-mandatory cycle track has a broken white line on the right-hand side. The cyclist may leave this type of cycle track if:

• they have already indicated they want to change direction
• a bus is letting passengers on or off at a bus stop located beside the track, or
• a vehicle is parked in the track while loading or unloading

kenmc

Lumen wrote: »

Yes.

Is it not for the sole purpose of loading or unloading, and even then limited to 30 mins?

ED E

Some evenings on my way home I feel so tempted to pick up a sharp stone as I cycle along and key every car parked in the cycle lane. Lucky I'm not that kinda person.

Chips Lovell

coldpaw wrote: »

Was he right? And if so what is the poitn of the cycle lane then.

As Lumen said, yes. What's the point? There isn't really, which is why the government has recently announced that it is scrapping mandatory use laws.

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

As far as I know, all a broken white line means is that cars can go into the cycle lane if they are letting passengers out or in and a bus can go into it if they are loading passengers.

No, these conditions only apply to a cyclist who wants to leave a broken white line cycle lane, i.e. you can leave if there's a bus stopping, if a vehicle is loading/unloading, or if you are changing direction. Cars can drive in them if they want.

**Timbuk2**

el tonto wrote: »

No, these conditions only apply to a cyclist who wants to leave a broken white line cycle lane, i.e. you can leave if there's a bus stopping, if a vehicle is loading/unloading, or if you are changing direction. Cars can drive in them if they want.

Oh I see. Thanks for clarifying that!

blorg

Cars can drive in them all they want. They can however only park in them for a maximum of 30 mins, while loading/unloading.

kenmc

It's extremely ambiguous.
"cycle track" means part of a road, including part of a footway or part of a roadway, which is reserved for the use of pedal cycles and from which all mechanically propelled vehicles, other than mechanically propelled wheelchairs, are prohibited from entering except for the purpose of access;
It mentions nothing about mandatory or non-mandatory ones. And yet somewhere else in the depths of the road traffic papers (what a mess of a website) I read that a non-mandatory one can be parked in for up to 30 mins for loading or unloading.

So from these 2 bits, it seems that a car can never drive in a cycle track, but can park in a non-mandatory one?!?!

Stupid bloody country we live in.

DirkVoodoo

Just use the bus lane.

I do take some amount of umbrage when people stop in the cycle "path/track" at traffic lights for no apparent reason. I know it's simply a matter of courtesy and not a requirement, but it really grinds my gears.

Chips Lovell

kenmc wrote: »

It's extremely ambiguous.
"cycle track" means part of a road, including part of a footway or part of a roadway, which is reserved for the use of pedal cycles and from which all mechanically propelled vehicles, other than mechanically propelled wheelchairs, are prohibited from entering except for the purpose of access;
It mentions nothing about mandatory or non-mandatory ones. And yet somewhere else in the depths of the road traffic papers (what a mess of a website) I read that a non-mandatory one can be parked in for up to 30 mins for loading or unloading.

So from these 2 bits, it seems that a car can never drive in a cycle track, but can park in a non-mandatory one?!?!

Stupid bloody country we live in.

Those regulations have been superseded by the 1998 ones, which state:

" 'cycle track' means part of a road, including part of a footway or part of a roadway, which is provided primarily for the use of pedal cycles ;",

petethedrummer

Lumen wrote: »

Box-ticking.

These broken line cycle lanes are part of the 200km of lovely cycle lanes in Dublin.

Anyone for a Dublin Cycle lane 200?

Nietzschean

from driving even the compulsory ones are rarely given enough space at lights, along the canal its especially laughable, a car can't fit in the lane beside the cycle track heading up to lights in a few places. I think its more of a safety risk having them there than not if you can't do them right...

kenmc

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

snip but it really grinds my gears.

You need some lube then. Apply liberally to the windscreen

buffalo

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Just use the bus lane.

I do take some amount of umbrage when people stop in the cycle "path/track" at traffic lights for no apparent reason. I know it's simply a matter of courtesy and not a requirement, but it really grinds my gears.

My thoughts exactly. A bit of consideration goes a long way in my book.

vektarman

On a similar topic I saw a van and a car clamped for parking in the mandatory cycle lane on Botanic avenue in Dublin this morning, not something I've seen too often.

Nietzschean

haha @ clamped, its kinda laughable that mandatory cycle lane doesn't imply clearway during hours of operation...but it doesn't...

blorg

petethedrummer wrote: »

These broken line cycle lanes are part of the 200km of lovely cycle lanes in Dublin.

Anyone for a Dublin Cycle lane 200?

Jesus Christ no. I had shivers even thinking about it. How could you do 200km on a full suspension mountain bike!

blorg

Nietzschean wrote: »

haha @ clamped, its kinda laughable that mandatory cycle lane doesn't imply clearway during hours of operation...but it doesn't...

It is however illegal to park in them.

BeerNut

petethedrummer wrote: »

Anyone for a Dublin Cycle lane 200?

But what about all the bits between where the lanes randomly stop and start? My bike only operates in non-hover mode.

Jawgap

BeerNut wrote: »

But what about all the bits between where the lanes randomly stop and start? My bike only operates in non-hover mode.

And the lanes that lead into dead ends!!

....or the lanes that start and stop within metres - I wonder where the shortest stretch of cycle track is in Dublin - we could have a TT there!

monument

petethedrummer wrote: »

These broken line cycle lanes are part of the 200km of lovely cycle lanes in Dublin.

Anyone for a Dublin Cycle lane 200?

Only if it's been done on mountain bikes!

EDIT: Feck, missed blorg's post.

petethedrummer

BeerNut wrote: »

But what about all the bits between where the lanes randomly stop and start? My bike only operates in non-hover mode.

Those are rest interludes, you turn of your cycle computer at that point. Only cycle track counts.

petethedrummer

Jawgap wrote: »

I wonder where the shortest stretch of cycle track is in Dublin

I actually think I've found it, 1.5m max. on the North Strand Road. I'll dig up the photo out later. We can't have 2 TTs so close together, so I suggest a bunch sprint.

Wez

We should organise a whole range of events: Sprints as suggested, urban MTBing(N11 Northbound), handling in slippery conditions (during autumn, along Fairview park).. Plenty more to choose from!

BeerNut

Wez wrote: »

urban MTBing(N11 Northbound)

Through Churchtown as well. And down the Clanbrassil Street track we could play How Glass-Proof Are My Tyres?

ROK ON

Wez wrote: »

We should organise a whole range of events: Sprints as suggested, urban MTBing(N11 Northbound), handling in slippery conditions (during autumn, along Fairview park).. Plenty more to choose from!

Slalom course in the Phoenix Pk, where joggers on the bike path are the slaloms to be cycled around.

cyclopath2001

coldpaw wrote: »

what is the point of the cycle lane then.

To facilitate the free movement of motor traffic.

Blowfish

petethedrummer wrote: »

I actually think I've found it, 1.5m max. on the North Strand Road. I'll dig up the photo out later. We can't have 2 TTs so close together, so I suggest a bunch sprint.

The bit here could probably compete with it - or at the very least qualify for most useless piece of cycle track. As if the original wasn't bad enough, they've now dug up a strip of about 50m of the cycle track/path starting a few metres back from where the photo was taken. Of course when relaying it, they forgot to actually put the cycle track back in, meaning it now consists of a few metres of red strip, a sign saying End and a pole. Mindboggling.

Wez

BeerNut wrote: »

We could play How Glass-Proof Are My Tyres?

Haha..

ROK ON wrote:

Slalom course in the Phoenix Pk, where joggers on the bike path are the slaloms to be cycled around.

Yeh, was thinkin that too!

I think we might have just created Alleycat v2.0.. How can those yankee Hipsters compete with our fierce (love that word) crowd!?

Blowfish

ROK ON wrote: »

Slalom course in the Phoenix Pk, where joggers on the bike path are the slaloms to be cycled around.

Actually as an alternative to the Phoenix park, we could always head down to this lovely cycle track in Portlaoise:

-Chris-

Based on this:

el tonto wrote: »

" 'cycle track' means part of a road, including part of a footway or part of a roadway, which is provided primarily for the use of pedal cycles ;",

And this:
http://penaltypoints.ie/the_full_list_of_offences.php (halfway down, 3 points in court for "Driving on a cycle track")

says to me that the driver was in the wrong.


I was taught by my driving instructor that a broken white line meant a division between carriageways that you could only cross for the purposes of changing lanes, turning or overtaking.

He shouldn't be drivng in it, IMHO.

Blowfish

Blowfish wrote: »

Actually as an alternative to the Phoenix park, we could always head down to this lovely cycle track in Portlaoise:

They've ice-cream? I'm there.

connie_c

the two way cycle lain on inchicore road by kilmainham jail is pretty laughable and just ends with cyclists having to exit into traffic at a one way junction.

Ive twice witnessed the same gut kick over every wheelie bin on the street that was left in this cycle lane.

Ironically he covered the cycle lain in all sorts of **** the second time.

blorg

@Chris- that is penalty points for driving in a mandatory cycle track, (solid white line) which is not allowed ever (unless you are entering or exiting across the track.)

There are dashed line cycle tracks where the rest of the lane is basically the same size as the cycle track, where it would be impossible for a car or bus to drive in the lane (and in some cases, on the road at all) without driving in the cycle track. Examples would be down by IMMA in Kilmainham, coming up to the junction with the M4 (cycle track shared with lane) and Willbrook Road in Rathfarnham (rest of road too narrow for a bus not to drive in cycle lane.)

Of course this makes the cycle track utterly pointless but there you go.

petethedrummer

Blowfish wrote: »

Actually as an alternative to the Phoenix park, we could always head down to this lovely cycle track in Portlaoise:

Is it still like that? Where in portlaoise is it and can you locate it on Google maps for me?

-Chris-

blorg wrote: »

@Chris- that is penalty points for driving in a mandatory cycle track, (solid white line) which is not allowed ever (unless you are entering or exiting across the track.)

There are dashed line cycle tracks where the rest of the lane is basically the same size as the cycle track, where it would be impossible for a car or bus to drive in the lane (and in some cases, on the road at all) without driving in the cycle track. Examples would be down by IMMA in Kilmainham, coming up to the junction with the M4 (cycle track shared with lane) and Willbrook Road in Rathfarnham (rest of road too narrow for a bus not to drive in cycle lane.)

Of course this makes the cycle track utterly pointless but there you go.

So much of the cycle track network is utterly pointless (or downright dangerous), I don't know if that should figure into the conversation!
If el tonto's definition is correct, cars shouldn't be in the cycle track.

Beyond that, we have to blame our inept (and obviously non-cyclist) town planners for the way in which they implement these things. It's a shambles at best!

cyclopath2001

-Chris- wrote: »

http://penaltypoints.ie/the_full_list_of_offences.php (halfway down, 3 points in court for "Driving on a cycle track")....says to me that the driver was in the wrong.

That would only apply where the cycle track is delineated by a a continuous white line (RRM022):

(5) (a) A mechanically propelled vehicle, other than a mechanically propelled wheelchair, shall not be driven along or across a cycle track on the right hand edge of which traffic sign number RRM 022 has been provided, save for the purpose of access to or egress from a place adjacent to the cycle track or from a roadway to such a place.

In 1997, there was a general prohibition on driving in cycle tracks, but in 1998, when the car-loving PDs got into power, they changed the regulation to the one above. This effectively wiped out all the benefits of the 1997 project and transformed cycle tracks from a benefit to cyclists to being a restriction.

Common practice now is to remove or change to 'RRM023' any cycle track that poses an inconvenience to motor traffic.

kenmc

Blowfish wrote: »

I think this one is quite good. At least you won't get cars parked on it, that's a nice novelty.

blorg

-Chris- wrote: »

If el tonto's definition is correct, cars shouldn't be in the cycle track.

Tonto pointed out that cars can drive in non-mandatory cycle tracks

What cyclopath says is right, you may not like it but that is the law.

Blowfish

petethedrummer wrote: »

Is it still like that? Where in portlaoise is it and can you locate it on Google maps for me?

Borrowed from another forum, so I unfortunately don't know the exact road.