Lisbon treaty will not lead to abortion in Ireland

bibbly

Some facts I came accross after reading Richard Greene's abortion rant in the Irish Times.

• Since 1991 we have had a protocol in EU Treaty law clarifying our position on abortion. That’s eighteen years now. And still no piece of EU legislation that has questioned or affected this Protocol. In fact, since 1973 there has not been a piece of EU law that has sought to change our position on abortion.
• The Catholic Church has confirmed that our position on abortion is not affected by the Lisbon Treaty. During the first Lisbon Referendum, Diarmuid Martin, Archbishop of Dublin said that ‘Catholics could vote for the Treaty in good conscience’.
• We are not alone. There are in fact five countries that have clear restrictive measures on abortion – Malta, Spain, Poland, Portugal and us. In fact, Malta has even stricter rules than we have.
• Just to make sure, we got an extra guarantee a couple of weeks ago from our European partners reassuring us that reasserts that our original 1991 protocol cannot be touched.

Only the Irish People will decide on abortion in this country, not Europe.

RandomName2

bibbly wrote: »

Only the Irish People will decide on abortion in this country, not Europe.

Not according to a particular swedish political party mentioned in last week's Sunday Times who (apparently) want to legislate for european-wide abortion after Lisbon via the Citizens Initative (although the practicality of this sound a bit unlikely).

But why the big deal about abortion anyway? It has always been the tacit understanding that abortion, although not legal in Ireland, is sought by Irish women in the uk. Although it is right to question the legislative independence of the Irish state I think that abortion, with the emotional baggage it carries, is perhaps not the best area to make an issue of (although this applies mostly to the 'no' side against Lisbon).

View

RandomName2 wrote: »

Not according to a particular swedish political party mentioned in last week's Sunday Times who (apparently) want to legislate for european-wide abortion after Lisbon via the Citizens Initative (although the practicality of this sound a bit unlikely).

It is just a PR stunt by the Swedish politicians involved. Even if they cross the million plus mark with their initiative, the Commission's response is just going to be "Sorry, it is outside our area of (legislative) competence to draft legislation in this area". All, in all, a pointless exercise.

Daftendirekt

bibbly wrote: »

• The Catholic Church has confirmed that our position on abortion is not affected by the Lisbon Treaty. During the first Lisbon Referendum, Diarmuid Martin, Archbishop of Dublin said that ‘Catholics could vote for the Treaty in good conscience’.

Was this their stance the last time round? I vaguely remember them playing up the anti-abortion hysteria, although I could be wrong. Or maybe it was just the Catholic magazine Alive?

Scofflaw

Daftendirekt wrote: »

Was this their stance the last time round? I vaguely remember them playing up the anti-abortion hysteria, although I could be wrong. Or maybe it was just the Catholic magazine Alive?

It was Alive! rather than the church - in fact, I seem to recall a certain condemnation of Alive!'s stance from the pulpit.

cordially,
Scofflaw

nesf

Daftendirekt wrote: »

Was this their stance the last time round? I vaguely remember them playing up the anti-abortion hysteria, although I could be wrong. Or maybe it was just the Catholic magazine Alive?

If I remember correctly, the Catholic Church didn't come out and endorse the treaty but they reassure voters that it didn't affect Ireland's stance on abortion mainly due to the hysteria being whipped up by Cóir/Youth Defense et al.

WeeBushy

Interesting letters in the Irish Times yesterday disagreeing with the 1991 protocol being set in stone. I dont know much about EU law but he does seem to bring up a good point:

Any protocol on abortion is legally binding but may be challenged successfully in the future in the EU courts using the Charter of Rights attached to the Lisbon Treaty."

And with the EU pushing to make abortion a universal human right it would seem that our abortion laws are under threat.

Link to letter: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2009/0718/1224250904809.html

brianthebard

Who's this Richard Greene fellow-do you have a link to the article op?

PopeBuckfastXVI

brianthebard wrote: »

Who's this Richard Greene fellow-do you have a link to the article op?

He's the spokesman for Coir, the article is linked in this thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055620550

brianthebard

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

He's the spokesman for Coir, the article is linked in this thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055620550

Disturbing stuff.

WeeBushy

So basically its a load of poppy cock and our abortion legislation is safeguarded?

nesf

WeeBushy wrote: »

So basically its a load of poppy cock and our abortion legislation is safeguarded?

Yes, and this was the case in Lisbon I too, it's just that Cóir and Libertas spread misinformation on the issue.