Cap1 Disaster - Advice

shewasoctober

Hi everyone, well, I really made a disaster of things.

I'm currently working for a Big 4.
I have managed to fail all 5 of the Cap1 exams, though I was really only expecting to fail 2.

I want to continue with accountancy, but I'm unsure of how my firm will responsd. I don't enjoy auditing, though I enjoy other aspects of accounting. However, I'm in an audit prosition in financial services and will be for another 2.5 years if I continue with this firm and the ICAI.

That aside, I like the security of the job. I need the training regardless in order to complete any qualification. The other trainees are great.

I'm also not fond of the ICAI and how they work. I don't feel they offer much support or even really listen to what the students say. I find the lectures awful and inflexible. The entire training process is very inflexible and seems to be all about money.

I've been trying to decide whether or not to resit all 5 CAP1 exams. If I do, that means 2 weeks of unpaid leave and fees for revision and exams. If I fail any of them, I'll be let go. So, I've been considering not resitting them and switching to the ACCA and attending a full time structured course where I can focus and not worry about overtime. Also, the ACCA flexibility is quite appealing. I know the exams are just as difficult, if not more demanding, but I like the full time focus.

Anyone have any thoughts? Has anyone ever passed all 5 on a resit? Any advice is welcomed.

Thanks in advance.

schumacher

Maybe accoutning isnt for you. CAP 2 are meant to be really hard and judging by the threads on this I say so. If you failed 5 the first time then the likelihood that you pass them on the repeats is slim. No offence meant. Im actually surprised they didnt sack you? I though they were firing people over failing exams.

shewasoctober

Thanks for the reply, but I don'tthink failing these exams means accountancy isn't for me. I do think that maybe the structure isn't for me. I just think I come from a very different background and it took a little too long to adjust. Then, by the time I did, I ended up with an injury that took away several weeks of study over study leave.

As for sacking, I know many people who have failed exams are being allowed to resit. If they fire everyone who failed even just one exam, half of those who sat all the Cap1 exams, or Management Accounting would be gone. Also, I haven't even heard a peep from my Director or Partner. This has been the case most of the time. Very poor communication. I don't mention a manager because there isn't one in my group.

Anyway, taking all 5 while working full time may have been a little much at the time. Now that I'm settled in and have adjusted and am healthy, I know switching to the ACCA wouldn't be an issue and that I'd pass the exams no problem as I would be able to focus more while studying full time.

Anyone been through this before?

schumacher

Well now that you settled in maybe you should give them another try since it took you along time to adjust. Now that you are over this you might pass. As for the ACCA there are meant to be alot harder than the old ACA syllabus. I dont know what the new one is like other than what Ive heard on boards. Maybe somebody more experienced will be able to give you more advice.

shewasoctober

It's not the toughness of the exams I'm worried about, it's the structure. With all the overtime, little support and awful irregular lectures, I found it hard to find the time to get a proper steady study routine in. I'm also someone who's never had to study to excel, so it's definitely new for me. I believe a full time course would be helpful and keeps the regular and more frequent. Even working and studying part-time, I'd prefer the evening lectures every week to 2 weekends a month. Frak, if I can do physics, I should be able to do accountancy.

Firstly, it would help to be able to speak with my Director or Partner and know what options I have. Not even sure I'll be allowed to resit, so this could all be an unnecessary struggle.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Relevant

shewasoctober wrote: »

I feel as though I've received no support in trying to pass my exams and advance my skills. In fact, I still haven't been contacted by my Director or Partner in regards to this, when everyone else has. I also am not fond of financial services, as I would prefer to work in industry.

If you are of the opinion that you receive little support in passing your exams in the Big 4 i would suggest that a job in industry is not for you.

I have just finished Cap 1 through a non accountancy channel. If you leave the big 4 in favour of industry you can forget the study leave you receive. Many people received 5/6 weeks in the Big 4 whereas i received 3(including exam days) In order to attend the Block classes i had to taKe annual leave. This year was ok but I have no idea how i'll find time during my finals when Big 4 employees are on 10/12 weeks leave compared to my 3 weeks.

I would suggest you really have a think as to whether accountancy is for you

shewasoctober

Thanks. I know the difference in study leave in industry. It's not the study leave that I'm worried about. It's the structure. I would prefer to attend lectures in the evening during the week, every week instead of the 2 weekends a month all day fiasco. Many of the colleges that offer the ACCA course offer a lot of additional support. The ICAI structure doesn't work for me. I find the lectures awful as well, and the pass rate for Management Accounting reflects this. Also, you're required to sit 5 exams in one go. I'd rather have the flexibility to split the exams (Dec/June) and focus on half in a shorter period.

I'm not sure if people are understanding me. Anyhow, if it deals with the way I learn and the need for more structure and regularity in lectures, maybe switching is best. It'll provide more focus. I can do the full time study and get the first 5-6 exams out of the way and get a feel for the material. Afterwards, I can worry about work and study together.

Could you tell more about your industry job if you don't mind? I want to continue, but I really don't want to do auditing.

Thanks.

hockeygirl

I failed 4 out of 5.
But I knew I would be repeating 3 - the fourth ...failing tax was a shock. I was out by 4marks. :mad:

I only managed to answer 3 out of 5 questions in each of those exams. and I came out with 30% in each of those. So I figure if I study like a mo-fo between now and then I should pass. Dont forget youve already studied all the subject so your just revising and adding on. The study youve already done should stand to you.

I thnk you should repeat the exams. I wont be getting any extra study time other than out of my own holiday leave and my boss is going to give me grinds which is sound I have to say.

Im going to do the revision course for financial acc and mgmt. the dublin mgmt lecturer is Brian Vallely.... he teaches the acca and cpa course in griffith... is he any good?

Not paying for finance, i think cap1 lecturer wasnt good and he never gave any additional examples that werent in the book so Im not forking out €100 to listen to him crap on with rubbish examples.

Seriously you wont be the only one repeating 4 or all 5 subjects. stick at it and see how you do. If u pass them u can still go into industry but ur cv will look better with Cap1 completed.

Good luck and see you in sept!

shewasoctober

Thanks hockeygirl. Depending on how my meeting with my Partner goes tomorrow, I'll decide whether to resit them or not. I finally got my breakdown and my worse was finance and my best was mgt acc as I missed passing it by 5 marks. The other exams I missed passing by 8-12 marks.

A friend from work has offered to help me out and others are supplying detailed notes. It really comes down to my Partner. If I'm given the option to resit, I will. If I pass all. . . GREAT! If not, I can carry what a I pass over to the ACCA and switch in January. If I'm let go, then I switch to the ACCA asap.

Thanks again.

ruejussieu

5 out of 5 is gutting but I'd echo the above and give them obe more try in the resits. If you fail them then you can consider alternatives (indeed you may be forced to) but ACCA isn't to be rushed into lightly. I honestly think qualification may be easier under ICAI compared to ACCA (if accoutancy is the right career for you) - I've used several ACCA textbooks right up to FAE and they go far beyond the ICAI syllabus.

Good luck for you chat with your partner/director, hopefully the clear difficulty of the new CAP exams will make them take a little more interest in how their trainees are progressing. Make it clear you need more support but try not to indicate that you're ready to throw it all aside.

tipptop2008

Think you'll be entitled to sit you're exams again - you in my my big four company anyways - should check your contract about this - think if you are you'd be better off giving them a go anyways - CAP 1s are probably the worst from the perspective of getting used to the accountancy type exams and that the study leave is a good bit less than CAP 2s and FAEs.

If I were you I'd check you're contract and see what the story is. Go into you'r meeting tomorrow with an open mind but don't let you're director bully you into doing something that you're not comfortable with - they might want to try and get you to leave to cut numbers and try and say ACA isn't for you but make up you're own mind

ma.long25

shewasoctober wrote: »

Thanks hockeygirl. Depending on how my meeting with my Partner goes tomorrow, I'll decide whether to resit them or not. I finally got my breakdown and my worse was finance and my best was mgt acc as I missed passing it by 5 marks. The other exams I missed passing by 8-12 marks.

A friend from work has offered to help me out and others are supplying detailed notes. It really comes down to my Partner. If I'm given the option to resit, I will. If I pass all. . . GREAT! If not, I can carry what a I pass over to the ACCA and switch in January. If I'm let go, then I switch to the ACCA asap.

Thanks again.

I hope things go well for you!!

just have a couple fo questions for you, did you do accountancy for the leaving certificate, how many points did you get in your leaving cert and where did you do physics and what degree classification did you get.

Let me guess, 400+ points, 2.1 classifcation, TCD or UCD Physics

I feel accountancy is so strange, it doesnt really test your intelligence at all, you ahve all these guys getting very high leaving cert points and good degree classification failing these exams, while guys who have done undergrads in accountancy , with low leaving cert points are passing, it makes me really wonder , do you have to be smart to pass those cap 1 and cap2 exams !!!

Your obviously very intellginet , u got into big four and still failed thsoe exams!! stange!!!

LightningBolt

Last post...

Accountancy to me seems being able to understand the concept of what you're doing and why you're doing it. Auditing itself seems to be illogical at times but you need to get your head around covering your ass.

To the op,

Do the repeats. If you pass, great, cap 2 will come a bit easier to you I imagine. If you don't pass them all and you find yourself in the position of having to leave your firm, go for the acca. It'll probably suit you better by the sounds of things. Best of luck.

ma.long25

LightningBolt wrote: »

Last post...

Accountancy to me seems being able to understand the concept of what you're doing and why you're doing it. Auditing itself seems to be illogical at times but you need to get your head around covering your ass.

To the op,

Do the repeats. If you pass, great, cap 2 will come a bit easier to you I imagine. If you don't pass them all and you find yourself in the position of having to leave your firm, go for the acca. It'll probably suit you better by the sounds of things. Best of luck.

No offence but i heard cap 2 was an ansolute nightmare, fincial reporting and MABF was really hard!!!

But try those exams and see how u get on!!!

shewasoctober

Thanks everyone. Waiting on my partner to ring. I'll definitely update after the meeting.

However, at this firm, if CAP1s are failed, the firm has the right to terminate my contract as it states I should pass all exams on the 1st sitting. Most people are allowed to resit, but most have only failed 1-2 exams.

If they decide to terminate my contract, I will request for sign-off of my work to date to carry the 1 year of experience over to the ACCA.

HeinekenTicket

My view is that I don't think accountancy is for you. If CAP1 is causing you problems, CAP2 will be very difficult to pass. ACCA is no walk in the park either.

You might consider IATI as an interim qualification along the way, so that, if you ultimately conclude that accountacy isn't for you, you'll still have something to show for the time and effort. IATI is a very achievable qualification - roughly the same standard at CAP1.

shewasoctober

Does no one here think determination can make a difference and that people should always just through in the towel after running into one obstacle?

I find this crazy and absurd. I've been on boards for over a year now and have seen people telling others to give up after running into exam issues, as if there is no way to overcome it. What's really crazy about it is the fact that many universities here don't even count the marks from your first to years of college in your overall mark. So people can frak off their 1st year or so and yet come out with a 2.1 or 1st. I know people who have done this. I thinks it's crazy. I had to work for 4 years to get my 2.1 equivalent.

I guess I came on here looking for advice in regards to passing these exams and maybe gain some study tips as I never really had to study to do well, but I had regular classes, so I there might be a better technique out there.

For other who have failed 3-5 exams, I think it's worth resitting or moving on to another qualification that might offer better support and better class options. While the ICAI has changed the Mgt Accounting lecturer, they haven't changed the Finance one and that exams has always seen a lower percentage of pass rate.

For me, if my firm allows me to resit, I'll put in 2-3 times the amount of study, if that's possible, and for a study group with others to pass. I don't give up easy, and I don't believe anyone should, not if it's something you really want to do.

prinz

shewasoctober wrote: »

Does no one here think determination can make a difference and that people should always just through in the towel after running into one obstacle?

In fairness it's a bit more than that. You don't like your job, you don't like the Institute, you don't like the lecturers, you don't like the lectures..... yadda yadda. The common denominator is you. I don't think anyone is suggesting your not intelligent enough or determined enough, but put it all together into a big picture and you see where people are coming from. Like others have said if CAP1 is proving difficult CAP2 is a huge jump up, take my word for it, I just did CAP2. Plus a lot of the people in my firm are going the ACCA route and there's not a huge amount of difference tbh.

shewasoctober

Hi Prinze, it's not the job I hate, it's the place I'm working. I spent time working in a bank as a financial analyst trainee before this and loved it. Unfortunatley, cutbacks were being made and they let all first years go.

I understand what you're saying, but I guess to me it's been a huge adjustment. I like the subject and do reading on my own all the time. I know there isn't much of a difference in the exams, but there is a difference in the flexibility and the fact that I can study for the ACCA exams full time and complete the rest of my practical experience afterwards.

Bottom line, I'm committed to getting a professional accountancy qualification one way or another. So, if anyone has any suggestions on for study methods, please share.

prinz

shewasoctober wrote: »

Bottom line, I'm committed to getting a professional accountancy qualification one way or another. So, if anyone has any suggestions on for study methods, please share.

A lot of hard work. If you want to talk about a huge adjustment, I started work for a small practice and did CAP1 last year. The nearest I had come to accountancy or anything related to it was one year of Business Studies in secondary school. I remember getting talking to a couple of people in my first lecture and they were all BComm, or Finance or Accountancy grads. So I knew from the get go I was at a major disadvantage so I worked my ass off. I also know from friends in Big4 that they got full days going through the Case Studies with a partner at work, which anyone in Industry, or small practice is not going to get. The grass isn't always greener with someone/somewhere else. There's no easy study method to guarantee success, I wish there was.

shewasoctober

Thanks prinze. My biggest adjustment came with the move from the US to here. There are many cultural differences and they have reared their heads during this job. I'm extremely upfront and blunt and has led to misunderstandings. I find some people are very threatened or irritated by it. Also, the weather makes a big difference. I never realised how much, but it was very hard to get motivated when I first moved over as I was living in the south and had lots of sun.
Also, while I took a job with some training, I have no business studies and that training was very different. My background is more artsy with some science thrown in.

Glad you hear you made the adjustment and are getting on well. Hope I can manage to pull everything together. My year end review was quite good, so that might help in the argument to resit.

Cheers.

prinz

shewasoctober wrote: »

Glad you hear you made the adjustment and are getting on well. Hope I can manage to pull everything together. My year end review was quite good, so that might help in the argument to resit.

Cheers.

Best of luck. A friend of mine failed all her Prof 2's when she sat them first. She passed all on the resit so it can be done.Now she's on her FAE's. I don't think anybody is motivated to get out of bed on a wet and dark Saturday and Sunday but it has to be done if you want to get there.

shewasoctober

Well, I'm not getting sacked, so I'll be resitting all 5 exams in September. I sure hope I manage to pull this off as I plan to start studying for the CAP2 exams asap after receiving my CAP1 results.

Cheers! Best of luck to all who have to resit any of the exams.

shelly2

I failed 3 out of 4 Cap1 exams last year. I was absolutely gutted. I completely get where you are coming from when you say its the structure. It took me a long time to settle in to the job, the overtime, and Dublin in general.

Great friends, a patient boyfriend, supportive parents and a great manager motivated me me to give it another go. I studied a little bit every evening and most of the weekends. It all came back to me a lot quicker and things seemed to click.

You will get them the second time if you really want too. Best of luck and keep your fingers crossed for me on Friday!

loctite

To all those who are replying that they think that the OP should just quit... way to go guys!!

Screw them OP. You sound determined, and you will succeed. There is no such thing as a bad student, just poor teachers. If there is anything that you can't understand, it is not the fault of the student that puts the work in.

From what I've heard, ICAI need to have a look at the way their courses are being taught. I can only imagine someone who has come from a background other than Accountancy and working and trying to study for the CAP1's to be a bit overwhelming and failure is to be expected.

Giving up is easy, getting back on the horse is a sign of true character. Just because you don't like the firm or the training organisation, that certainly is not reason to give up on the profession.

Best of Luck, keep it up!!:)

Slippers

shewasoctober wrote: »

So, I've been considering not resitting them and switching to the ACCA and attending a full time structured course where I can focus and not worry about overtime. Also, the ACCA flexibility is quite appealing. I know the exams are just as difficult, if not more demanding, but I like the full time focus.

shewasoctober wrote: »

I know switching to the ACCA wouldn't be an issue and that I'd pass the exams no problem as I would be able to focus more while studying full time.

shewasoctober wrote: »

I believe a full time course would be helpful and keeps the regular and more frequent.

shewasoctober wrote: »

Anyhow, if it deals with the way I learn and the need for more structure and regularity in lectures, maybe switching is best. It'll provide more focus. I can do the full time study and get the first 5-6 exams out of the way and get a feel for the material.

shewasoctober wrote: »

I know there isn't much of a difference in the exams, but there is a difference in the flexibility and the fact that I can study for the ACCA exams full time and complete the rest of my practical experience afterwards.

Did you know CAP1 can be studied full-time in DIT, DCU and the University of Ulster? CAP2 can also be studied full-time in various places. This might suit your learning style more. Doing one of these courses also reduces the experience required to qualify as a chartered accountant from 3.5 years to 3 years.

techman

How did you get on with the CAP1 repeats?

Onearmedbandit

Slippers wrote: »

Did you know CAP1 can be studied full-time in DIT, DCU and the University of Ulster? CAP2 can also be studied full-time in various places. This might suit your learning style more. Doing one of these courses also reduces the experience required to qualify as a chartered accountant from 3.5 years to 3 years.

I wouldn't recommend studying CAP1 or CAP 2 full time, you are essentially missing out on paid salary for two years for exams that are very achievable considering the ample study leave that most firms give nowadays. If the OP is having trouble he should get as much study leave an possible and try to make a good attempt at them (I realise CAP 1 repeats are out already).