2 Zones to 3 Zones for heating Water Seperately?

jaffo

Hi All,
My APT timer on our boiler has packed it in for some reason, timer won't move but still turns boiler on when in the constant position! Anyways, I'm going to see about replacing with a digital timer and at the moment the system is 2 zoned as far as I can tell - 1 Zone downstairs rad heating, 1 Zone upstairs rad heating and HW. I'd like to be able to turn the HW on seperatly to the heating and not have to turn off all our upstairs rads.

Is this a simple task or am I looking at a plumber/electrician call out. The motorised valve upstairs is off a Tee pipe at the base of the HW cyclinder.

Any help,info gratefully recieved.

davelerave

depends on the plumbing .they need to be looped separate upstairs to heating pipes to zone them separate.a plumber will explain better

Randyleprechaun

Attached is a schematic drawing of how I wire up such heating zones. It is for 3 channel(upstairs, downstairs & water). Just leave out 1 for the 2zone.

If you need any clarification just ask. A spark and plumber will probably be required as it is not straight forward for the ordinary person. It is not by any means rocket science but can be tricky.

The beauty of this system is that motorised valves/pumps are not running while heat is not on. Some electricians wire it in such way that room stats are always calling the pump or valve to be on even though the boiler is not .

NOTE: the diagram should say 3no N/O contactors not 3no N/C

jen85

sounds to me like it could be mixed up,,,,,systems like u'v explained>up stairs rads downstairs rads heating seperatly but the hw is heating up with on the the rad zones.sounds to me like cables could be mixed up,,,,dont know what ur system is but u can tell me what u have,,,,
3 zones upstair downstairs and hotwater,(how many electronic valves in ur system?)sounds to me ur up and downstairs rads should come on together controlled by 2 individual wall stas upstairs and downstairs(do u have two wall stats),,,,,,then ur hw should be seperate, sounds like the switch wires on the the hw and the down rads are together when it shoud be the two rad switch wires together. is ur timer a dual timer? how do u switch the rads on upstairs seperate from downstairs &hw?

davelerave

Randyleprechaun wrote: »

Attached is a schematic drawing of how I wire up such heating zones. It is for 3 channel(upstairs, downstairs & water). Just leave out 1 for the 2zone.

If you need any clarification just ask. A spark and plumber will probably be required as it is not straight forward for the ordinary person. It is not by any means rocket science but can be tricky.

The beauty of this system is that motorised valves/pumps are not running while heat is not on. Some electricians wire it in such way that room stats are always calling the pump or valve to be on even though the boiler is not .

NOTE: the diagram should say 3no N/O contactors not 3no N/C

the stat opens the mv which switches the boiler(via contact) is what i'm familiar with for basic systems .does that system work ok?.timer switching boiler ,stats switching valves or pumps?
a 'wiring centre' or 'terminal block' will do the same switching and jointing as your 3 dp contactors .
most of the newer systems seem to be permanent supply to boiler and call loop from stats and timers

jen85

To randy leprechaun

When i've wired 3 zone heating i've wired Spur to timeclock to stats to mini valves from mini valve aux contacts to boiler,usually 4 core boiler with permanent live for over run on pump after the zone is powered down,as the pump would be wired from boiler pump connections.
On your drawings items named pumps are zone vales?

Randyleprechaun

Yes I have shown them as pumps as most houses that i am involved in wiring are that big that pumps are used instaed of valves to isolate zones, or to pump to the zone depending on what way you want to look at it. Most of these houses are bungalows or large two stories out in the sticks.....!!!!!! and pipe runs can become quite long.

the system I have shown works quite well and I have never had any complaints, also people find it easy to understand & operate.

2011

When i've wired 3 zone heating i've wired Spur to timeclock to stats to mini valves from mini valve aux contacts to boiler,usually 4 core boiler with permanent live for over run on pump after the zone is powered down,as the pump would be wired from boiler pump connections.

Below is a diagram showing what you have described. I would suggest that you let the plumber decide if an additional circulation pump (there is normally one within the boiler) are required then let the plumber tell you under what conditions it should run.





From the "circuit diagram" sticky.

Randyleprechaun

I have to agree with 2011. You must let the plumber decide how he wants the whole thing to work and then you just come up with a way to do it, however simple or complex it may be. At the end of the day, he knows how it should all work and he needs you to control it for him.

I suggest keeping it simple but functional.

davelerave

Randyleprechaun wrote: »

Yes I have shown them as pumps as most houses that i am involved in wiring are that big that pumps are used instaed of valves to isolate zones, or to pump to the zone depending on what way you want to look at it. Most of these houses are bungalows or large two stories out in the sticks.....!!!!!! and pipe runs can become quite long.

the system I have shown works quite well and I have never had any complaints, also people find it easy to understand & operate.

how are the main heating pump and boiler regulated when they are 'powered on and off ' via timer, and stats are not calling for heat(ie;zone pumps off).what type boiler would this be?.i can envisage a' permanent supply' to 'advanced type' boiler and stats switching zone pumps on and off

Bruthal

davelerave wrote: »

how are the main heating pump and boiler regulated when they are 'powered on and off ' via timer, and stats are not calling for heat(ie;zone pumps off).what type boiler would this be?.i can envisage a' permanent supply' to 'advanced type' boiler and stats switching zone pumps on and off

Yes the boiler should have permanent supply so its pump can keep running for a few minutes even after its switched supply to fire it up is removed, so if for example the cylinder stat brings the boiler on to heat water, when the water is heated and stat goes off, closing the valve which switches off the switched supply to boiler, it should still run for a few minutes to dissapate the heat in the boiler.

frankmckenna

this is a great system only if plumbed with a separate pump for each zone but in this case i think there is 2 mini valves

case_sensitive

Bit of a zombie thread revival, but I'm only here because my timer packed it in this week, and I replaced it with a digital 2 zone one (it was a primitive analog 1 zone switch).
The diagram that came with the new timer wasn't great, and the wiring that came out of the wall and old timer was completely unlabeled, so it was a bit of a struggle, but I came good in the end, after much trial and error.