Bourdais out of Toro Rosso

Iron Hide

Looks like Sebastian Bourdais has lost his seat at Toro Rosso, thank christ......

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76945

amacachi

Sorry to see him going tbh, can't work out what went wrong compared to his ChampCar career.

54kroc

Red Storm wrote: »

Looks like Sebastian Bourdais has lost his seat at Toro Rosso, thank christ......

+1
It's amazing how crap he was given that he won the champ car series four times in a row.

Iron Hide

While champcar is damn competitive and the cars are quick, they're nothing compared to F1.. a 150 horsepower difference i think, and theres a fair few street circuits in the series, which pretty much consist of right angled corners and a chicane.. A lot easier than F1 tracks...

Then again Bourdais wasn't the worst driver to grace F1, Yuji Ide, Tora Takagi, Alex Yoong, Narain Karthikeyan the list goes on... And Kazuki Nakajima isn't doing himself any favours either...

amacachi

Red Storm wrote: »

While champcar is damn competitive and the cars are quick, they're nothing compared to F1.. a 150 horsepower difference i think, and theres a fair few street circuits in the series, which pretty much consist of right angled corners and a chicane.. A lot easier than F1 tracks...

Then again Bourdais wasn't the worst driver to grace F1, Yuji Ide, Tora Takagi, Alex Yoong, Narain Karthikeyan the list goes on... And Kazuki Nakajima isn't doing himself any favours either...

Yeah but diving skill should transfer a bit more than it did. Ya can say it was the car but he usually had a second a lap over the field which his teammates didn't, and then gets his ass handed to him by a kid.

EvilMonkey

I think he just wasn't able to adapt his driving style to F1.
According to Trullis twitter Nelson Piquet could be gone too!

54kroc

EvilMonkey wrote: »

I think he just wasn't able to adapt his driving style to F1.
According to Trullis twitter Nelson Piquet could be gone too!

Thats a shame i think he's just unlucky that alonso is his team mate

enzo7

There is a huge diffrence between making it in the states and making it in f1 just ask montoya.

Its a pitty bout piquet but regardless whos his team mate he was never going to be good enough.

mikedragon32

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Theirs is nothing easy about Indy car, they are stupidly quick and they do without any silly driver aids. They are flat out (200mph) on most of their tracks for long periods of time.They are 800hp turbo charged single seaters so dont think they are sheds.Not to mention they use one or two of the tracks that F1 race on.

I dont like F1 snobbery and considering Bourdais has more top tier championships that the majority of the F1 grid he should get the respect he deserves.

Lightning, you have to concede though that no matter how fast Indy/Champ cars are, the drivers from those series who make it in F1 are rarer than hens teeth. Whereas F1 drivers going the other way tend to do quite well (Mansell springs to mind).

Remember Zanardi's travails at Williams? They tried all sorts of mods to the car to get it to work for his style and nothing seemed to work as the compromise for his driving inevitibly seemed to make his car slower.

Shame to see Bourdais go though, there's worse than him on the circuit at the moment.

gpjordanf1

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Theirs is nothing easy about Indy car, they are stupidly quick and they do without any silly driver aids. They are flat out (200mph) on most of their tracks for long periods of time.They are 800hp turbo charged single seaters so dont think they are sheds.Not to mention they use one or two of the tracks that F1 race on.

I dont like F1 snobbery and considering Bourdais has more top tier championships that the majority of the F1 grid he should get the respect he deserves.

Indy car sucks, stopped watching it years ago. Bourdais is terrible, suprised he lasted this long, he showed nothing all season!
He has top tier championships ( well done ) when held up against F1 though it really shows they are no more than 2nd tier championships!

mikedragon32 wrote: »

Lightning, you have to concede though that no matter how fast Indy/Champ cars are, the drivers from those series who make it in F1 are rarer than hens teeth. Whereas F1 drivers going the other way tend to do quite well (Mansell springs to mind).

Remember Zanardi's travails at Williams? They tried all sorts of mods to the car to get it to work for his style and nothing seemed to work as the compromise for his driving inevitibly seemed to make his car slower.

Shame to see Bourdais go though, there's worse than him on the circuit at the moment.

the only guy to make it was JV, but he was all about the cash and that was his downfall, he could have been a legend. His Dad would be proud, where did he end up again? Another top tier championship in the US of A?

Oh and theres nobody worse than Bourdais on the grid at the moment, well theres Raikkonen but he's drunk most of the time. Wait till Alfonso takes his seat!

amacachi

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

the only guy to make it was JV, but he was all about the cash and that was his downfall, he could have been a legend. His Dad would be proud, where did he end up again? Another top tier championship in the US of A?

Yep, excellent driver in F1 and yet he can rarely even get a drive against some "hicks" going around in circles in ****ty trucks. Funny that.

gpjordanf1

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, their is a lot of anger in your post:) Just because Bourdais didnt do as well as he hoped it doesnt mean he is useless. Some drivers just dont take to F1 cars its as simple as that. In your post you manage to insult two F1 champions so I dont know what you are expecting from the current grid!

No anger here Bud!

I never said he was useless just no where near good enough for F1, he has won championships and well done to him, dont blame him for giving it a go, but from the start he choked, couldn't get my (angry) head around it.

I haven't insulted any F1 champions, I just insulted JV & the lush Kimi, theres a big difference.
Was there a rumor circulating the Leob was interested in the drive? I guarantee that he wouldn't make it either, legend that he is!

mikedragon32

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Indy car sucks, stopped watching it years ago. Bourdais is terrible, suprised he lasted this long, he showed nothing all season!
He has top tier championships ( well done ) when held up against F1 though it really shows they are no more than 2nd tier championships!



the only guy to make it was JV, but he was all about the cash and that was his downfall, he could have been a legend. His Dad would be proud, where did he end up again? Another top tier championship in the US of A?

Oh and theres nobody worse than Bourdais on the grid at the moment, well theres Raikkonen but he's drunk most of the time. Wait till Alfonso takes his seat!

I never liked JV, all about the money as you pointed out, but he was also a pretty lazy driver, not interested in testing or in doing promo work which is the lifeblood of most teams. I also think that he won his world Championship as a good driver in what was the best car by far at the time (in much the same way as Hill did before him).

vincenzolorenzo

cork45 wrote: »

Thats a shame i think he's just unlucky that alonso is his team mate

No he's not unlucky, just crap. How many times has he crashed out due to his own mistakes?? Couldn't believe it when Flavio re-signed him for this year. Apart from a fairly lucky 2nd in hockenheim last year he has been pretty much terrible all along. get rid of him i say!!!

I've often wondered why it is that drivers coming into F1 after racing in Indy/Champ cars so rarely turn out to be in any way successful. I know the tracks are generally quite different and different driving style required, etc etc but surely they can't be that different???

Frank Bullitt

I wonder if we will see Senna from any of these sackings?

Chopper888

Gintonious wrote: »

I wonder if we will see Senna from any of these sackings?

I think its going to be Jaime Alguersuari who is going to replace Seb Bourdais at Toro Rosso. He has strong connections with Red Bull and also has the backing of the Spanish oil company Repsol.

EvilMonkey

Gintonious wrote: »

I wonder if we will see Senna from any of these sackings?

Senna turned them down so he must have a contract for 2010 lined up.

vincenzolorenzo

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Senna turned them down so he must have a contract for 2010 lined up.

Really? Where did you hear that???

EvilMonkey

I read it somewhere earlier in the week, i have a look and see if i can find it. (maybe i dreamt it :pac:)

muckwarrior

After Reubens' outburst I wouldn't be surprised if senna replaced him next year.

TheChrisD

Sad to see Seb go, he did what he could in a car that was usually at the wrong end of the grid for his liking. He did have flashes of brilliance though. Ran 3rd at Spa '08 before the last lap rain caught him out while on dry tyres, and scoring in his first race as well.

Wonder if Newman/Hass/Lanigan will run a 3rd car for him in the IndyCars either this year or the next?

Iron Hide

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I was talking to a bloke a while ago who had a test in a champ car and he said they were a completely different beast to any other type of single seater he has driven. It took him a while to adjust to it.

Has the guy driven comparable single seaters though? (gp2, f2 etc...)

Slutmonkey57b

Bourdais Threatens Legal Action.

Talk about missing the ****ing point. Where does he think this is going to get him? IRL/Champ car won't be bothered by his failure in F1 since they're used to F1's failures doing well over there. It's not going to get him a drive. And he's not going to get a payout from Red Bull's very expensive F1 lawyers. Muppet Alert.

Charlie-Bravo

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Bourdais Threatens Legal Action.

Talk about missing the ****ing point. Where does he think this is going to get him? IRL/Champ car won't be bothered by his failure in F1 since they're used to F1's failures doing well over there. It's not going to get him a drive. And he's not going to get a payout from Red Bull's very expensive F1 lawyers. Muppet Alert.

If Bourdais has a contract till the end of the season, and it has no heavy performance criterion, then STR would be in breach of the contract...the law is the law and he is entitled to chase it (he's been chasing other cars all this and last season), he could be very well be entitled to damages...

...but as you say, it's not going to get him anywhere! Alas, business is busniess and the only winners are the lawyers!

leeroybrown

Presumably Bourdais isn't too happy with whatever settlement he's been offered to end his contract. Getting dropped mid season presumably leaves him somewhat out of pocket. I'd guess that his press release is just part of a move to negotiate a reasonable settlement with Toro Rosso to end the contract.

Given Toro Rosso's purpose in life it makes sense that they move him on. There's no point in having someone who's performing poorly out there when they could be developing another driver who might also be more competitive.

Regarding the Bruno Senna mentions, I'd guess that he'll be in the second Brawn next year. He'd tested the car prior to this season and would likely have been the second Honda driver had they not decided to pull out. As far as I remember Ross Brawn said that Barrichello only got the drive this season due to him feeling that he needed a very experienced driver to test and develop the car at very short notice. Otherwise I reckon it would have been Senna's seat.

Slutmonkey57b

Davidson surely has a shout at the second Brawn seat next year, given that he's already in there as test driver. He's got more form than Senna.

amacachi

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Davidson surely has a shout at the second Brawn seat next year, given that he's already in there as test driver. He's got more form than Senna.

Ridiculous that he's not got a drive when ya seem some who have.

EvilMonkey

Bourdais would probably brought some sponsorship money to Torro Rosso, hes probably just looking for some of it back.

@vincenzolorenzo i couldn't find where i read about senna, consider it bull**** :P but it did stick in my mind for some reason. I think its likely he will be in F1 next year anyway.

hi_sir

lot a talk about the rallying world linking seb loeb to this seat even for the last race of the season,he drive alonso's car last year and wasnt far of the pace at a test was quicker than most of the second half of the grid payboys.could we see a sceanario where an F1 champ heads to the WRC and a WRC champ heads to F1

hi_sir

ficus you dont really know too much about the man he has done Le mans a few times so hes no racing novice,he's one of these fellas that has been born with talent so he'd adapt

hi_sir

Ficus wrote: »

i know a lot about the man hi sir.
Le mans racing and f1 racing are slightly different in terms of the way the races are driven.

you make me laugh in a post or two ago you stated ''One of big questions is how would his racing skills do, as he has never been in a pack while racing? '' now your backtracking, yea le mans and F1 differ ones single seater the other is sports car but the last time i looked racing was racing and the main aim was to be the quickest man on the track no matter what type of car you drove.so ficus when your in a hole dont keep digging

hi_sir

you have avoided my point you stated ''One of big questions is how would his racing skills do, as he has never been in a pack while racing? '' and as i have proved he has now im not geting to the tech stuff of racing but my point is been missed at the end of the day if seb has raced before theres no reeason why he could not take f1 by storm at the end of the day he's prob the most talented guy ever to drive a rally car and if you you a god given motorsport talent well then you shoul be midlen handy at any form of the sport,give the guy credit,but then i barking up a tree here.and no i havent raced enduro or sprints,i have carted but i am a rally man the ballsy form of motorsport

vincenzolorenzo

Wow, things are getting tetchy here! I for one would love to see loeb in an F1 race, just to see how he would do. You have to admit though hi sir that Ficus and Lightning have a point. Racing in Le Mans is completely different to F1. Its not flat out all the time and its important to nurse the car a bit too to get to the finish. So while he does have 'some experience of racing in a pack' its a very different experience to what he would find in F1. Also his race craft wouldn't be as well developed as some of the other guys who started in karts when they were kids and worked their way up. They are facts.

However it is obvious he has a huge amount of natural talent and i'm sure he's the kind of driver that could be quick in any kind of car. He could definitely hold his own in F1 if he so wished. Realistically though at his age (35) he's not going to make a career out of it, maybe just a couple of one off drives here and there. Also he's not going to set the world alight driving a Toro Rosso. Getting into Q2 would be a great achievement. Would love to see him have a pop at it though

Iron Hide

hi_sir wrote: »

you have avoided my point you stated ''One of big questions is how would his racing skills do, as he has never been in a pack while racing? '' and as i have proved he has now im not geting to the tech stuff of racing but my point is been missed at the end of the day if seb has raced before theres no reeason why he could not take f1 by storm at the end of the day he's prob the most talented guy ever to drive a rally car and if you you a god given motorsport talent well then you shoul be midlen handy at any form of the sport,give the guy credit,but then i barking up a tree here.and no i havent raced enduro or sprints,i have carted but i am a rally man the ballsy form of motorsport

b****ks form of motorsport maybe.

And your forgetting one or two people here, Tommi Makkinen, Colin McRae, Carlos Sainz...

Would be a good way for Loeb to end his career, a season or two in F1..

hi_sir

what's bollocks about it explain yourself
yes tommi carlos and colin yea top top drivers but maybe lacked the mental strenght of loeb ok loeb is rallying in a easier time but on paper has the best results ever in the wrc

so it now sounds like loeb may do the last race of the F1 season but he will not be in F1 next season http://www.rallybuzz.com/loeb-f1-abu-dhabi-possible/

Iron Hide

hi_sir wrote: »

what's bollocks about it explain yourself
yes tommi carlos and colin yea top top drivers but maybe lacked the mental strenght of loeb ok loeb is rallying in a easier time but on paper has the best results ever in the wrc

so it now sounds like loeb may do the last race of the F1 season but he will not be in F1 next season http://www.rallybuzz.com/loeb-f1-abu-dhabi-possible/

spinning around old country roads on your own racing against a clock never really appealed to me...

hi_sir

Red Storm wrote: »

spinning around old country roads on your own racing against a clock never really appealed to me...

you seem have a very narrow minded oppinion,tell what floats your boat sitting in front of the TV wondering what lap lewis and the chaps will pit on,or are you one of these F1 groupies that think rally folk are peasant lower class and i have got that crap plenty of times before,please sir tell me what floats your boat is it F1, hillclimbing mudpluging or what

Iron Hide

hi_sir wrote: »

you seem have a very narrow minded oppinion,tell what floats your boat sitting in front of the TV wondering what lap lewis and the chaps will pit on,or are you one of these F1 groupies that think rally folk are peasant lower class and i have got that crap plenty of times before,please sir tell me what floats your boat is it F1, hillclimbing mudpluging or what

Bang on!

Yes F1 floats my boat, 180mph wheel to wheel racing over boy racers on country roads any day of the week...

hi_sir

answer me this have you ever competed on a motorsort event

Biro

Only a moran would call rallying "bollocks". Every sport is excellent in it's own right, whether you like it or not is a different story, but that doesn't make the sport any less decent. Apart from bowles. That's pointless!

vincenzolorenzo

I bloody well knew this thread was going to descend into a slagging match. Most rally fans seem to have a chip on their shoulder about F1. Can people not just accept that both codes require massive skill and bravery and just enjoy watching them????? Red Storm you're out of line slaggin off rallying because while it might not involve wheel to wheel racing it does require a massive amount of driver skill and car control. Hi sir, just pause for a second and remove that massive chip from your shoulder! Lets just enjoy the racing!

hi_sir

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

I bloody well knew this thread was going to descend into a slagging match. Most rally fans seem to have a chip on their shoulder about F1. Can people not just accept that both codes require massive skill and bravery and just enjoy watching them????? Red Storm you're out of line slaggin off rallying because while it might not involve wheel to wheel racing it does require a massive amount of driver skill and car control. Hi sir, just pause for a second and remove that massive chip from your shoulder! Lets just enjoy the racing!

i have no chip on my shoulder about F1 at all my prob was the way that red storm and his stupid comments,if you have never tried it dont knock it.and i agree there are two aspects of driving,and i think it might be great to kimmi doing rally finland this weekend and seb may do the last F1 race of the season.but the point i was trying to make is if you are as talented as loeb why should you not be able to step into F1,it has happened in other sports one example kevin moran played at the highest level with dublin then went on to have a top soccer carrer both are forms of football if you have the talent you can be sucessful no matter what the form of the sport.
as for the chip on my shoulder i have got crap in the past from and im sure its a very small few like red storm about ye rallying idiots running around the roads in bangers.i have no prob's with racing i have now got roped into help with two young kid's locally that are karting,and tell ya you see a diffrent side to things,it can be enjoying,but my first love ill allways be rallying let it be competing,marshalling or on the orginising side of things.as far as im concerned this matter is closed bar red storm to come to his sences and stop looking down on rallying

EvilMonkey

hi_sir wrote: »

but the point i was trying to make is if you are as talented as loeb why should you not be able to step into F1,it has happened in other sports one example kevin moran played at the highest level with dublin then went on to have a top soccer carrer both are forms of football if you have the talent you can be sucessful no matter what the form of the sport.

There is no reason he wont do well but its very rare for the person to excel in too very different forms of motorsport. It has happened though. I would be very interested in seeing how Loeb dose if this goes ahead.

hi_sir

i think he may only be diping his toe in the water do for the future looks like he's about to sign for citroen next year but i think he's looking for new challanges out side the WRC
true if the cars not up to the job you wont go far no matter how huge your talent