Discrimination and MAYBE Racism in Ireland

rupamede

how my friend philippino girl was treated

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A few weeks ago my friend from the Phillippines told me something that really disgusted me about the way the Irish treat people when they are foreigners in this country.

She is actually married to an Irishman for sometime and she's been working in Ireland for a few years too - thus paying her taxes like any Irish citizen - still she is not a citizen yet, although she is married to an Irishman!

But let me go straight to the point. They are buying a house and applied for a mortgage. In order to get this mortgage, my friend had to go through an HIV test, a full blood count and a thorough health check up with many embarrassing questions (of intimate nature) for the Life Insurance. Her husband did NOT because he is IRISH so he was automatically not required to do any tests!!!
It is like they are just doing things much more difficult for foreigners in Ireland, which does not seem fair, does it? As if they expect you to either give up or suffer here...

I am an European Union Citizen and I also would like to buy house in Ireland and stay here but recent events are making me think twice, especially this episode that happened to my friend...

I dont think I want to stay in a country where Life Insurance discriminate you because you are a foreigner when you are paying the same tax as an Irish citizen. The whole thing just does not seem to be fair, does it?

I know I am going to get nasty replies from Irish posters telling if you dont like this country go away as this has happened to me before on boards.ie but I just thought I had to say it and of course those rude remarks will be totally ignored for what they are.

Boards.ie in my opinion should NOT be a place for posters to attack each other and see who wins the best argument and who has the last word. I have seen a lot of that in here. Those posts are not helpful and will be ignored.

What I am reporting is trully a discrimination issue! Perhaps you're Irish and you have suffered discrimination too for your sexual orientation, health issues, etc. Discrimination should not be allowed anywhere and this is what my post tries to debate. Instead of attacking the poster to say you have also been discriminated and that's life get over it I do not think is helpful and if we do not stick together against the way companies and institutions discriminate then nothing will ever be done.

Thanks.

Riskymove

I am irish and I have signed up for life insurance, income protection, mortgage protection etc over the years

every form has asked me questions about my health, including of an intimate nature and I have had to give details of my GP etc and they all said a check-up may be required

rupamede

rupamede wrote: »

But let me go straight to the point. They are buying a house and applied for a mortgage. In order to get this mortgage, my friend had to go through an HIV test, a full blood count and a thorough health check up with many embarrassing questions (of intimate nature) for the Life Insurance. Her husband did NOT because he is IRISH so he was automatically not required to do any tests!!!

Did they give that as the reason?

In my experience, many people have to give a full medical check up to obtain life assurance, which is of course necessary for 90% of mortgages. Ideally they should do this in every situation, but obviously if someone has had a full medical record in this country they may waive the requirement. I didn't have to do it, I suspect because I was friendly with the fellow selling the policy for the bank so they glossed over the need to do it! On the other hand, many of my friends have had to go through full medical checkups, and of course that detail is intimate.

It is unfortunate, but I think it's par for the course and to a certain extent the problem here is that they waived the strict formal requirements for the husband so the wife might have wondered why she was being asked to do something he wasn't. But it's really nothing that sinister.

Either way, of course she can challenge the matter by going to the Equality Authority, which is cheap to access and the forms are online. I can tell her now though, it'll be a waste of time. Like the old person complaining that the requirement is ageist, or the woman complaining it is sexist.

turgon

Given that shes from the Philippines there probably a higher chance she does have HIV. This probably can be proved statistically. The mortgage brokers were just taking due caution to make sure she was able to pay her full debts.

What you are suggesting is we ignore mathematical statistics and probability with the goal of some kind of political correctness. But you ignore the fact this decision wasnt made on the basis of her race, it was made on the basis of her birthplace.

Its the same when you go to donate blood. Sample questions include "Was you mother born in South America?" or "Have you been to a malarial zone in the last 12 months?" Theyre just medical questions necessitated by statistics showing these places have higher rates of HIV.

Tbh, if your insulted by this then I would say you went out with the mindframe of wanting to be insulted.

is_that_so

I'd also say this is just a set of routine rules applied to a particular part of the world for medical reasons. I myself can no longer give blood as I lived in the UK for a time, a fact that disappoints me but one I understand.

I can see why someone might jump to the conclusion that it was discriminatory though, and certainly there's plenty of examples out there to shame us. It's just that I'm not sure this fits the category...

dsmythy

As a European Union citizen you probably wouldn't have to go through similar tests yourself anyway.

copernico

As a non-Irish European living in Ireland for over 10 years, I have observed rampant job-place discrimination against two groups: aged over 40 and foreigners. Having been a company manager for years during the "boom", I had to fight against colleagues who insisted in finding fault in any candidate that was "too old" (e.g. 35!) or "we do not understand him" (impossible: I did, and English is not my native language) or simply "will not fit is not like us". I belong to several organisations and clubs where I have met over the years hundreds of people in the above situations, and all refer the same issues.

More recently we have heard on TV that foreigners, who had virtually no unemployment in Ireland until recently, and who are a minuscule proportion of the whole population, total 1/3 rd of the unemployed: this is because, when jobs went, the first affected were the foreigners. Many of them, unfortunately, are not in a condition to return anywyere.

That age and ethnicity discrimination is COMMON in Ireland has been verified by scientific research: this report is available online:

http://www.equality.ie/index.asp?docID=723

If we are going to help Ireland out of the gloom, ignoring reality will not do.
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Dob74

So what's the big deal. She doesn't have HIV she gets the life insurance and mortgage. She has HIV she doesn't.

Five years ago I was working on a building site with 20 irish workers. After six months all the irish workers where laid off or left. 20 Polish workers where hired instead. Is this racism or does it only apply when non irish are being screwed over.

copernico

I am very sad to read the latest reply. It shows that my post (and the recommended source) were not carefully read.

If I refer to a form of discrimination, that does not mean that other discriminations exist, and all are wrong. Two obvious examples are (1) the mentioned replacement of Irish workers by similarly-skilled but lower-paid foreigners, and (2) the more subtle but much more nefarious enlargement of the European Union allowing large corporations to improve their lot moving to cheaper countries: this has been a disgrace for Ireland, and is certainly a gross form of discrimination.

However, both managerial experience and published research show that the discrimination in Ireland is much stronger AGAINST foreigners. Some of them, professionals, have aired their complaints to the media. Many cases are well-known and verified. And different statistics (not just the one I quoted) have been compiled and published over the last few years.

I find it pointless to keep arguing over widely known and proven facts.
As far as I am concerned, this discussion is over.