How to increase speed in distance running?

buck65

Little history first.
Ran a bit in my 20s , raced at 7 min mile, training pace was 8 min a mile, got injured and went to other sports. 12 years later,last summer, returned to running.
My main problem is this - after 2-3 months of low mileage training (3x3 miles per week) my time is the same as it is now. I have been running an average of 20 miles per week since christmas but my pace is not changing much.
My training pace is now aprox 9min-9.30min a mile.
I ran the Ballycotton 10 and the Achill Half recently and my racing times are similar to my training pace.
I would like to pick the pace up a bit and have done some interval training but as I am training for DCM 09 at the moment most of my runs are steady or LSR.
Getting a bit frustrated by my inability to up the pace, what to do?

TFBubendorfer

20 miles per week is not very much, especially if you're training for a marathon. Personally, I'd forget about interval training and up the mileage instead. Once you can run longer distances without problems, you can add interval training.

buck65

I know but this is my average til now. Obviously as I am training for a marathon the mileage will increase to 30-35 per week. I am a novice marathoner so any more is unlikely.

shels4ever

buck65 wrote: »

I know but this is my average til now. Obviously as I am training for a marathon the mileage will increase to 30-35 per week. I am a novice marathoner so any more is unlikely.

I would say stick with the mileage increase if you get to about the 35/40 miles per week mark you will notice an improvment . I would also advise some tempo runs as apposed to pure interval running to start gettting the speed into the legs.

If you were doing lots of easy running at about the 9 min mil mark then your longer runs should be around the 10 min mile mark.

If thats the case maybe try a tempo run once a week do 2 miles easy then 2 X 8 mins @8:40 pace with some time to recover , I started with this last year and built the tempo run upto about 35 mins by years end. I found that really helped.

Running Bing

buck65 wrote: »

I know but this is my average til now. Obviously as I am training for a marathon the mileage will increase to 30-35 per week. I am a novice marathoner so any more is unlikely.

I was in a similiar place last year. I started training for Dublin doing a relatively low mileage programme (longest week was 38 miles most around high 20's) and I was running near identical paces to yourself.

I think you need to realise that to run a marathon your going to need lots of endurance, if your running 30-35 mile a week thats really only enough to get the endurance you need, your not going to make big inroads into being fast.

So I think if you want to do DCM09 you'll have to accept that the training your doing is to build the ability to run 26.2 miles, not to run faster. As your programme progresses and the mileage increases you will naturally get a bit faster but not by much.


I was the same as you though, started running and immediately went for the marathon and then got frustrated when I was'nt running fast. Sorry if this sounds harsh but its just not really possible to put on a pair of running shoes, start training for a marathon and run it fast.

shels4ever

Running Bing wrote: »

I was in a similiar place last year. I started training for Dublin doing a relatively low mileage programme (longest week was 38 miles most around high 20's) and I was running near identical paces to yourself.

I think you need to realise that to run a marathon your going to need lots of endurance, if your running 30-35 mile a week thats really only enough to get the endurance you need, your not going to make big inroads into being fast.

So I think if you want to do DCM09 you'll have to accept that the training your doing is to build the ability to run 26.2 miles, not to run faster. As your programme progresses and the mileage increases you will naturally get a bit faster but not by much.


I was the same as you though, started running and immediately went for the marathon and then got frustrated when I was'nt running fast. Sorry if this sounds harsh but its just not really possible to put on a pair of running shoes, start training for a marathon and run it fast.

I'd agree with the bulk of that, but I think a tempo run per week would be needed also, For a marathon the bluk of your training is done at easyish pace, This increased stamina from long runs will help improve your speed also, not as much as speed training but the benifits will be seen also. I've basically run pb's over shorter distance mostly due to the mileage from the marathon.

daheff

i'd disagree....yes you will need to up your mileage as you get closer to the marathon..but for now you are doing fine


to increase your speed you need to start off with a smaller distance (say 5 k) and aim to do it in X time (say 25mins to start off)

If you do that (at least) once a week (on top of your longer runs) you will see your times drop


Alternatively you can run fartlek-where for part of your run you try to run faster than your normal pace.

either of those techniques can increase your speed

TFBubendorfer

daheff wrote: »

i'd disagree....yes you will need to up your mileage as you get closer to the marathon..but for now you are doing fine

Well, I disagree with you disagreeing. The marathon is only 15 weeks away. It's high time to train for endurance. If you leave it any longer, it will most likely be too late to have much effect for the marathon this year.

ManFromAtlantis

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Well, I disagree with you disagreeing. The marathon is only 15 weeks away. It's high time to train for endurance. If you leave it any longer, it will most likely be too late to have much effect for the marathon this year.

well i disagree with you disagreeing to him disagreeing .,..........albeit i dont know why.:)

tergat

buck65 wrote: »

Little history first.
Ran a bit in my 20s , raced at 7 min mile, training pace was 8 min a mile, got injured and went to other sports. 12 years later,last summer, returned to running.
My main problem is this - after 2-3 months of low mileage training (3x3 miles per week) my time is the same as it is now. I have been running an average of 20 miles per week since christmas but my pace is not changing much.
My training pace is now aprox 9min-9.30min a mile.
I ran the Ballycotton 10 and the Achill Half recently and my racing times are similar to my training pace.
I would like to pick the pace up a bit and have done some interval training but as I am training for DCM 09 at the moment most of my runs are steady or LSR.
Getting a bit frustrated by my inability to up the pace, what to do?

buck65,

Some thoughts below on Marathon training I posted some weeks back:

Whenever you prepare for the marathon, you need to do workouts that last a long time, twice per week (Wed & Sun). If you have a history of injuries or breaking down easily that may mean you should do only One Long (Big) Workout per week. However, most runners need to run shorter, slower runs between the Big Workouts, this makes all the difference in the world. Runners will feel good doing Big Workouts because they aren’t running too much distance work between each Big Workout. That is, they are using a bigger variance between the important (key) workouts and the regular, every day, runs. For example, a club runner using a different training program might be running 10 milers every day between harder workouts but would be better to run just 6-7miles between key workouts.

I’ve never believed that high mileage is necessarily the best way to train for marathons. Though mileage builds aerobic capacity, it is not specific. Big (Long) Workouts, on the other hand, are specific. They simulate the demands of the event. That’s the key!

Big workouts vary in length or duration relative to a runner’s ability and experience, but generally “Big” means at least 80-90 minutes of continuous running. When you run more than 90 minutes three important elements of exercise physiology are improved: glycogen storing, fat burning, and shock absorption. This doesn’t even include the mental elements: relaxation while tired, concentration, and tenacity.

Failing to do well in a marathon typically has one of two reasons. The first is due to tapering too early and not having sufficient endurance to last the event duration. The second is due to sore legs. If you have sore legs in the first 10 miles or your legs are stiff and you are laboring, it probably due to excessive training: too much, too hard, too long, for too many weeks. If you do fail to perform well, ask yourself which one of the two is the cause, and learn from your mistakes so that next time you will conquer the beast!

I think you should start doing two Big Workouts per week - those are the only fast days you should do! One of the days run half-marathon paced pickups or reps (about 25-30 minutes worth is good for you) and the other day (on the weekend) do a long run with marathon pace or Tempo paced pickups or steady states included. I recommend about 30-60 minutes of MP or Tempo running during the longer Big Workout (you should do it in the morning, first thing, just like you'd do a marathon race). The other days run 40-60 mins, nice and slow.

Sample Workouts:
2-4 miles warmup, then choose one of the following:
- 3 x 2-4 miles @ AT pace, jog 2 minutes between, then 6 x 100 @ 5k pace, jog 100
- 3-4 x 1.5-3 miles @ MP, jog 2 minutes between, then 6 x 100 @ 5k, jog 100
- 3-4 x 1.5-2 miles @ HMP, jog 2 minutes between, then 6 x 100m @ 5k, jog 100
- 4-6 x .75-1.0 miles at @ 10K pace, jog 2 minutes between, then 6 x 100 @ 5k, jog 100
* Conclude the workout with 2-4 miles at an easy pace.

AT pace is your Long Tempo pace. To make things simple, just add 37 seconds per km or 1 minute per mile to your 3k / 2-mile race-pace. Let's say you can run 3km in 10 minutes in a race, now. That's 3:20 seconds per km. Add 37 seconds per km to that and use that pace in your training at AT or LT pace. So, LT (AT) is 3:57/km).

Keep this training consistant and you will find a big improvement in your running.

For you buck65, it is imperative that you focus on trying to run more and train 1-2 times weekly in the stamina zone 80-92% of max heart rate (Long Tempo-CV pace). If you improve your endurance your paces will automatically improve. Forget speed workouts, when training for a marathon these 2 elements are the key:
1) Glycogen storing
2) Shock absorption

The faster you run the more glycogen you burn so doing SPEEDWORK trains your body to do this. For the marathon you want the complete opposite, that being to conserve glycogen stores. You train your body to do this by doing long runs etc. Your focus has to be to run more often its that simple!

Tergat

buck65

Great post Tergat thanks, now where's me calculator?!