The 19th County

khn10ur3bogzpa

I was recently watching a sky sports repeat and Ian Ward the Sky Sports interviewer asked something quite interesting. They were discussing the future of Irish Cricket and the way forward. He asked if perhaps Ireland should become the 19th county?

What do people think about this idea? Do you think it would be the right way to develop Irish cricket? Do you think the ECB and other counties would allow it? Do we have the fan base to support a full time professional team? etc etc

TrueDub

Thalia Gifted Pumice wrote: »

I was recently watching a sky sports repeat and Ian Ward the Sky Sports interviewer asked something quite interesting. They were discussing the future of Irish Cricket and the way forward. He asked if perhaps Ireland should become the 19th county?

What do people think about this idea? Do you think it would be the right way to develop Irish cricket? Do you think the ECB and other counties would allow it? Do we have the fan base to support a full time professional team? etc etc

Dead against it.

We play international cricket, not domestic cricket. Our team in the Friends Provident Trophy should be designated the A Team, or the Leprechauns, or the Toora-Looras or something, but not Ireland.

Becoming the 19th county would bury us in county cricket.

khn10ur3bogzpa

Yes we do play international cricket but we dont have full time professionals. Two centrally contracted and some others who play with counties.

To suggest we are a higher standard is ridiculous because when we play the counties we cant beat them. I think Worchester were the only team we beat this year.

So the only chance for a fully professional team is to play in the County Championship? We dont play test matches. The only reason England can have a full team of centraly contracted players is because of test cricket. This is not possible for Ireland so the only other option is surely to play county cricket?

rednik

County cricket is a great idea and probably the best way for our own cricketers to improve and I for one would love to see it. Of course just like England most of our matches would just not finish due to our increasingly bad summers. To see the best players playing here every summer would be great.

d'Oracle

This would destroy our international team.

The ECB already treat us as the 19th county.
If it becomes official, we will loose out on international cricket, of that I have no doubt.

TrueDub

Thalia Gifted Pumice wrote: »

To suggest we are a higher standard is ridiculous because when we play the counties we cant beat them. I think Worchester were the only team we beat this year.

Because we play an A team in that competition. Our county-contracted players don't play, others are rested/injured after the spring tours, we blood new players.

I'm not suggesting we're a higher standard, we're not. But we'll never get there if we sign into county cricket. That would simply put a glass ceiling over us.

Thalia Gifted Pumice wrote: »

So the only chance for a fully professional team is to play in the County Championship? We dont play test matches. The only reason England can have a full team of centraly contracted players is because of test cricket. This is not possible for Ireland so the only other option is surely to play county cricket?

And we will never play test cricket if we go full-time into county cricket. It would be the most backward of steps. We have more options as an international nation.

khn10ur3bogzpa

TrueDub wrote: »

Because we play an A team in that competition. Our county-contracted players don't play, others are rested/injured after the spring tours, we blood new players.

True but we also play people who are not Irish. For example Jesse Ryder. I never said it should be the international team.

TrueDub wrote: »

I'm not suggesting we're a higher standard, we're not. But we'll never get there if we sign into county cricket. That would simply put a glass ceiling over us.

And we will never play test cricket if we go full-time into county cricket. It would be the most backward of steps. We have more options as an international nation.

What is the logic behind this statement? How is it backward? If the accepted goal is eventual test status then we must improve our team. The best way to do that is to have full time professionals. The only way to achieve that is by playing enough cricket to support professionals. Can you suggest another way of creating enough revenue to support a squad other than playing county cricket?

Beasty

As an exiled Yorkshireman, I am all for this, provided home matches are not all played at Stormont.

Beasty

..a more considered response, ignoring my personal alligience.

Going into the County Championship would require Ireland to employ a full professional team. Many of the current players would probably not want this (if they did they would probably already be playing county cricket)

If Ireland played in the county championship, it would not be possible to prevent non-Irish qualified players playing for the team (as this would contravene EU law). This would probably result in an influx of current County Championship and other overseas players, including Kolpak players.

The net result is an Irish team fielding only perhaps 3 or 4 Irish qualified players, with a few more Irish qualified players playing for other county teams

Although this could result in additional exposure to 4 day cricket, it is unlikely Ireland will ever gain full test status. In the meantime the one-day team will probably suffer because imported players will and up playing all the non-international matches.

In summary I do think this would be a bad thing for Irish cricket

TrueDub

Beasty has explained it perfectly above. Also, you need to add in the fact that if we're seen as "just another county" by the other cricket-playing nations, we won't get the games we deserve & need. Perception is a wonderful thing.

khn10ur3bogzpa

TrueDub wrote: »

Beasty has explained it perfectly above. Also, you need to add in the fact that if we're seen as "just another county" by the other cricket-playing nations, we won't get the games we deserve & need. Perception is a wonderful thing.

Wait a second....you are praising beasty for his "perception" about what would happen. You are using this as backup to your argument against being "just another county" and yet he is in favour of it.

That is just contradictory!! I suspect some nationalistic pride is at work here

legend73

What I found interesting was the chairmen of the welsh cricket board calling for ECB central contracts to be torn up, that he wants welsh players back and playing domestic cricket in wales and that the grass roots of welsh cricket is being decimated by the ECB after they have worked very hard at promoting it in Wales. Probably sounds familiar to the Irish scenario and what will be an ongoing problem with England taking the best talent from a pool of players outside of England.

d'Oracle

Thalia Gifted Pumice wrote: »

Wait a second....you are praising beasty for his "perception" about what would happen. You are using this as backup to your argument against being "just another county" and yet he is in favour of it.

That is just contradictory!! I suspect some nationalistic pride is at work here

I think you over value County cricket.
Its not contradictory.

If we play county cricket, we are a county. First Class, not test.
It would simply crush any hope we have of Test status.

The financial gain arguement doesn't stand up either.
County cricket is not generating as much money as it used to. It will never generate as much money here.
How will Cricket Ireland pay a competitive rate?

It would result in more of the better players playing for English counties and would make our international unlimited overs team into a First Class team.

It would be a disaster.

TrueDub

Thalia Gifted Pumice wrote: »

Wait a second....you are praising beasty for his "perception" about what would happen. You are using this as backup to your argument against being "just another county" and yet he is in favour of it.

Reread post #9, where he says it would stop us getting test status. Also everyone's posts are their "perception", as we're talking about a hypothetical situation.

d'Oracle wrote: »

If we play county cricket, we are a county. First Class, not test.
It would simply crush any hope we have of Test status.

Exactly.

Cremated

Sorry to go OT but can anyone remember the foreign player Ireland were allowed to call up a couple of years back for the FP ( I think )

he was a bowler,

just when someone mentioned Ryder it brought it back,

interesting that Saqlain Mushtaq, and Afridi and Cronje also played for Ireland?, :eek:...

TrueDub

Cremated wrote: »

Sorry to go OT but can anyone remember the foreign player Ireland were allowed to call up a couple of years back for the FP ( I think )

he was a bowler,

just when someone mentioned Ryder it brought it back,

interesting that Saqlain Mushtaq, and Afridi and Cronje also played for Ireland?, :eek:...

We've had lots, as each team is allowed an overseas player in this competition. Off the top of my head:

Ravi Rampaul
Steve Waugh
Mark Waugh
Nantie Hayward
Saqlain
Shahid Afridi
Cronje
Fat-boy Ryder (pots & kettles, but I don't care )

khn10ur3bogzpa

TrueDub wrote: »

Reread post #9, where he says it would stop us getting test status. Also everyone's posts are their "perception", as we're talking about a hypothetical situation.

That does not mean we have to abandon logic

TrueDub

Thalia Gifted Pumice wrote: »

That does not mean we have to abandon logic

No, but it does mean you can't put forward your point of view, then dismiss someone else's point of view as "perception".

Cremated

TrueDub wrote: »

We've had lots, as each team is allowed an overseas player in this competition. Off the top of my head:

Ravi Rampaul
Steve Waugh
Mark Waugh
Nantie Hayward
Saqlain
Shahid Afridi
Cronje
Fat-boy Ryder (pots & kettles, but I don't care )

It was just that one player I was struggling to think of, pretty sure it was Rampaul,

is it just one foreign player allowed for non international games?, a season/year...

TrueDub

Cremated wrote: »

It was just that one player I was struggling to think of, pretty sure it was Rampaul,

is it just one foreign player allowed for non international games?, a season/year...

It's specifically for that competition, the Friends Provident Trophy. We naturally can't play anyone not qualified for Ireland in any other international games.

khn10ur3bogzpa

TrueDub wrote: »

No, but it does mean you can't put forward your point of view, then dismiss someone else's point of view as "perception".

Dont know once again what your point is here. I never described anything as perception....you did.

Poppo4

Would it not be possible to have two separate teams...Like everyone else...One county team that plays in the various championships/cups and then an international team that picks the best Irish players that are playing with either the Irish County team or with other counties?

Personally i think its a no brainer, if more irish players move to other counties it gives more chances for other players to come through. If there are foreign internationals playing with the county side they can pass on their experience and knowledge to the young players coming through. Improving their own standard of cricket, therefore improving the standard of the entire Irish squad. Improved standard of Irish cricket means more ranking points, hgher ranking equals ECB will have to consider us for test status.

Improvement in overall standard of Irish cricket would bring more corporate sponsorship, more investment by the ISC and then hopefully we can have a home for Irish cricket built at one of the many grounds around the country!