Imperialist Statue !?!?

Dáibhí

Why do we have a statue to this dude?


http://tinyurl.com/nz6wmc


Edit: It seems to be necessary to point out that this is a parody of the 'Nazi Statue !?!?' thread; I had thought the mistakes in punctuation alone would have made this clear. Alas.

dlofnep

Can anyone confirm if that above link is dodgy or not?

My name is URL

Stop vandalising monuments

link is safe btw

Because its a secret aerial for interacting with our nazi friends.

mike65

The Wellington momument is one of the outstanding featues of the Park and a lot better looking that that bleak piece of scaffolding where the Pope sat his arse.

nayorleck114

Our history is what it is. The monument (like it or not) is part of Irish History. Look at Lenister house, Our parliment, If ever there was a monument to Imperialism its Lenister house, take a look at the Dukes of Leinster.

The point I make, our history is our history. And the monuments, buildings, books, roads, are all part of it. England is covered in monuments to the Roman Empire. Its good to see you have taken the time to look at why the monument is there, but the answers you are looking for are in our history.

mike65

Loads of French stuff about the place that could be blown up too.

Dáibhí

mike65 wrote: »

The Wellington momument is one of the outstanding featues of the Park and a lot better looking that that bleak piece of scaffolding where the Pope sat his arse.

It is 'outstanding' alright. Most of the similarly 'outstanding' monuments in the Republic of Ireland ended up in places such as Sidney (http://www.publicartaroundtheworld.com/Queen_Victoria_Statue.html) or, more usually, removed by the now free native Irish.

Such as:

http://www.fantasyjackpalance.com/fjp/photos/kf/history/002/stephens-green.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GoughStatute,_Phoenix_Pk2.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dublin,_King_Billy1.jpg


An academic discussion of more 'outstanding' statues and their removal from the Irish landscape can be found here:


http://www.ggy.bris.ac.uk/personal/YvonneWhelan/HistoricalGeographyArtice.pdf

Dáibhí

nayorleck114 wrote: »

Our history is what it is. The monument (like it or not) is part of Irish History. Look at Lenister house, Our parliment, If ever there was a monument to Imperialism its Lenister house, take a look at the Dukes of Leinster.

The point I make, our history is our history. And the monuments, buildings, books, roads, are all part of it. England is covered in monuments to the Roman Empire. Its good to see you have taken the time to look at why the monument is there, but the answers you are looking for are in our history.

Thank you. That was really inspired. I note you are not over on the 'Nazi Statue !?!?' thread which inspired this. And how deep of you to note "our history is our history" - actually, I thought our history belonged to the Eskimos. Thanks, though.

It is, however, nice to know that "our history" happens to be erecting statues to British imperialism and embracing the myths of British nationalism. "Our" history indeed.

mike65

Look at it this way, the Polish kept the Auschwitz camp intact after the war as a reminder....

nayorleck114

Dáibhí wrote: »

It is 'outstanding' alright. Most of the similarly 'outstanding' monuments in the Republic of Ireland ended up in places such as Sidney (http://www.publicartaroundtheworld.com/Queen_Victoria_Statue.html) or, more usually, removed by the now free native Irish.

Such as:

http://www.fantasyjackpalance.com/fjp/photos/kf/history/002/stephens-green.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GoughStatute,_Phoenix_Pk2.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dublin,_King_Billy1.jpg


An academic discussion of more 'outstanding' statues and their removal from the Irish landscape can be found here:


http://www.ggy.bris.ac.uk/personal/YvonneWhelan/HistoricalGeographyArtice.pdf

Sure, we are destroy every trace of being occupied by the English. But the very fact that the monument is there has made you think, (and start this thread). Lobby your TD to get it removed. But the past is the past, you can't change it, you can destroy its symbols, but this serves little purpose. These symbols are a lesson to our history, of our opression by a heartless empire which we as a nation never accepted.

Dáibhí

nayorleck114 wrote: »

But the past is the past, you can't change it, you can destroy its symbols, but this serves little purpose. These symbols are a lesson to our history, of our opression by a heartless empire which we as a nation never accepted.

Would you please stop trotting out inane cliche after cliche, "the past is the past" being the latest one? If I had been talking about a statue which was merely from the past I would have given the example of the King George II statue on Stephen's Green which was removed many decades ago. My example, in contrast, was of a monument to a warlord of the British Empire which is still in existence in 2009. That is, today, the present.

Give one rational reason why such people should be glorified by a modern society, the vast majority of whom profess to be opposed to the murder and colonial escapades which Wellington personified so much of?

By this argument we should have monuments to Humphrey Gilbert, Oliver Cromwell and many others. We don't need additional reminders of these people: this discussion is in the English language.

dlofnep

mike65 wrote: »

Look at it this way, the Polish kept the Auschwitz camp intact after the war as a reminder....

I didn't see them building an Auschwitz statue in memorial of Nazi Germany.

There is a certain hypocrisy here, but it's obviously missing you.

DoireNod

mike65 wrote: »

Look at it this way, the Polish kept the Auschwitz camp intact after the war as a reminder....

Or a money spinner? Remnants of wars of the past always make good tourism in times of 'peace'.

Jesus Juice

Dáibhí wrote: »

Why do we have a statute to this dude?


http://tinyurl.com/nz6wmc


Edit: It seems to be necessary to point out that this is a parody of the 'Nazi Statue ?!?!' thread; I had thought the mistakes in punctuation alone would have made this clear. Alas.

Not another staunch republican on Boards:rolleyes:

dlofnep

Jesus Juice wrote: »

Not staunch republican on Boards:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

nayorleck114

Dáibhí wrote: »

By this argument we should have monuments to Humphrey Gilbert, Oliver Cromwell and many others. We don't need additional reminders of these people: this discussion is in the English language.

Ok, let be clear, I am not asking for any monument to any of the above. I 100% agree with you me don't need reminders (like statues of King Billy or Queen Victoria) I'm 100% Irish. cliche or not you can't fight the past. However the wellington Monument is the highest obelisk in Europe. Its there, get on with life. As strong as the empire was, it was not strong enough to fight the Irish. The monument is there, what do you propose we do with it?

Kev_ps3

Dáibhí wrote: »

Why do we have a statue to this dude?


http://tinyurl.com/nz6wmc


Edit: It seems to be necessary to point out that this is a parody of the 'Nazi Statue !?!?' thread; I had thought the mistakes in punctuation alone would have made this clear. Alas.

Its a joke. Its the same if a city in Isreal had a statue to Hitler or another leading Nazi. Only in this country run by west-brits.

gurramok

nayorleck114 wrote: »

Ok, let be clear, I am not asking for any monument to any of the above. I 100% agree with you me don't need reminders (like statues of King Billy or Queen Victoria) I'm 100% Irish. cliche or not you can't fight the past. However the wellington Monument is the highest obelisk in Europe. Its there, get on with life. As strong as the empire was, it was not strong enough to fight the Irish. The monument is there, what do you propose we do with it?

Rename it the Pearse monument

Think that monument only survived was because Wellington was born in Dublin and is of 'Anglo-Irish' stock.

j1smithy

Dáibhí wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dublin,_King_Billy1.jpg

Whatever about the statues, they should never have gotten rid of the trams!

eddyc

So your offended then yeah? Why should anybody else care?

Whosbetter?

j1smithy wrote: »

Whatever about the statues, they should never have gotten rid of the trams!

They're back now!

Luas anyone?

stevedublin

the IRA would have some fun blowing up the Wellington monument!

Dáibhí

Dáibhí wrote: »

It is, however, nice to know that "our history" happens to be erecting statues to British imperialism and embracing the myths of British nationalism. "Our" history indeed.

Eh...yeah it is our history. Like it or lump it the history of Britain and Ireland is intertwined. That monument is from another time. By the by the battle of Waterloo which that monument commemorates was not a battle of British Imperialism. It was a united European effort to curb French domination over Europe.

In that case the analogy with the Nazi's is quite wrong in that this statue would more suitably fit within the analogy as a statue commemorating the Allied Forces or one of the Generals such as Montgomery, Eisenhower, Patton etc.

Guy:Incognito

dlofnep wrote: »

I didn't see them building an Auschwitz statue in memorial of Nazi Germany.

There is a certain hypocrisy here, but it's obviously missing you.

Are we building memorials to British rule now or in the recent past?

We are talking about existing monuments, theres a bit of a difference.


We could always throw a few up to celebrate a few of our own murderers I suppose.......

mike65

I'm waiting for the day that someone suggests a statue for Charles J Haughey....

Ponster

Jesus Juice wrote: »

Not another staunch republican on Boards:rolleyes:

I know. What's worse is that this one seems to actually be able to get their point across without imploding when they realise that everyone doesn't agree with them.

Mentioning "nazi" in the OP though makes this a joke thread.

I'd suggest to that if Dáibhí is looking for a serious debate then they request the thread be moved to the History or Humanities forum.

nayorleck114

mike65 wrote: »

I'm waiting for the day that someone suggests a statue for Charles J Haughey....

Bertie wanted his Bertie Bowl, I had the Fianna Fail B--l Sh**, But I think its sad we don't have a new national stadium. It would have been a mounment to Bertie, but also would have hosted many sports events. Anyway we have Croagh park is I suggest we should make a national Monument.

mikemac

Where are you getting the Nazi comment from OP?
What possible relevance does it have to the monument?

Even if Arthur Wellesley was Anglo-Irish, he was still an Irishman and certainly achieved a lot.
So don't knock the man unless you've surpassed him

gurramok

Stekelly wrote: »

We could always throw a few up to celebrate a few of our own murderers I suppose.......

Which ones, Joe O'Reilly perhaps?

An Fear Aniar

Dáibhí wrote: »

It is 'outstanding' alright. Most of the similarly 'outstanding' monuments in the Republic of Ireland ended up in places such as Sidney (http://www.publicartaroundtheworld.com/Queen_Victoria_Statue.html) or, more usually, removed by the now free native Irish.

I can't believe they had a statue of Victoria outside Dáil Éireann until 1947, wow! How did it end up in Daingean? Was that Kerry or Offally?

.

Guy:Incognito

gurramok wrote: »

Which ones, Joe O'Reilly perhaps?

Nah, I was thinking the celebrated ones, IRA members and such.

gurramok

Stekelly wrote: »

Nah, I was thinking the celebrated ones, IRA members and such.

Which ones, the Old IRA or the newer IRA?

Guy:Incognito

gurramok wrote: »

Which ones, the Old IRA or the newer IRA?

Whichever ones their supporters choose I suppose.

Maybe keep it nice and up to date with a big bronze Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness across the road and facing Leinster house?:)


Oops, I just mixed up two unconnected organisations, didnt I?

Acacia

Why tear it down? It's not like it has the Union Jack flying from it. Just let it go... no point hanging on to pointless hatred.

Wibbs

Oh FFS. What sort of person would seek to remove all vestiges of this nations history that didn't agree with their personal hagiographic notions of Ireland of the past. On both sides. FWIW Wellington did much for Dublin in particular and was more understanding and supportive of Catholic rights and Ireland as an independent nation than is often given credit and unusual in his social group. For a time at least. He was fearful of revolution anywhere like most of his class at the time, but he had some understanding of it and his orders he drafted with respect to his soldiers conduct in Catholic lands they may pass through was remarkably easy going and understanding for his time and class.

Regardless it's a structure well known to People for many many years. It has lost it's impact as an imperial monument for most and it's historical impact is barely noticed. And that's a good thing. Swords become ploughshares when they cease to be swords in the common mind.

Tear it down? Moronic. Tear down the georgian houses while you're at it. Tear down government buildings. Tear down the basis of our law. Tear down many more things. Or I dunno, get over it. Jesus.

El Che

Jesus Juice wrote: »

Not another staunch republican on Boards:rolleyes:

Yes, non-Republicans must be a dying breed. Ah sure, I can wish :rolleyes: