Imperialist Statue !?!?

Dáibhí · 11-07-2009 8:57pm #1

Why do we have a statue to this dude?

http://tinyurl.com/nz6wmc

Edit: It seems to be necessary to point out that this is a parody of the 'Nazi Statue !?!?' thread; I had thought the mistakes in punctuation alone would have made this clear. Alas.

dlofnep · 11-07-2009 8:59pm

Can anyone confirm if that above link is dodgy or not?

My name is URL · 11-07-2009 9:00pm

Stop vandalising monuments

link is safe btw

11-07-2009 9:03pm

Because its a secret aerial for interacting with our nazi friends.

mike65 · 11-07-2009 9:08pm

The Wellington momument is one of the outstanding featues of the Park and a lot better looking that that bleak piece of scaffolding where the Pope sat his arse.

nayorleck114 · 11-07-2009 9:14pm

Our history is what it is. The monument (like it or not) is part of Irish History. Look at Lenister house, Our parliment, If ever there was a monument to Imperialism its Lenister house, take a look at the Dukes of Leinster.

The point I make, our history is our history. And the monuments, buildings, books, roads, are all part of it. England is covered in monuments to the Roman Empire. Its good to see you have taken the time to look at why the monument is there, but the answers you are looking for are in our history.

mike65 · 11-07-2009 9:20pm

Loads of French stuff about the place that could be blown up too.

Dáibhí · 11-07-2009 9:26pm

mike65 wrote: »

The Wellington momument is one of the outstanding featues of the Park and a lot better looking that that bleak piece of scaffolding where the Pope sat his arse.

It is 'outstanding' alright. Most of the similarly 'outstanding' monuments in the Republic of Ireland ended up in places such as Sidney (http://www.publicartaroundtheworld.com/Queen_Victoria_Statue.html) or, more usually, removed by the now free native Irish.

Such as:

http://www.fantasyjackpalance.com/fjp/photos/kf/history/002/stephens-green.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GoughStatute,_Phoenix_Pk2.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dublin,_King_Billy1.jpg

An academic discussion of more 'outstanding' statues and their removal from the Irish landscape can be found here:

http://www.ggy.bris.ac.uk/personal/YvonneWhelan/HistoricalGeographyArtice.pdf

Dáibhí · 11-07-2009 9:30pm

nayorleck114 wrote: »

Our history is what it is. The monument (like it or not) is part of Irish History. Look at Lenister house, Our parliment, If ever there was a monument to Imperialism its Lenister house, take a look at the Dukes of Leinster.

The point I make, our history is our history. And the monuments, buildings, books, roads, are all part of it. England is covered in monuments to the Roman Empire. Its good to see you have taken the time to look at why the monument is there, but the answers you are looking for are in our history.

Thank you. That was really inspired. I note you are not over on the 'Nazi Statue !?!?' thread which inspired this. And how deep of you to note "our history is our history" - actually, I thought our history belonged to the Eskimos. Thanks, though.

It is, however, nice to know that "our history" happens to be erecting statues to British imperialism and embracing the myths of British nationalism. "Our" history indeed.

mike65 · 11-07-2009 9:34pm

Look at it this way, the Polish kept the Auschwitz camp intact after the war as a reminder....

nayorleck114 · 11-07-2009 9:36pm

Dáibhí wrote: »

It is 'outstanding' alright. Most of the similarly 'outstanding' monuments in the Republic of Ireland ended up in places such as Sidney (http://www.publicartaroundtheworld.com/Queen_Victoria_Statue.html) or, more usually, removed by the now free native Irish.

Such as:

http://www.fantasyjackpalance.com/fjp/photos/kf/history/002/stephens-green.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GoughStatute,_Phoenix_Pk2.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dublin,_King_Billy1.jpg

An academic discussion of more 'outstanding' statues and their removal from the Irish landscape can be found here:

http://www.ggy.bris.ac.uk/personal/YvonneWhelan/HistoricalGeographyArtice.pdf

Sure, we are destroy every trace of being occupied by the English. But the very fact that the monument is there has made you think, (and start this thread). Lobby your TD to get it removed. But the past is the past, you can't change it, you can destroy its symbols, but this serves little purpose. These symbols are a lesson to our history, of our opression by a heartless empire which we as a nation never accepted.

Dáibhí · 11-07-2009 9:59pm

nayorleck114 wrote: »

But the past is the past, you can't change it, you can destroy its symbols, but this serves little purpose. These symbols are a lesson to our history, of our opression by a heartless empire which we as a nation never accepted.

Would you please stop trotting out inane cliche after cliche, "the past is the past" being the latest one? If I had been talking about a statue which was merely from the past I would have given the example of the King George II statue on Stephen's Green which was removed many decades ago. My example, in contrast, was of a monument to a warlord of the British Empire which is still in existence in 2009. That is, today, the present.

Give one rational reason why such people should be glorified by a modern society, the vast majority of whom profess to be opposed to the murder and colonial escapades which Wellington personified so much of?

By this argument we should have monuments to Humphrey Gilbert, Oliver Cromwell and many others. We don't need additional reminders of these people: this discussion is in the English language.

dlofnep · 11-07-2009 10:02pm

mike65 wrote: »

Look at it this way, the Polish kept the Auschwitz camp intact after the war as a reminder....

I didn't see them building an Auschwitz statue in memorial of Nazi Germany.

There is a certain hypocrisy here, but it's obviously missing you.

DoireNod · 11-07-2009 10:04pm

mike65 wrote: »

Look at it this way, the Polish kept the Auschwitz camp intact after the war as a reminder....

Or a money spinner? Remnants of wars of the past always make good tourism in times of 'peace'.

Jesus Juice · 11-07-2009 10:05pm

Dáibhí wrote: »

Why do we have a statute to this dude?

http://tinyurl.com/nz6wmc

Edit: It seems to be necessary to point out that this is a parody of the 'Nazi Statue ?!?!' thread; I had thought the mistakes in punctuation alone would have made this clear. Alas.

Not another staunch republican on Boards:rolleyes:

dlofnep · 11-07-2009 10:06pm

Jesus Juice wrote: »

Not staunch republican on Boards:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

nayorleck114 · 11-07-2009 10:22pm

Dáibhí wrote: »

By this argument we should have monuments to Humphrey Gilbert, Oliver Cromwell and many others. We don't need additional reminders of these people: this discussion is in the English language.

Ok, let be clear, I am not asking for any monument to any of the above. I 100% agree with you me don't need reminders (like statues of King Billy or Queen Victoria) I'm 100% Irish. cliche or not you can't fight the past. However the wellington Monument is the highest obelisk in Europe. Its there, get on with life. As strong as the empire was, it was not strong enough to fight the Irish. The monument is there, what do you propose we do with it?

Kev_ps3 · 11-07-2009 10:32pm

Dáibhí wrote: »

Why do we have a statue to this dude?

http://tinyurl.com/nz6wmc

Edit: It seems to be necessary to point out that this is a parody of the 'Nazi Statue !?!?' thread; I had thought the mistakes in punctuation alone would have made this clear. Alas.

Its a joke. Its the same if a city in Isreal had a statue to Hitler or another leading Nazi. Only in this country run by west-brits.

gurramok · 11-07-2009 10:32pm

nayorleck114 wrote: »

Ok, let be clear, I am not asking for any monument to any of the above. I 100% agree with you me don't need reminders (like statues of King Billy or Queen Victoria) I'm 100% Irish. cliche or not you can't fight the past. However the wellington Monument is the highest obelisk in Europe. Its there, get on with life. As strong as the empire was, it was not strong enough to fight the Irish. The monument is there, what do you propose we do with it?

Rename it the Pearse monument

Think that monument only survived was because Wellington was born in Dublin and is of 'Anglo-Irish' stock.

j1smithy · 11-07-2009 10:39pm

Dáibhí wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dublin,_King_Billy1.jpg

Whatever about the statues, they should never have gotten rid of the trams!

eddyc · 11-07-2009 10:41pm

So your offended then yeah? Why should anybody else care?

Whosbetter? · 11-07-2009 10:42pm

j1smithy wrote: »

Whatever about the statues, they should never have gotten rid of the trams!

They're back now!

Luas anyone?

stevedublin · 11-07-2009 11:19pm

the IRA would have some fun blowing up the Wellington monument!

11-07-2009 11:22pm

Dáibhí wrote: »

It is, however, nice to know that "our history" happens to be erecting statues to British imperialism and embracing the myths of British nationalism. "Our" history indeed.

Eh...yeah it is our history. Like it or lump it the history of Britain and Ireland is intertwined. That monument is from another time. By the by the battle of Waterloo which that monument commemorates was not a battle of British Imperialism. It was a united European effort to curb French domination over Europe.

In that case the analogy with the Nazi's is quite wrong in that this statue would more suitably fit within the analogy as a statue commemorating the Allied Forces or one of the Generals such as Montgomery, Eisenhower, Patton etc.

Guy:Incognito · 11-07-2009 11:45pm

dlofnep wrote: »

I didn't see them building an Auschwitz statue in memorial of Nazi Germany.

There is a certain hypocrisy here, but it's obviously missing you.

Are we building memorials to British rule now or in the recent past?

We are talking about existing monuments, theres a bit of a difference.

We could always throw a few up to celebrate a few of our own murderers I suppose.......

mike65 · 11-07-2009 11:49pm

I'm waiting for the day that someone suggests a statue for Charles J Haughey....

Ponster · 11-07-2009 11:52pm

Jesus Juice wrote: »

Not another staunch republican on Boards:rolleyes:

I know. What's worse is that this one seems to actually be able to get their point across without imploding when they realise that everyone doesn't agree with them.

Mentioning "nazi" in the OP though makes this a joke thread.

I'd suggest to that if Dáibhí is looking for a serious debate then they request the thread be moved to the History or Humanities forum.

nayorleck114 · 11-07-2009 11:53pm

mike65 wrote: »

I'm waiting for the day that someone suggests a statue for Charles J Haughey....

Bertie wanted his Bertie Bowl, I had the Fianna Fail B--l Sh**, But I think its sad we don't have a new national stadium. It would have been a mounment to Bertie, but also would have hosted many sports events. Anyway we have Croagh park is I suggest we should make a national Monument.

mikemac · 11-07-2009 11:56pm

Where are you getting the Nazi comment from OP?
What possible relevance does it have to the monument?

Even if Arthur Wellesley was Anglo-Irish, he was still an Irishman and certainly achieved a lot.
So don't knock the man unless you've surpassed him

gurramok · 12-07-2009 12:00am

Stekelly wrote: »

We could always throw a few up to celebrate a few of our own murderers I suppose.......

Which ones, Joe O'Reilly perhaps?

An Fear Aniar · 12-07-2009 12:00am

Dáibhí wrote: »

It is 'outstanding' alright. Most of the similarly 'outstanding' monuments in the Republic of Ireland ended up in places such as Sidney (http://www.publicartaroundtheworld.com/Queen_Victoria_Statue.html) or, more usually, removed by the now free native Irish.

I can't believe they had a statue of Victoria outside Dáil Éireann until 1947, wow! How did it end up in Daingean? Was that Kerry or Offally?

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Imperialist Statue !?!?

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