Ossian

ocianain

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Life-Letters-James-Macpherson-Containing/dp/1421207125/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247332307&sr=1-5

With all the erudite people that frequent this board I was wondering if anyone could bring me up to speed on how MacPherson is regarded today. I read the above cited book and found it fascinating, would make a wonderful Merchant/Ivory production! The author addresses the controversies surrounding MacPhersons work and seems to ably defend him. To my eye MacPherson seemed to have anticipated Hyde and Gregory, the whole Irish Literary Revival, by a century or so. He seems to be dismissed as a forger in a tautological fashion, to wit, the Scots had no literature, this is literature, ergo it's a forgery. Would appreciate any insights.

WinstonSmith

good question. macpherson today is regarded i think generally with cynicism among academics. there is no questioning that he was an influence on the irish lit revival: hyde, gregory, even yeats; and this aspect is certainly to be commended, whether original or not. it is remembered however that these works were forgeries and are viewed as such on their own. when in relation to the ILR they are taken with a pinch of salt as it were.

ocianain

Saunders argues quite convincingly in the cited work that the poems weren't forgeries (that is, intentional misrepresentation), he argues that MacPherson had no established "rules of order" as it were to follow. He basically went where no man had gone before, he created literary anthropology, it's therefore no surprise he made Gauling errors. He also cites MacPhersons poetry as proof he didn't forge the Ossian tales, it was at best mundane, while the Ossian tales are of a high order of quality. I bought the books to read after reading Saunders defense of MacPherson, I have to agree. They are pretty good, I wonder if he was put down because, the Establihment feared it could lead to an uprise in Scottish nationalism. Some of Bailey Saunders quotes of MacPherson letters are quite strident, the Irish "stealing" Finn and all that.

WinstonSmith

granted, there is secondary criticism that is willing to both support and criticise MacPherson. Perhaps the best I could do would be to give names of some books that are critical of him and let you make up your own mind. I can understand how people could slip onto either side of the fence, but for my part I think there are too many similarities between such items as the glenmasan ms and macPherson's work. Some books include:
'Glenmasan manuscript' by McKinnon;
'Forger's Shadow' by Groom
etc...

TedB

Sounds interesting. This will go on my (continually) expanding reading list.

ocianain

WinstonSmith wrote: »

granted, there is secondary criticism that is willing to both support and criticise MacPherson. Perhaps the best I could do would be to give names of some books that are critical of him and let you make up your own mind. I can understand how people could slip onto either side of the fence, but for my part I think there are too many similarities between such items as the glenmasan ms and macPherson's work. Some books include:
'Glenmasan manuscript' by McKinnon;
'Forger's Shadow' by Groom
etc...

Thank you! I'll be reading them!

Manach

He is a historically relevant figure, in that Napoleon stated he was influenced by his work.

ocianain

Manach wrote: »

He is a historically relevant figure, in that Napoleon stated he was influenced by his work.

Jefferson read MacPhersons Ossian every night before bed and he (MacP) is also credited with influencing Goethe!

turgon

I havent read much in terms of the irish mythic revival, only Lady Gregorys Irish Mythology which is a fine sized collection. While the tales are interesting, and I would take a passive enough interest in mythology literature, Im not that big into it. Saying that, if anyone knew of any good introductions to the subject Id read it.

ocianain

turgon wrote: »

I havent read much in terms of the irish mythic revival, only Lady Gregorys Irish Mythology which is a fine sized collection. While the tales are interesting, and I would take a passive enough interest in mythology literature, Im not that big into it. Saying that, if anyone knew of any good introductions to the subject Id read it.

Can't go wrong with the Lady, for a good read on the Irish Literary Revival see, Ulick O'Connor's, All the Olympians. Great book.

turgon

Cheers for that!!

Does Gregory have any other texts other than Gods and Fighting Men and Cuchulain of Muirtheme? Ive those two in a compilation.

Did you read The Tain? Its published in Penguin Classics asfaik.

Then theres a different translation: http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/9780192803733/The-Tain

Any ideas?

ocianain

I read The Tain, interestingly enough I read a fantastic book called, Cracker Culture: Celtic Was of the Old South by McWhiney. The author traces the origins of Southern American culture to Irish, Scot and Welsh immigrants. Seems they also brought their cattle russlin ways (among other things) with them to the new world and took it west! I'm just restarting a re-read of various mthologies, I'm going to read Heany's Tain, alread read MacPherson's Ossian, and the Mabinogi then t's on to the continent.

turgon

Id like to read some Homer myself. And the norse mythology then

ocianain

Interesting you should say that, I read a fantastic book called, The Baltic Origins of Homer's Epic Tales by, Felice Vinci. The author argues that Homer's epics take place in the Baltic, in particular the Odyssey, which does not fit in the Med, fits perfectly in the Baltic, islands are there, the geography, down to the whirlpool, fits.

WinstonSmith

ocianain wrote: »

I read The Tain, interestingly enough I read a fantastic book called, Cracker Culture: Celtic Was of the Old South by McWhiney. The author traces the origins of Southern American culture to Irish, Scot and Welsh immigrants. Seems they also brought their cattle russlin ways (among other things) with them to the new world and took it west! I'm just restarting a re-read of various mthologies, I'm going to read Heany's Tain, alread read MacPherson's Ossian, and the Mabinogi then t's on to the continent.

Heaney doesn't have a translation of the Tain. The most notable Irish translations are Kinsella's and, more recently, and very highly acclaimed, Ciaran Carson's/

ocianain

WinstonSmith wrote: »

Heaney doesn't have a translation of the Tain. The most notable Irish translations are Kinsella's and, more recently, and very highly acclaimed, Ciaran Carson's/

You are correct! I rushed my writing and mangled the post, I should of said,

"I read the Tain. I also read a fantastic book called, Cracker Culture: Celtic Was of the Old South by McWhiney. The author traces the origins of Southern American culture to Irish, Scot and Welsh immigrants. Seems they also brought their cattle russlin ways (among other things) with them to the new world and took it west! I'm just restarting a re-read of various mythologies, I'm going to read Heany's Beowulf, I already read MacPherson's Ossian, and the Mabinogi (Kenneth Morris's, Fates of the Princess of Dyved and The Book of Three Dragons) then it's on to the continent.