What happened the promising Laois minors?

MementoMori

Pretty good article on what happened with the promising Laois minor teams.

Some fairly shocking stuff in this. A shame for the game really as things woud have been better off for everyone if Laois had developed into a serious force in Leinster.

There's also a couple of comments at the link, which seem to back up the article.

Laois kids' futures all in the past

They never built on their massive underage success and now there are too many egos and not enough honest effort to haul them to the top
Ewan MacKenna

Whitewash: Laois's 15-point defeat against Kildare in the Leinster SFC semi-final was one in a series of heavy losses they have suffered this year Back in 2005, as Laois made their way to Croke Park for an All Ireland quarter-final against Armagh, the first enemy outpost they reached was Athy. There was no hiding the fact either. The south Kildare town was draped with election-style posters, each one reading "Ulster Says No To The Queen's County". They were the work of one local man who'd spent dawn on a rickety stepladder but they encapsulated the sentiments of many in Kildare. There was a jealousy and bitterness that came from not just how well their rivals are doing, but how successful they could be.

Just four years on and Laois should be in a stronger position still, yet all that's left is the wreckage from last Saturday's Leinster semi-final against Kildare and there is very little to salvage from that. As good as their one provincial title and handful of years challenging as a top-eight team were, this is an underage superpower now acting like an irritating rogue state. Since 1996 they have won three All Ireland minor titles. That's more than Dublin, Galway, Mayo, Cork, Kerry and Armagh combined and only Tyrone have achieved more. They've won six Leinster minor titles in that same period too and have won three provincial under-21 titles since 1998.

Yet 40 minutes into last Saturday's clash with Kildare, Laois fans were deserting O'Connor Park and with all that has gone on, the side are in danger of being known as the Queens' County.

It's not a new phenomenon either. In fact it's the fourth time Laois have been embarrassed this year. Bernard Flynn may have talked about the ferocity of a training session he witnessed in the build-up to the game but that masked a side packed with too many egos and that had already been blitzed by Kildare, Monaghan and Cork in the league by an average of 12 points.

The problem is rooted in the past and it's developed into a culture of arrogance that's gone on too long to change. Mick O'Dwyer recently said of the side in this confession box, "He [Fergal Byron] was speaking from his heart because he gave me a wonderful commitment while I was there. Others couldn't say that. There was marvellous material in Laois but they were never as willing to give the same commitment as I got in Kildare. They didn't have the commitment or the same drive." But others there during O'Dwyer's four-year stint put that down as an understatement.

"Micko didn't care after a while because there was nothing he could do about what was going on," says a source familiar with what went on at the time. "But in Kildare guys would run up mountains for that man just because he said so. In Laois they needed explanations. Now that wasn't all of them but there were boys there who would fake injury during laps just to get out of them. All the talent in the world and most of it wasted in that place."

During O'Dwyer's final year, the most successful manager of them all was questioned by a side with just a single provincial title to their name. They ridiculed his methods, demanded change and modernisation and got the beating of a lifetime against Dublin. They didn't learn from that either though because O'Dwyer was far from the only manager to suffer at their hands. When Liam Kearns came to the county in 2007, it was to move forward a career that had seen him take Limerick to the brink of a Munster title. But there was a stage when he couldn't even find a player able to captain Laois. Ross Munnelly was said to be too selfish on the ball, Joe Higgins and Tom Kelly didn't show up for the league and after that there was a void when it came to finding a leader.

And Kearns faced far more startling problems than finding a recipient for an armband. Two players in the side had tried to move towards professionalism, refusing to play for Laois until they were sponsored to do so. What had once been ripe and vibrant was rotten to the core. A member of the Laois set-up at the time who wishes to remain nameless takes it further.

"They were put on a pedestal in Laois after winning those minor titles. If you go in to a pub there are pictures on the wall, there's someone there to buy them a pint and remind them of when they won underage All Irelands. You get that respect for winning senior titles in other counties. And they are making the same mistakes. Before it was Beano and Munnelly, now it's Donie Kingston and Tierney who are elevated too high. Some young guys go into the dressing room and think they rule it. The older guys never put them in their place. No leadership. It's gone too far in Laois and there's no going back. Mentally it's frightening just how weak they are."

Even current manager Seán Dempsey has experienced it and he's only in his first year. A former under-21 manager who dropped Donie Brennan before a 2006 All Ireland semi-final, he was forced to do it again this season officially for alcohol-related breaches of discipline but unofficially for a lack of effort in training. Yet within days, Brennan's club manager Nicky McGrath wrote to a local paper. "If this is correct then I would suggest that at least 50 per cent of the panel should have been dropped," he said.

It's not a coincidence that the only times Laois managed to act as a normal group of footballers were in '03 and '05, the year they captured Leinster and the year they peaked. Since then things have been out of control.

Late last year the players were all given gym membership, as was the case in Kildare, but last Saturday it was clear which group had been pushing themselves to the limit eight months ago. On top of that, three nights training each week doesn't cover for three nights socialising in the same week and while such accusations are aimed at limited numbers on the panel, last Saturday also showed that you can't cover for a colleague at the highest level.

In truth Dempsey neither commanded nor demanded respect from this side but if they weren't willing to respect O'Dwyer, then who will they respect? And when Dempsey realises he'd be better off doing pretty much anything else, who will want to take over such a group? After all, you can't force heart and dedication on a team and it appears they aren't going to force it upon themselves.

Not until Friday did the panel get back into training after their mauling six days previous. In the intervening period many had seen their pictures on the walls and glimpsed back at better days. They might have realised then that their future is buried deeply in the past.

http://www.tribune.ie/sport/article/2009/jul/05/laois-kids-futures-all-in-the-past/

BroomBurner

Interesting article above. The fact that they didn't get back in to training (after their defeat) straight away speaks volumes.

Sorry to bring it slightly off topic, but I hope the man who required medical attention at Saturday's game is ok and well.

LeoB

This is a really good article. I am sure most of Ireland look and wonder where all these lads have gone.

In fairness Its not only happening in Laois tho'. But I do think until some officer stands up and calls a spade a spade at a county convention things wont change. Some Laois players need to be dropped off county panel and never let play for the county again. There are lads who would love to play for the county and would go that extra bit so drop the lads who dont. It might mean going backwards for a season or two but when it sinks in the right players will come out on top.

blackbelt

I think the approach has always been wrong on both sides.What you have here is a panel made up of players that are un-motivated and careless and a management setup that can't bring this team on until they have the bottle to drop certain players and if such a move was to occur,you could bet that club reps and delegates would kick up a stink at county board convention.

I know an insider that was part of the backroom team.He was also trying to get on the senior team under Micko and had some good experience playing senior with Arles-Killeen and Sigerson football with DIT.He basically said that when Micko left,so did his chances to get on the senior team.This same person also said that Laois had a psychologist in the dressing room psyching up the players to beat Dublin by 10 points in the Leinster semi-final in 2006.What happened was the opposite with Dublin hammering Laois 3-17 to 0-12.

It looks like Laois won't be anywhere near the level they should be at for another few years.After reading all these stories,nobody would want to jump at the chance to manage Laois.

grenache

Story of Laois Minors = Story of Limerick U-21s.

Both got success at a relatively young age, both allowed it to go to their heads and forget how they had won silverware in the first place - by hard work, commitment and lots of humility.

MementoMori

blackbelt wrote: »

I know an insider that was part of the backroom team.He was also trying to get on the senior team under Micko and had some good experience playing senior with Arles-Killeen and Sigerson football with DIT.He basically said that when Micko left,so did his chances to get on the senior team.7 to 0-12.

It looks like Laois won't be anywhere near the level they should be at for another few years.After reading all these stories,nobody would want to jump at the chance to manage Laois.

If you can, any chance you could explain this a bit more - why did his chance end when Micko left?
Terrible situation altogether.

TheWifeBeater

Great article. This reminds me of galway minors in hurling. It's easier said than done to try and convert minor success to senior success a lot of the time minors never make the step up due to many reasons (drink,smoking or laziness). Perhaps a new approach or campaign by the GAA could resolve this problem or maybe it's just the way things will allways be in the gaa.

premierstone

grenache wrote: »

Story of Laois Minors = Story of Limerick U-21s.

Both got success at a relatively young age, both allowed it to go to their heads and forget how they had won silverware in the first place - by hard work, commitment and lots of humility.

Had just read the article and was about the post this, its actually a bit scary how similar this is, and I think the fact that the respective counties were relatively starved of success they were more inclined to put these guys on a pedestal before they had ever done anything at senior level.

K-9

premierstone wrote: »

Had just read the article and was about the post this, its actually a bit scary how similar this is, and I think the fact that the respective counties were relatively starved of success they were more inclined to put these guys on a pedestal before they had ever done anything at senior level.

The contrast between them and Tyrone who would have been their main rivals over the decade is telling. Maybe the competition for places wasn't there.

Frankie Lee

There is also rumours circulating about Donie Kingston at the moment also about a falling out with the set up in Laois. Word is he could be getting a transfer to Athy.

Personally I'm very sceptical but apparently his father is a Kildare man.

blackbelt

MementoMori wrote: »

If you can, any chance you could explain this a bit more - why did his chance end when Micko left?
Terrible situation altogether.

He said that he was being promised further trials under Micko but when Micko left and Kearns took over,those promises were broken and I think Kearns never rated him and had his own mentality towards the running of the county panel.

Thats just what he said and he never made a big deal of it.He's disillusioned with his own county and got his 15 seconds of fame on tv when having a run in with some of the Offaly team 2 years ago.

theram

blackbelt wrote: »

He said that he was being promised further trials under Micko but when Micko left and Kearns took over,those promises were broken and I think Kearns never rated him and had his own mentality towards the running of the county panel.

Thats just what he said and he never made a big deal of it.He's disillusioned with his own county and got his 15 seconds of fame on tv when having a run in with some of the Offaly team 2 years ago.

Not hard figure out who you're talkin bout there...

blackbelt

theram wrote: »

Not hard figure out who you're talkin bout there...

No.:D:D

theram

blackbelt wrote: »

No.:D:D

Kinda takes away from the impact of your original post then don't you think?

kaimera

It really is sickening to read because it's true.

All the 'potential' and just cba. May as well **** right off to Aus tbh

spongeman

Excellent article.

Being from Wicklow its hard to believe that anybody would question Micko, look what he has done with a team ranked only above London.

Look at Kildare, they are very appreciative of what he has done and there will be a huge roar for him from both sets of fans in Portlaoise.

I remember being out and coming home and putting on the score of Kildare/Laois, I thought it was some kind of joke.

Its a mighty fall.

theram

kaimera wrote: »

It really is sickening to read because it's true.

All the 'potential' and just cba. May as well **** right off to Aus tbh

You'll have to explain that last line to me there?

CyberDave

Ger Loughnane made an interesting point in an article he wrote in one of the papers a few weeks back after the Galway / Kilkenny Leinster Semi-Final. He said when counties that haven't traditionally had success at underage level do become successful (very much like the above article states), too much is made out of their success. In Kilkenny or Kerry, a minor or U21 All-Ireland means nothing. To be recognised as a success in either county, you have to win a senior. Galway hurling, Limerick hurling and Laois football fall into this bracket. There is no obvious solution though. Maybe the successful underage players make it on to the senior teams to quickly? If you take the example of Richie Hogan in Kilkenny. Brilliant in last years All-Ireland U21 final and 1-10 in the league final against Kilkenny, despite his undoubted talent, he still he has to battle for his place on the Kilkenny team.

partyguinness

I agree with that Ger Longhnane point.

When counties who traditionally had no success suddenly get some success (rememeber it was just minor/U 21), it goes to their heads and they basically get too big for their shoes.

I was in college in 1996/97 with a lad from Laois and he said that the players (his brother had been on one the teams) had turned into complete arseholes after winning..late for training, disrespecting managers etc...and management took it all and bent over backwards to lick their asses.

I remember another guy who was on 1997 Clare minor team and came to Cork. He thought he was the greatest thing since slice and would boast about his victories.

Now this was Cork not Clare (another county with little success) he was in...Cork win All Irelands every year and winning a minor is nothing to shout about..Cork people are well used to it and winning is expected..in fact there were All Ireland winners everywhere.

He might have impressed the lads/birds back home in Ennis but it certainly cut no ice in Cork and he was a nobody...(incidently he cldnt get anywhere near the college team. despite his 'massive' credentials...:rolleyes:)