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What's your favourite thing about medicine?

  • 11-07-2009 1:17am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,813 ✭✭✭


    I'm interested in different people's opinions on this. I was discussing it with some friends the other day (medical and nursing students).

    I like the practical aspects and I suppose the idealistic part of me likes the idealistic side of it. Some were quite philosophical about what their favourite things might be. One genuinely hadn't thought about it.

    Just curious really.


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    Great idea for a thread. If it's ok with you, we can also open the thread up to all healthcare workers, not just medics.

    I like reassuring people there's nothing wrong with them.

    I like the fact that there's a real hardworking ethos in medicine, that's often found across the team. I like it when I need to stay back late after a long shift and the intern and SHO stay back to help out too.

    I like how we try to make decisions based on good data.

    I like how the vast majority of our patients trust us.

    I like thinking about disease at the population level. In fact, that's my fave part of medicine.

    I sometimes like to just pick up a baby and feed them when it's quiet. Bit of normality amongst the madness.

    I like it in paeds that kids are so resilient. You ca have them on back to back nebulisers and IV mag sulphate for their asthma, and a day or 2 later you're bantering with them in the ward. Or you lash a fluid bolus into a septic baby and they look better really quickly.

    I love getting a difficult intubation.

    It's controversial, but I like how mainstream healthcare people are the ones who genuinely have th best interest of the patients at heart.

    I love working in the public systems, for all their faults.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,813 ✭✭✭PhysiologyRocks


    tallaght01 wrote: »
    If it's ok with you, we can also open the thread up to all healthcare workers, not just medics.

    Definitely! I meant it for everyone but on re-reading my post that wasn't so clear.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 109 ✭✭me2gud4u


    I love how everyone in the class is so hard-working and come exam time there is great camaraderie, note sharing, exams being passed down from one year to the next,generally great support and study groups. Everyone wants to do well so everyone works towards the same standard.

    I love the social life and medsoc events (100 years this year!)!Work hard, party hard!

    I love physiology and that feeling when you are ploughing through constanzo or vanders and you read about for example orthostatic hypotension and then it clicks "so that's why if you get up from bed too fast you feel dizzy!". General eureka moments where you can apply things like that to everyday life!

    I love dissections, the banter, the whole "six med students around a cadaver" trying to locate something and realising that what you thought was the liver is in fact the pancreas.

    I love how it is assumed that we know EXACTLY what the lecturers are talking about in small group tutorials, everyone afraid to let on during them that they don't and then afterwards everyone asking each other "what was he on about!?"Cue frantic rush to library....


    I love the hospital visits when we get lectures from real doctors which is a nice change from just lectures in college. Love the way we have to dress up in professional clothes even if it is just to see the patient from a distance.


    And having worked in a healthcare environment doing a very menial job cleaning up after people, I'm a tad ashamed to admit that I love the prestige and sense of pride that comes with studying medicine. It is unbelievable the difference in attitude and interest doctors etc take when they realise that this is only a part-time job while you try to fund yourself through college. When they take that two secs to chat to you as you attend to a patient and learn that you are in fact studying medicine, suddenly they fill you in on case details, tell you the specifics and take the time to explain. I love when that happens!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 79 ✭✭daithi_student


    Lovin' this thread! awesome idea!
    first of all i'm a student nurse, and there are so many things i love about nursing; I like developing a relationship with the patient while they're on the ward, i have some orthopaedic experience and seeing an elderly person come in with minimal independance and mobility, in need of a hip replacement for example, then working with the patient pre-op and post op seeing the progress they make with the physio's, being there for them when they dont think they can do it, encouraging them and eventually discharging them knowing that they're stay in hospital has improved they're quality of life. Thats what i like most about it!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18 bleh1234


    I like studying sitting down reading papers studying for exams and then being able to practice evidence based medicine.

    I like procedures everything from doing ivs to scoping.

    I like the majority of my patients.

    I like working in teams with good work ethic and good leadership makes working in
    other teams less stressful when you know they are in the minority & soon you can go back to the hard working team.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 61 ✭✭flerb22


    i love opening an exam paper and being reminded of a patient you saw on the wards


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 440 ✭✭MrPain


    While I'll only be starting studing medicine come september so I don't have anything to add as of yet, I must say this thread is really nice and positive.
    Keep it up people:).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,779 ✭✭✭A Neurotic


    MrPain wrote: »
    While I'll only be starting studing medicine come september so I don't have anything to add as of yet, I must say this thread is really nice and positive.
    Keep it up people:).

    +1 to that, reading this thread gives a great sense of anticipation :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18 bleh1234


    I forgot to say I love teaching it's so nice to see the luck on students faces when they do practical procedures, you know exactly what they're thinking and how they finally feel they're actually doing something constructive. I love the fact that 99% of pts are more than willing to let students put in IVs etc. I really like listening to my student's histories and seeing what they picked up as the most relevant aspect of the presentation. I love seeing my studentsgo from nervous presentation to me at the start of the rotation to confidently presenting to the consultant for their end of rotation assessment.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39 rgnmb


    Great sense of satisfaction from getting a difficult iv cannula in...

    Nice also, to get positive feedback from patient, about their experience as a whole, sometimes the choas that is the HSE, does in fact work....


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,816 ✭✭✭Vorsprung


    Medicine in Ireland is generally great banter, there's invariably a good team spirit. There's a great working ethic amongst almost all people I've had the pleasure of working with - seeing a very low absenteeism rate amongst doctors in the HSE's first HealthStat figures is a testament to that.

    Working with people is great, and seeing people come in to hospital in bits and leaving with a smile on their face is always rewarding.

    Procedures as mentioned above are something I particularly enjoy, and when you're flying solo and then teaching the technique to someone else is a great feeling, as though you've graduated an extra step in your confidence and knowledge.

    And as well as all that, it's a well paid job and I'd be surprised if anyone said that wasn't a plus about the job. The relative ease with which doctors (Irish trained in particular) can move around the world is something we're fortunate to have.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,885 ✭✭✭JuliusCaesar


    tallaght01 wrote: »
    Great idea for a thread. If it's ok with you, we can also open the thread up to all healthcare workers, not just medics.

    I like reassuring people there's nothing wrong with them.

    ...

    I like how we try to make decisions based on good data.

    I like how the vast majority of our patients trust us.

    ...

    It's controversial, but I like how mainstream healthcare people are the ones who genuinely have th best interest of the patients at heart.

    I love working in the public systems, for all their faults.

    I'm a psychologist.

    I just love it when I help people get better.

    I love getting them out of the psychiatric system, when they've often been in it for years and have become 'institutionalised' - when they just see themselves as no-hopers and I've helped them see themselves as capable.

    I love working with the psychiatrists and nurses, OTs and SWs - we can all learn from each other and often have the same point of view on treatment despite our different trainings and background.

    Having worked in the NHS for years, I have great admiration for all of us in the underfunded public mental health system, working in ugly surroundings but with the use of all-round resources, even when they aren't enough...oh for the NHS sometimes.

    I also like working in a small society where you meet patients & ex-patients - and colleagues! - in unexpected places, sometimes years on, and find out what happened after they left.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,813 ✭✭✭PhysiologyRocks


    Anyone starting health-related courses, I'd also love to hear what you're looking forward to the most.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭D.R cowboy


    I'm a psychologist.

    I just love it when I help people get better.

    I love getting them out of the psychiatric system, when they've often been in it for years and have become 'institutionalised' - when they just see themselves as no-hopers and I've helped them see themselves as capable.

    I love working with the psychiatrists and nurses, OTs and SWs - we can all learn from each other and often have the same point of view on treatment despite our different trainings and background.

    Having worked in the NHS for years, I have great admiration for all of us in the underfunded public mental health system, working in ugly surroundings but with the use of all-round resources, even when they aren't enough...oh for the NHS sometimes.

    I also like working in a small society where you meet patients & ex-patients - and colleagues! - in unexpected places, sometimes years on, and find out what happened after they left.


    Psychologist are the most under rated people in the HSE, thats because they are not placed in hospitals but isolated in mental health hospitals but i know there are reasons for this. And there will be a big rise in mental health in the next 10 years and psychologist will be more important that doctors or as important

    And psychologist are doctors too


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,440 ✭✭✭✭Piste


    Anyone starting health-related courses, I'd also love to hear what you're looking forward to the most.

    I'm looking forward to slicing up cadavers and learning the chemistry of it all.


    Ok I know it sounds creepy, but I sort of like cutting things up and seeing what's inside so I'm really looking forward to dissections!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    D.R cowboy wrote: »
    And psychologist are doctors too

    just a point on this - some psychologists have PhDs and can therefore be called "Dr" but that does not make them medical doctors.

    this often causes confusion.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭D.R cowboy


    sam It most be tough doing your line of work, but what are the bright sides of it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,813 ✭✭✭PhysiologyRocks


    Piste wrote: »
    I'm looking forward to slicing up cadavers and learning the chemistry of it all.


    Ok I know it sounds creepy, but I sort of like cutting things up and seeing what's inside so I'm really looking forward to dissections!

    Dissection's fascinating! Not creepy in the least. It's all very clinical and clean, and the cadavers are treated with respect.

    The people who donate their bodies are wonderful. It's such a selfless and admirable act, and so very worthwhile.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    D.R cowboy wrote: »
    sam It most be tough doing your line of work, but what are the bright sides of it?

    there are loads!

    as with all areas of medicine, there's the immense satisfaction that you have done something that has made someone better. that sounds simplistic, but you can never underestimate how distressing and significant someones symptoms are to them, even if we think they "only" have "mild" illness.

    people dont often think of psychiatric illnesses as life-threatening, but severe depression can be, not just because of suicide, but because of a patient not eating or drinking. i have seen ECT save many lives in these kinds of people, and seeing the relatively quick turnaround is immensely rewarding. to know that your timely intervention literally saved someone from death is amazing. (i just wish the anti-ect brigade could witness some of teh success stories, but thats another thread!)

    when dealing with people who have major major illnesses, really chronic and enduring stuff, the day to day rewards are quite limited, as change and progress tends to take time in these people. but when it happens, it's great!
    i'm talking about the people who have been floridly psychotic for years, sometimes decades, who are totally treatment resistant and are (usually) in longterm institutional care. you just have to adjust your outcome measures and accept that improvement may mean them asking if they can have a shower instead of having to be bribed/cajoled/gently encouraged to do so!

    i worked in one of the old style institutions for a good while. it was sad on one level, seeing people who had been abandoned by their families and communities, but i was delighted to work there - firstly, just for the opportunity, as these buildings will close forever over the next decade or so, and secondly because of the patient population - i saw mental illness and "madness" like i had never seen before. seriously off the wall stuff. it fascinated me, and intrigued me, and taught me a lot, and i look back on those days with fond memories. (does that make me sound very weird?:p)

    again, while not wanting to sound odd, the process of detaining someone against their will is something that is very rewarding. why? because, by and large, when it gets to that stage, the patient is in distress, in not amenable to reason and needs someone to step up to the plate and take action. being able to do that, and able to initiate the process of recovery, (however long that may take) is satisfying. knowing that your action here may have prevented a suicide, or harm to others, or harm to self is a great reward.

    psych is not always, or even often, about cures, but more about symptomatic relief. i work in old-age psych, and see a lot of people with dementia who have paranoid symptoms and agitation. management of these is delicate, and not just a matter of throwing benzos at them. i know their dementia will progress, but i like having a role to play in making their final days/weeks/months/years more dignified, less distressing and more comfortable.

    i like the majority of my psychiatric colleagues. it's fair to say that those who are in psychiatry because of a genuine interest are decent, salt of teh earth people. unfortunately, psych gets a lot of NCHDs who are in it because it is a job, and the only job they could get. by and large, these people are not really interested and dont really give a damn, and their work ethic is poor. thats frustrating.

    psych is multi-disciplinary and holistic. you and a team get very involved with patients and their families, and you get to know them quite well. i would hate to be in a specialty where you patch someone up, review them at 6 weeks and tehn never see them again. seems like a conveyor belt to me.

    after a considerable time in psychiatry, i think its fair to say that i am officially no longer shockable :D i have heard and seen it all! when patients tell me something that they expect will elicit shock form me, and they are worried about taht, i love seeing the relief dawn when they realise im not disgusted or shocked.

    part of me has to admit that sometimes i enjoy other peoples discomfiture when i tell them socially that i am a psychiatrist! it is literally a conversation stopper. they immediately panic and try to remember what theyve been saying to you, and are wondering if youre ananlysing them. its hilarious to watch. however, my mirth is usually followed by annoyance and frustration at the lack of unerstanding out there about what a psychiatrist is and does.

    while im on a roll here i may as well mention what i ahte about the job:

    one word: STIGMA

    it is so pervasive in society

    have a look at threads on these boards, you will see all kinds of crap propagated about the mentally ill and the psych services.

    people are living in ignorance, which promotes (unjustified) fear.

    but its not just the general public - i have to constantly fight with medical colleagues just so my patients will get the treatment they deserve, and not be dismissed as "just psych".

    psych patients presenting with physical illness are not always taken as seriously as they should be. their symptoms are sometimes dismissed or attributed to being "in the head". it can be hard get medics down to see someone on teh psych ward sometimes, and nigh on impossible get them to transfer a medically very compromised patient to a more appropriate setting.

    i absolutely hate that i have to defend my profession from scientologists and other morons who think that psychiatrists are interested in simply drugging everyone to the hilt, and that we drug people simply for being a little bit different, alternative or odd. i hate the fact that the scientologists picket conferences with signs depicting "dr death" injecting something directly into someones brain. i despise that, above all other specialties, we are perceived as having a very dubious relationship with the pharma companies.

    i also hate the uninformed idiots who think anyone with any sign of mental ilness should be locked up, forever, away from so called civilised society.

    you can be guaranteed that teh vast majority of our detractors know precious little about serious mental illness and its consequences.

    now, are ya sorry you asked! i didnt intend to go on such a rant, but it kinda flowed!

    edit, just re-read the post and i wonder if it comes across as if i think of myself as some unsung hero - thats certainly not the case and not the impression i was trying to give!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭D.R cowboy


    sam34 wrote: »
    there are loads!

    as with all areas of medicine, there's the immense satisfaction that you have done something that has made someone better. that sounds simplistic, but you can never underestimate how distressing and significant someones symptoms are to them, even if we think they "only" have "mild" illness.

    people dont often think of psychiatric illnesses as life-threatening, but severe depression can be, not just because of suicide, but because of a patient not eating or drinking. i have seen ECT save many lives in these kinds of people, and seeing the relatively quick turnaround is immensely rewarding. to know that your timely intervention literally saved someone from death is amazing. (i just wish the anti-ect brigade could witness some of teh success stories, but thats another thread!)

    when dealing with people who have major major illnesses, really chronic and enduring stuff, the day to day rewards are quite limited, as change and progress tends to take time in these people. but when it happens, it's great!
    i'm talking about the people who have been floridly psychotic for years, sometimes decades, who are totally treatment resistant and are (usually) in longterm institutional care. you just have to adjust your outcome measures and accept that improvement may mean them asking if they can have a shower instead of having to be bribed/cajoled/gently encouraged to do so!

    i worked in one of the old style institutions for a good while. it was sad on one level, seeing people who had been abandoned by their families and communities, but i was delighted to work there - firstly, just for the opportunity, as these buildings will close forever over the next decade or so, and secondly because of the patient population - i saw mental illness and "madness" like i had never seen before. seriously off the wall stuff. it fascinated me, and intrigued me, and taught me a lot, and i look back on those days with fond memories. (does that make me sound very weird?:p)

    again, while not wanting to sound odd, the process of detaining someone against their will is something that is very rewarding. why? because, by and large, when it gets to that stage, the patient is in distress, in not amenable to reason and needs someone to step up to the plate and take action. being able to do that, and able to initiate the process of recovery, (however long that may take) is satisfying. knowing that your action here may have prevented a suicide, or harm to others, or harm to self is a great reward.

    psych is not always, or even often, about cures, but more about symptomatic relief. i work in old-age psych, and see a lot of people with dementia who have paranoid symptoms and agitation. management of these is delicate, and not just a matter of throwing benzos at them. i know their dementia will progress, but i like having a role to play in making their final days/weeks/months/years more dignified, less distressing and more comfortable.

    i like the majority of my psychiatric colleagues. it's fair to say that those who are in psychiatry because of a genuine interest are decent, salt of teh earth people. unfortunately, psych gets a lot of NCHDs who are in it because it is a job, and the only job they could get. by and large, these people are not really interested and dont really give a damn, and their work ethic is poor. thats frustrating.

    psych is multi-disciplinary and holistic. you and a team get very involved with patients and their families, and you get to know them quite well. i would hate to be in a specialty where you patch someone up, review them at 6 weeks and tehn never see them again. seems like a conveyor belt to me.

    after a considerable time in psychiatry, i think its fair to say that i am officially no longer shockable :D i have heard and seen it all! when patients tell me something that they expect will elicit shock form me, and they are worried about taht, i love seeing the relief dawn when they realise im not disgusted or shocked.

    part of me has to admit that sometimes i enjoy other peoples discomfiture when i tell them socially that i am a psychiatrist! it is literally a conversation stopper. they immediately panic and try to remember what theyve been saying to you, and are wondering if youre ananlysing them. its hilarious to watch. however, my mirth is usually followed by annoyance and frustration at the lack of unerstanding out there about what a psychiatrist is and does.

    while im on a roll here i may as well mention what i ahte about the job:

    one word: STIGMA

    it is so pervasive in society

    have a look at threads on these boards, you will see all kinds of crap propagated about the mentally ill and the psych services.

    people are living in ignorance, which promotes (unjustified) fear.

    but its not just the general public - i have to constantly fight with medical colleagues just so my patients will get the treatment they deserve, and not be dismissed as "just psych".

    psych patients presenting with physical illness are not always taken as seriously as they should be. their symptoms are sometimes dismissed or attributed to being "in the head". it can be hard get medics down to see someone on teh psych ward sometimes, and nigh on impossible get them to transfer a medically very compromised patient to a more appropriate setting.

    i absolutely hate that i have to defend my profession from scientologists and other morons who think that psychiatrists are interested in simply drugging everyone to the hilt, and that we drug people simply for being a little bit different, alternative or odd. i hate the fact that the scientologists picket conferences with signs depicting "dr death" injecting something directly into someones brain. i despise that, above all other specialties, we are perceived as having a very dubious relationship with the pharma companies.

    i also hate the uninformed idiots who think anyone with any sign of mental ilness should be locked up, forever, away from so called civilised society.

    you can be guaranteed that teh vast majority of our detractors know precious little about serious mental illness and its consequences.

    now, are ya sorry you asked! i didnt intend to go on such a rant, but it kinda flowed!

    edit, just re-read the post and i wonder if it comes across as if i think of myself as some unsung hero - thats certainly not the case and not the impression i was trying to give!


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb5LJ_Gdwyc

    You deserve this song great reply


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,644 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    As a non-medic: It's just so bloody interesting! The history of medicine (especially if you're looking back far enough) is a wonderful tale and the science behind modern medicine is fascinating.

    Then I'm a geek. ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 201 ✭✭chanste


    Anyone starting health-related courses, I'd also love to hear what you're looking forward to the most.

    I'm looking forward to seeing the medical profession from the other side. Spent a lot of time myself as a patient in and out of hospitals over the past 10 years and it really created a huge respect for the doctors and nurses who helped me. I am hoping that the job will give me a much greater insight into the things that happen to people around me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68 ✭✭Doyle_G


    ok i may not be training to be a dcotor or nurse so please excuse me if this isn't what you're looking for but i'm starting a masters in biomedical diagnostics and the one thing that i'm looking for ward to is knowin that work i might carry out in the future may help a patient be diagnosed and treated quicker... when looking for a masters, i wanted one that i could possibly make a difference to peoples lives by doing it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭allsaintssue


    Going into third year nursing I spend a shocking amount of my time frustrated that I'm not studying medicine yet but there are a lot of elements of nursing I love.

    I love chatting with patients, there are so many people who come in with no family and they've been incapacitated by illness for a long time so they are lonely and I like feeling like by sitting and chatting with them for a while I've made their day a little brighter. Plus I get a lot out of talking to these people. Often times when they know I'm a student they are delighted to start explainging aspects of their illness or their treatment to you.

    I love being part of a team, I like the banter that goes with it but for the most part I love feeling like we are all working towards the same end goal.

    I love going to see interesting and unusual procedures done. Admittedly I am slightly shameless about asking can I accompany a patient down to have the procedure done, but If I don't ask no-one is going to invite me so I might as well grab the chances where I can.

    I LOVE hospitals, Love them!I know how weird that sounds but they are one of my favourite buildings to be in. I think there is always such a buzz, there is always something happening. It is a building that never really sleeps, I like that.

    I love when people say 'Excuse me, Nurse...', although truth be told I have a horrible habit of turning around to see who they're talking to when this happens:o


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭JSK 252


    PhysiolgoyRocks told me that the thread was also for pharmacists etc. so!:pac:

    I chose pharmacy because I am interested in how drugs effect the body and I am amazed by the miraculous effects some can have on a persons livelyhood. An easy example is levedopa for parkinsons disease.

    I feel that I can honestly contribute to the heatlh care profession through pharmacy and the wage aint bad too. Not as good as it was before but id say within a few years pharmacists will be commanding a decent wage!;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 923 ✭✭✭Chunky Monkey


    I love when people say 'Excuse me, Nurse...', although truth be told I have a horrible habit of turning around to see who they're talking to when this happens:o

    Haha why's that a horrible habit?? They could be talking to you! All the different uniforms can be very confusing. I get called nurse all the time, don't bother correcting them any more unless they ask about something to do with their meds etc.

    Nice to see more student nurses on here :D

    Clinical skills so far is my favourite part of medicine...learning the practical side, but tbh I love all of it. In my job as a nursing auxillary, doing the little things that cheers a patient up...taking the trouble to sit them up properly for lunch, washing their hair, giving them a foot soak...love that :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭allsaintssue


    Haha why's that a horrible habit?? They could be talking to you!
    Oh, I mean a horrible habit in the sense that Im always slightly shocked people believe me as a nurse. I turn in a 'who me?' kinda way


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 407 ✭✭OxfordComma


    Thanks so much for this thread:) It's very reassuring.

    I'm heading into Pre-Med in NUIG in a few days' time and, though I've been mostly elated and thrilled at the prospect of finally starting, I've become a little worried from time to time about what I might be getting myself into:o

    While the prospect of long hours starting out and questionable working conditions does, I admit, seem a bit daunting at the moment, reading this thread has cheered me up a great deal and reminded me of the reasons I chose to study Medicine in the first place.

    Thanks:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭Anna88


    Im going into First year Nursing this year (General) and already I know being part of a team will be my fav thing :D
    Im a bit of a study freak so I guess Ill enjoy being a book worm to :P


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5 Look_Me_Up


    I love this thread right here!! I'm 16 and was beginning to buckle under the idea of the workload which everyone is on about but this thread is just, wow! I'm so reassured now I can't thank you enough! FUTURE MED STUDENT


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 303 ✭✭SleepDoc


    In my field (anaesthesia) I love,

    - The teamwork.

    - Applying my knowledge and skills.

    - ICU - no matter what happens, no matter what the end result is, you have done your best for someone.

    - Being so busy, so focused you don't notice the time go by.

    - Teasing the surgeons.


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