A hill you can't climb

rflynnr

I've been off the bike for a few weeks as my OH did herself a fairly serious injury (nothing permanent thank Chr*st) and I'm in part-time nurse/full-time parent mode. (Basically I can't get out at all.) I've even re-borrowed a turbo trainer - thanks to Forza Milo.

This has given me time for a lot of idle - but bike-related - speculation. Amongst these thoughts is the question: is there a hill within a 20 mile radius of Dublin city that the serious climbers on here (you know who you are - no modesty) cannot get to the top of because it is too steep/too long?

I ask because I'm looking to set a personal training target - i.e. to get to the top of said hill - for when I do get back on the bike. I can climb the obvious stuff in Wicklow - Slieve Maan, Shay Elliott, Wicklow Gap, Kippure etc. - just not very well. So I'm looking for something that even the Raams of this world might balk (baulk?) at.

Thoughts (or even idle speculations) welcomed.

blorg

There are hills off-road that you wouldn't get to the top of on a road bike but challenging yourself to try would seem rather pointless. Your enemy would be your tyre slipping out.

Almost by definition there are no unclimbable paved roads. If a car can get up it so can a bike.

Probably the worst in Wicklow is the one from the bottom of Glencree Valley up to Old Long Hill. Short (1km) but very very steep, hits 20-25% in two places. I would pay money to see you do that on the cargo bike.

Slieve Maan from the Shay Elliot side is probably the most difficult climb near Dublin, it's long and reasonably steep with no let up for an extended distance.

If you really want to challenge yourself though you should try the Alps or Pyrenees - I am planning on attempting the Raid around September-time, Atlantic to Mediterranean via the most mountainous route possible, 18 cols in 100 hours. Not actually quite as difficult as it sounds as some of the cols are small and others you get two for the price of one. Will still be tough though!

LeotheLion

cork screw hill in co clare???

Captain Havoc

LeotheLion wrote: »

cork screw hill in co clare???

Did it on the Tour de Burren, I'm a very poor climber in fact down here they say "it doesn't matter how slow you climb jerseyeire will always be behind you" any road, yes cork screw is very doable.

Esroh

LeotheLion wrote: »

cork screw hill in co clare???

Very Rideble was on both Tour de Burren routes.

victorcarrera

LeotheLion wrote: »

cork screw hill in co clare???

If you are in Clare and wan't a challenge.
Ride the Corkscrew as a warm up then nip down to Doolin and try this.

http://bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx?course=64182

I had to use 34/27 on parts of it. By comparison parts of it are the steepest I have come across and Ive done Long Hill in Wicklow with ease.
Tip for the uninitiated: Keep your weight forward so the front wheel stays on the ground.

DirkVoodoo

Maybe try one of the usual suspects a cog or two higher?

Lumen

Kippure with kids on board.

scottreynolds

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Maybe try one of the usual suspects a cog or two higher?

Thats the most sensible recommendation here. When you can climb anything just try and climb it faster that how you can developer real power. How about you set a time target for a hill. For me, it was 10 minutes up Howth, now its 8:30 up Howth. I'd continue to set targets up some of the longer routes.... 15 minutes up Sally Gap -- something like that.

niceonetom

When I read "a hill you can't climb" I thought you were referring to the turbo trainer. Jesus I hate those things - you have my total commiserations of having to use one in the middle of summer. You poor poor bastard.

LeoD

rflynnr wrote: »

is there a hill within a 20 mile radius of Dublin city that the serious climbers on here (you know who you are - no modesty) cannot get to the top of because it is too steep/too long?

LeotheLion wrote: »

cork screw hill in co clare???

Raam

Rflynnr, I'll be doing laps of Howth this afternoon, circa 4pm... lets see if we can knacker ya out.

Billy Whizz

rflynnr wrote: »

is there a hill within a 20 mile radius of Dublin city that the serious climbers on here (you know who you are - no modesty) cannot get to the top of because it is too steep/too long?

Unfortunately not. As mentioned previously, you'll just have to do them faster. Or climb them in the big ring.

Timmah!

scottreynolds wrote: »

For me, it was 10 minutes up Howth, now its 8:30 up Howth.

Is that up the long way (as opposed to from the village) and is the time from Sutton Cross?

rflynnr

Thanks for all the suggestions. Clare sounds lovely but I suspect it's (just) over the 20 mile radius from Dublin.

As for Old Long Hill, I can see it on Google Maps but it's unclear which road it refers to: would I be right in guessing that it goes in a runs in a north-westerly direction off what I think of as the "quiet" road between Roundwood and Enniskerry? If so, I'll give it a bash.

Dirk's suggestion of the bigger gear is "duh - why didn't I think of that" solution. Watching Lumen the a couple of weeks ago I was struck that he remained in the middle of the cassette heading up what I thought were steep enough climbs. Can't think why that didn't occur to me earlier. (And it'll add a Tim Krabbe "Flynn's 27 was clean as a whistle" pyscho-drama element to the climbs.)

And - @ Raam - thanks for the offer to ride me into the ground (so to speak) this pm but my nursing sojourn goes on. One question though: when you do repeats on Howth, once you've reached the top car park, do you descend back into the village or do you go right round the peninsula (i.e. via Sutton).

lukester

I heard about your misfortune, that's a serious downer, especially mid-summer.

The hill blorg refers to is the steepest I've heard of or seen close to Dublin, insanely steep, more so than Devil's Glen, anyone?

Some of the roads up from Bohernabreena to the Featherbeds are pretty steep too, and not quite as far away. Devil's Elbow is steep too, but short.

I'd favour the idea of a timed uphill goal, arguably easier on the knees than just hitting the steepest hills around, and easy to quantify improvements.

Good luck with the turbo- the one that apparently sounds like a rocket going off :pac:

rflynnr

Lumen wrote: »

Kippure with kids on board.

Actually, it has occurred to me that the W100 route might be do-able with the kids (as long as I could drug convince them to stay put for 5-6 hours).

lukester

@rflyynr Pretty sure this is the road, goes from the very bottom of the valley up to Old Long Hill

Raam

rflynnr wrote: »

And - @ Raam - thanks for the offer to ride me into the ground (so to speak) this pm but my nursing sojourn goes on. One question though: when you do repeats on Howth, once you've reached the top car park, do you descend back into the village or do you go right round the peninsula (i.e. via Sutton).

I usually head straight over the top, then turn around and retrace my steps. Dont like riding through the village as the road is rubbish.

Lumen

rflynnr wrote: »

Actually, it has occurred to me that the W100 route might be do-able with the kids (as long as I could drug convince them to stay put for 5-6 hours).

I'd be up for this, on my Tricross single with trailer.

I'd need wifey to be in the area with support car though, since "DNF from whinging" is the most likely outcome.

rflynnr

Lumen wrote: »

I'd be up for this, on my Tricross single with trailer.

I'd need wifey to be in the area with support car though, since "DNF from whinging" is the most likely outcome.

Great. Mind you, the five-year old is currently working on stabilizer-free cycling so she may insist on doing it herself. (And what kind of parent would I be if I tried to stop her?)

Is there a minimum age limit?

Lumen

rflynnr wrote: »

Great. Mind you, the five-year old is currently working on stabilizer-free cycling so she may insist on doing it herself. (And what kind of parent would I be if I tried to stop her?)

Is there a minimum age limit?

Mine are almost 2 and 4. The older one is too small for a trailer bike, so it'll have to be seated in the trailer for both of them.

They're both climbing build already, but I'll be restricting calorie intake in preparation.

Perhaps we should start with something a little less ambitious than the WW100 route.

blorg

rflynnr wrote: »

As for Old Long Hill, I can see it on Google Maps but it's unclear which road it refers to: would I be right in guessing that it goes in a runs in a north-westerly direction off what I think of as the "quiet" road between Roundwood and Enniskerry? If so, I'll give it a bash.

No, that is simply Old Long Hill up to Djouce. A tough hill but nothing on this one that I was referring to- it comes up from the bottom of the valley to join the road up to Djouce. (I see lukester has already posted but I'll post anyway just to confirm this is the one and is insanely steep )

To be honest I don't really see all of this as a particularly worthwhile goal though, certainly there is little point trying to get up hills in unsuitable gears unless you are specifically working on your leg strength.

Getting faster up any hill would be a more worthwhile target. Use whatever gear gets you up fastest.

Chips Lovell

blorg wrote: »

....but nothing on this one that I was referring to- it comes up from the bottom of the valley to join the road up to Djouce.

That hill is a right pain in the ass. Trying to avoid lifting your front wheel and not letting the back one slip.

rflynnr

blorg wrote: »

To be honest I don't really see all of this as a particularly worthwhile goal though, certainly there is little point trying to get up hills in unsuitable gears unless you are specifically working on your leg strength.

What I have perhaps failed to convey is my need for a "Rocky II" reaching the top of the steps-type moment.

But actually, leg strength is precisely the issue. I'm profoundly conscious of two countervailing tendencies on my child-laiden, cargobike commute: a) my kids will only get older and heavier and b) I will get older. Ironically, therefore, I'm treating the road bike as training for my commute.

Raam

rflynnr wrote: »

What I have perhaps failed to convey is my need for a "Rocky II" reaching the top of the steps-type moment.

But actually, leg strength is precisely the issue. I'm profoundly conscious of two countervailing tendencies on my child-laiden, cargobike commute: a) my kids will only get older and heavier and b) I will get older. Ironically, therefore, I'm treating the road bike as training for my commute.

There will, of course, come a time when they actually will not get into the cargobike anymore, no matter how cool you tell them it is.

Chips Lovell

Raam wrote: »

There will, of course, come a time when they actually will not get into the cargobike anymore, no matter how cool you tell them it is.

Ah no, he'll be bringing them to their debs in it.

lukester

rflynnr wrote: »

But actually, leg strength is precisely the issue. I'm profoundly conscious of two countervailing tendencies on my child-laiden, cargobike commute: a) my kids will only get older and heavier and b) I will get older. Ironically, therefore, I'm treating the road bike as training for my commute.

This cargo-bike sounds like ideal training. Just hammer up the hill on your commute progressively harder.

If the kids get sick of the cargo bike, you could carry your wife as training ballast.

Raam

el tonto wrote: »

Ah no, he'll be bringing them to their debs in it.

actually, I need a lift into town later. Rflynnr, fancy a nixer?

rflynnr

Raam wrote: »

There will, of course, come a time when they actually will not get into the cargobike anymore, no matter how cool you tell them it is.

I suspect they've already figured out I'm not exactly the ultimate arbiter of cool. However, the cost of the bike demands that it be amortised over at least three or four years of use (after which point I'll probably trying selling it to you). Meanwhile, they're getting in it if I have nail them down beg them.

rflynnr

el tonto wrote: »

Ah no, he'll be bringing them to their debs in it.

Actually, that could be quite a useful threat as they enter their teens: "clean your room or it's..." (nods in direction of cargobike).

blorg

rflynnr wrote: »

But actually, leg strength is precisely the issue. I'm profoundly conscious of two countervailing tendencies on my child-laiden, cargobike commute: a) my kids will only get older and heavier and b) I will get older. Ironically, therefore, I'm treating the road bike as training for my commute.

Leg strength vs. improving your cardiovascular system so you can spin up hills faster... Unless you are already spinning up hills at 100 RPM I'd concentrate on the latter. Not to say the former isn't important too but not much point in isolation.

rflynnr

Raam wrote: »

actually, I need a lift into town later. Rflynnr, fancy a nixer?

You couldn't afford me.

rflynnr

lukester wrote: »

This cargo-bike sounds like ideal training. Just hammer up the hill on your commute progressively harder.

If the kids get sick of the cargo bike, you could carry your wife as training ballast.

She'd love that: "Howaya ballast - I mean howaya love."

rflynnr

blorg wrote: »

Leg strength vs. improving your cardiovascular system so you can spin up hills faster... Unless you are already spinning up hills at 100 RPM I'd concentrate on the latter. Not to say the former isn't important too but not much point in isolation.

No, I'm generally an in-the-saddle grinder, regardless of whether I'm up Kippure on the road bike or Glasnevin Hill on the cargobike. I see your point though.

LeotheLion

LeoD wrote: »

Leopold I did not reply to the 20 mile radius part my reply was aimed at the general question.

DualFrontDiscs

I ride the one of the left as training for the one on the right. It's amazing what you get used to and how fast you feel when you change bikes.



DFD

rflynnr

DualFrontDiscs wrote: »

I ride the one of the left as training for the one on the right. It's amazing what you get used to and how fast you feel when you change bikes.



DFD

Nice.

DualFrontDiscs

rflynnr wrote: »

Nice.

Thank you. It's a sweet ride, though very different. Litespeed is nice too, but can't carry two kids and a week's worth of shopping

Húrin

rflynnr wrote: »

I've been off the bike for a few weeks as my OH did herself a fairly serious injury (nothing permanent thank Chr*st) and I'm in part-time nurse/full-time parent mode. (Basically I can't get out at all.) I've even re-borrowed a turbo trainer - thanks to Forza Milo.

This has given me time for a lot of idle - but bike-related - speculation. Amongst these thoughts is the question: is there a hill within a 20 mile radius of Dublin city that the serious climbers on here (you know who you are - no modesty) cannot get to the top of because it is too steep/too long?

I'm not a serious climber but there's a road that goes from the Vevay Road (connecting Bray to Greystones) over the Little Sugar Loaf to the N11 that is very steep in one place, though short. I had to walk that bit.