Running HD from a central hub

Dr. Nick

If I place the HD box in a central cabinet, what cables do I use to run to the various outlets, a long HDMI?

Moorsie

Although have found long HDMI cables hard to find in Ireland at a reasonable price. Try Ebay.

There are gizmos that will send wirelessly. I think Geffen make one. But the costs I've seen quoted are astronomical and again you'd have to source overseas.

gtg60

Dr. Nick wrote: »

If I place the HD box in a central cabinet, what cables do I use to run to the various outlets, a long HDMI?

I use a combination of long HDMI cables, CAT 5 extenders and a HDMI Matrix switcher, what exactly are you trying to do?

Moorsie

Moorsie wrote: »

Although have found long HDMI cables hard to find in Ireland at a reasonable price. Try Ebay.

There are gizmos that will send wirelessly. I think Geffen make one. But the costs I've seen quoted are astronomical and again you'd have to source overseas.

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=4318

$999 :eek::eek::eek:

@ gtg60
Would there be much degradation on a 30ft hdmi cable?
What degradation effect do the extenders have?

I'm like the op also setting up a hub.
I'm wanting to run to 5 rooms.

I presume splitting hdmi cables is a no go? IE is there such a thing as a splitter box [like a multi scart].
Again if this is going to degrade signal,I won't bother.
Whats the matrix switcher you mention? and is there degradation using that/
Could you post links to these?

gtg60

Deleted User wrote: »

@ gtg60
Would there be much degradation on a 30ft hdmi cable?
What degradation effect do the extenders have?

HI Black Briar, Arklow, eh? I'm only up the road
HDMI distribution is a bit of a nightmare as no two set-ups are alike, I have learned this the hard way :mad:
30ft (10M) cables are no problem and have always been successful for me, I have used both cheap and expensive ones (to my upstairs TV and my projector), I only ever saw picture degradation on a 15M cable but this was removed after the signal was boosted by my HDMI Matrix switcher.
Never had a problem with extenders either and the one I currently use to my projector is almost 20M away, I originally used a cheapo one off eBay and worked fine until it broke 2 months later , I don't think the cheapo ones like being integrated into a complex distribution system, I now use a Geffen one, the beauty of the extenders is custom length and the fact that it is easy to run CAT5 cables (two of them are needed) compared to a big thick HDMI cable with a big block connector on the end of it. I had a roll of CAT5/ plugs / tool from networking my house so no extra cost (for me).

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm like the op also setting up a hub.
I'm wanting to run to 5 rooms.

I presume splitting hdmi cables is a no go? IE is there such a thing as a splitter box [like a multi scart].

Yes, there are Splitters and these work well but there are caveats, however 5 is an odd number, the ones I have seen are 2,4 or 8, the problem with these and any multi connected HDMI device is in the handshaking, the most significant drawback is resolution setting, imagine you have 4 tv's connected to one HDMI device and one of these tv's has a max resolution (and more importantly cannot display any higher resolution) then this will be the max resolution seen by all tv's.

Deleted User wrote: »

What's the matrix switcher you mention? and is there degradation using that/
Could you post links to these?

There are many types of HDMI switches and splitters, a Matrix switcher is the most flexible (complex and expensive) e.g. mine is a 4:2 one, this means that I can connect 4 HDMI devices (Sky, DVD, XBox etc) and then it can be connected to 2 devices (my 2 TV's) and each TV can display ANY of the inputs independantly, both TV's can even watch the same input at the same time
Generally any powered HDMI device will actually boost the signal, there is no (noticeable) loss of picture quality in my system, this was the main reason for going to the trouble of a HDMI system.

I have used many different companies in my quest for the system I have now, probably the best value and most helpful guy I've come across is from here:
http://hdcompany.co.uk/
Have a good look around his site, there is bound to be something that will fit your needs

watty

Moorsie wrote: »

Although have found long HDMI cables hard to find in Ireland at a reasonable price. Try Ebay.

There are gizmos that will send wirelessly. I think Geffen make one. But the costs I've seen quoted are astronomical and again you'd have to source overseas.

The only legal method for Wireless HD is TurboG (802.11g enhanced) 108/125Mbps or 802.11n WiFi. Won't work for HDMI and only works with no other traffic & perfect signal.

All direct HDMI Wireless Adaptors are illegal in the EU and Ireland. Besides the range is often very low. It's to avoid cable up wall.

You need a cable. You can get HDMI to CAT5 cable adaptors. Two cat5 cables needed.

You can get an HDMI "splitter amp".

bk

watty wrote: »

All direct HDMI Wireless Adaptors are illegal in the EU and Ireland. Besides the range is often very low. It's to avoid cable up wall.

I that case hope no one from Comreg drops into any Sony Stores with their fancy Z1's

ZeRoY

CE-Link have a nice HDMI Repeater for a cheap price. Daisy chaining up to 4 of these and you can reach up to 20-25 Meters in length.

You can read more HERE

bob11

gtg60 wrote: »

I have used many different companies in my quest for the system I have now, probably the best value and most helpful guy I've come across is from here:
http://hdcompany.co.uk/
Have a good look around his site, there is bound to be something that will fit your needs

Hi gtg60,
thinking of using a hdmi matrix splitter as you have, to route a number of hd sources to a few different tvs.. I am planning to have a central comms room with all my devices stored in it ...

How did you handle the remote control issues ?
Can you recommend a magic eye system that would work with multiple systems ?
I guess from different rooms, I will need to control, the
Matrix switch, Sky HD, Blu-Ray etc ...
What cabling do I need to run for this ?

Thanks in advance for your help ..

Bob

John mac

I had some links that may help here

bk

I never realised it was possible to do HDMI over cat5, very cool, learn something new every day.

I notice that some devices require two cat5e cables out while others reqyuire just one, what is the difference?

gtg60

bob11 wrote: »

How did you handle the remote control issues ?
Can you recommend a magic eye system that would work with multiple systems?
I guess from different rooms, I will need to control, the
Matrix switch, Sky HD, Blu-Ray etc ...
What cabling do I need to run for this ?

I've simplified my explanation a little as my system is more complex and includes multi-room audio at present so I've only referenced the bits I think you would be interested in.
Originally my distribution system consisted of the Sky box in the sitting room that ran to a distribution amp in the attic, each TV had a magic eye so it could control the Sky box, soon I added my DVD recorder to the system by adding a modulator and a TV link plus, this has two IR emitters but if you place them correctly I found I could control 2 devices each.
Next I added my HDMI Matrix and used the existing IR distribution set-up as it worked and controlled everything I needed.
If I was starting again from scratch I would probably use a Keene IR commander and still may as my AV system is soon to evolve again!

gtg60

bk wrote: »

I never realised it was possible to do HDMI over cat5, very cool, learn something new every day.

I notice that some devices require two cat5e cables out while others reqyuire just one, what is the difference?

The devices with only one CAT 5 cable are only new to the market, originally they all had to have 2x CAT 5 cables, one was for Video/ Audio the other for HDCP.

gtg60

gtg60 wrote: »

The devices with only one CAT 5 cable are only new to the market, originally they all had to have 2x CAT 5 cables, one was for Video/ Audio the other for HDCP.

so you can run hdmi to an extender as above linked and use cat 5 from there to another extender adapter where it becomes hdmi again?
No degradation ? And this does sound and vision?

gtg60

Deleted User wrote: »

so you can run hdmi to an extender as above linked and use cat 5 from there to another extender adapter where it becomes hdmi again?
No degradation ? And this does sound and vision?

Yes, both sound and vision and no picture degradation (as tested by my untrained eye!). These CAT5 extenders need to be powered, the first one I had only needed the Sender to be powered but the Gefen item needed both.

I only have experience of the ones that use 2x CAT5 cables, as stated earliar I used a cheap one from eBay which worked (for a while) but then bought a Gefen one as my system is more complex than previously explained, if for example I want to watch my Pioneer DVD player on my projector then it runs like this
DVD player > via 0.5M HDMI cable >
Pioneer AMP > via 1.0M HDMI cable >
Matrix Switcher > via 0.5M HDMI cable >
Gefen sender > via 2x 20M CAT5 cables >
Gefen receiver > via 2.0M HDMI cable >
Projector

I don't think the cheaper HDMI extender I originally used liked being on the end of a long HDMI chain but in a simpler system may work fine, HDMI distribution is very trial 'n' error. The only good piece of advice I can give here is IF you can run a HDMI cable then do it, it will be more reliable, robust and doesn't consume power.
If you need to run cables an insane distance (my Gefen is quoted at 150 feet!) and/ or it's impossible to run a big thick cable then the CAT5 extender will be your best bet.

watty

Deleted User wrote: »

so you can run hdmi to an extender as above linked and use cat 5 from there to another extender adapter where it becomes hdmi again?
No degradation ? And this does sound and vision?

yes.
Assuming the HDMI source has audio. Not all do.

bk

Thanks for the info gtg60, I've got single ethernet cables in position in each room already, thus my interest. I could potentially wire up a whole home video system without needing to run any new wires through walls (however I would lose my gigabit ethernet wired network, but then I don't really make much use of it, 802.11n or powerline devices are probably sufficient).

Any chance you could describe your audio setup?

Do you have an AV amp next to the TV or do you have it in a central location and wired from there?

gtg60

bk wrote: »

I've got single ethernet cables in position in each room already, thus my interest. I could potentially wire up a whole home video system without needing to run any new wires through walls (however I would lose my gigabit ethernet wired network, but then I don't really make much use of it, 802.11n or powerline devices are probably sufficient).

I suppose if you can't run any more cables then that's your only option, I would buy one and thoroughly test it before making a full commitment.
Still if it's possible to run a HDMI cable then do it!
Don't forget IR control, how are you going to implement that?

bk wrote: »

Any chance you could describe your audio setup?

Do you have an AV amp next to the TV or do you have it in a central location and wired from there?

It's simple enough at the moment but will be upgraded in the next 6 months.
I have a 7 channel Pioneer Amp that 'lives' in the sitting room and is used for 5.1 Surround sound, this Amp has the option of a multi-room setting thereby using the unused 2 channels independantly, I've ran these wires up to the attic and they go through a remote 8 speaker switcher (it isn't used fully at the moment) and then to a set of bedroom and kitchen ceiling speakers. Before I moved into this house I ran a ton of speaker and CAT 5 cable all over the place but I'm lucky in that there is a conduit that goes from behind the sitting room wall up to the attic so adding stuff (and I have) isn't as major a problem as it could be.
As described previously, I have magic eyes running into every room, even ones that don't have TV's! This means I can control almost all my equipment from any room (with the right remote) and the remotes I have are Harmony's and they're great, I've 4 of them, picked them all up on iBood. I didn't mention earliar but from the output of the TV link plus I use a splitter, one end goes into my Pioneer Amp and then this is daisy chained to my Pioneer DVD and Pioneer Plasma (this is a feature they have called SR), the other end of the splitter goes to a set of IR emitters, they are not the ones that came with the TV link but a set of 3 that are more discrete, these aim at my HDMI matrix, DVD recorder, XBox and AZBox.
So, I'm in the kitchen, I pick up my programmed Harmony and press the 'Listen to Radio' button, this IR signal ends up at my Amp where it turns on the multiroom speakers and sets it to Radio, I can change volume, station etc from the kitchen and the only thing in the kitchen is a remote, a pair of ceiling speaker and the magic eye (which I dissembled to be more discrete) which is mounted over a door frame. Practically anything attached to my Amp can be listened to, I even fitted an iPod dock in the kitchen that is connected to the Amp.
There are only 2 rooms that this works in at the moment, I'm planning on moving an Amp into the attic and fitting the other rooms speakers in the near future but I'm in no panic, the kitchen is where music is listened to most.

I looked into 'proper' multiroom audio set-ups and they were in their thousands and didn't include speakers/fitting, apart from the existing Magic Eyes (which cost me a fiver each in a job lot), the TV link plus (~£30) and the remote speaker switcher (~$140) it hasn't cost me any more, I think that's a lot of the fun of projects like this, no satisfaction is handing over a wad of money to some installer

eddiem74

gtg60 wrote: »

...remote speaker switcher (~$140)...

gtg60 - WOW :eek: - sounds like you have a super set-up !

Can you provide details on your remote speaker switcher. I have a manual one at present but this sounds interesting ! Thanks.

bk

gtg60 wrote: »

I suppose if you can't run any more cables then that's your only option, I would buy one and thoroughly test it before making a full commitment.
Still if it's possible to run a HDMI cable then do it!
Don't forget IR control, how are you going to implement that?

Sure it is possible, just need to get the claw hammer and make some holes in the plaster board

Just trying to see if there is any easy way around it.

I was thinking of using a Harmony RF remote, I'm in an apartment, with the study where the gear is in the middle of the apartment, so I'm guessing it would work ok.

gtg60 wrote: »

I looked into 'proper' multiroom audio set-ups and they were in their thousands and didn't include speakers/fitting, apart from the existing Magic Eyes (which cost me a fiver each in a job lot), the TV link plus (~£30) and the remote speaker switcher (~$140) it hasn't cost me any more, I think that's a lot of the fun of projects like this, no satisfaction is handing over a wad of money to some installer

Yep, your setup sounds very nice and much more fun (and cheaper) then an installer.

FYI I went a different way for whole home audio, I went with Apple Airport Express device in each room, directly connected to speakers, they stream mp3's and Internet radio from itunes on my media center and I use an iPhone with the Apple Remote app to control it. Very nice, like a sonos setup at a fraction of the cost.

BTW Thanks for the info about the Pioneer SR, I've a Pioneer Plasma myself and I must get a new amp, so I'll keep this in mind.

gtg60

eddiem74 wrote: »

gtg60 - WOW :eek: - sounds like you have a super set-up !

Can you provide details on your remote speaker switcher. I have a manual one at present but this sounds interesting ! Thanks.

Thanks, I kinda forget how complex it is until I need to spend ten minutes typing it out!
My speaker switcher is called an AB8SS, unfortunately they are no longer made, I heard about it on Homeseer (my HA software but that's a whole different area of complexity). I had briefly looked into a seperate small amp per room and an audio matrix switcher. There is always interesting stuff on the Keene Electronics website just a bit pricey some times. Google and eBay are great resources too.

bk wrote: »

I was thinking of using a Harmony RF remote, I'm in an apartment, with the study where the gear is in the middle of the apartment, so I'm guessing it would work ok.

I have an 895, lovely bit of kit. There are always ways to make things work with a bit of lateral thinking, for a while I used an old video sender that had IR transmission solely to get IR signals into the attic. Actually a well placed mirror makes for great IR distribution :P

bk wrote: »

Yep, your setup sounds very nice and much more fun (and cheaper) then an installer.

Thanks, when it's finished it'll be great BTW it'll never be finished Best thing about building a system like this is your intimate knowledge of it and what it can do, I do keep a few wiring diagrams in my desk as my poor ole head doesn't store it that great any more!

bk wrote: »

FYI I went a different way for whole home audio, I went with Apple Airport Express device in each room, directly connected to speakers, they stream mp3's and Internet radio from itunes on my media center and I use an iPhone with the Apple Remote app to control it. Very nice, like a sonos setup at a fraction of the cost.

Nice, it's great when you can get all your gadgetry working together! As an experiment once I was able to control my AV equipment/ HA lighting through a Nintendo DS with a browser card, good fun but no real pratical application!

bk wrote: »

BTW Thanks for the info about the Pioneer SR, I've a Pioneer Plasma myself and I must get a new amp, so I'll keep this in mind.

My Pio Amp is 5 years old, some of the new ones look fantastic! Not only does the Amp pass on IR signals to the Plasma but also information and switching, so the Amp's display is mirrored on the screen, VERY handy if you decide to keep the Amp in a different room.

watty

Moved from Satellite, as this isn't really about Satellite at all.

glineli

Do you have to run a cat5 cable directly or can you use the ethernet over powerline sockets?

that would save me a lot of hassel!!!

gtg60

glineli wrote: »

Do you have to run a cat5 cable directly or can you use the ethernet over powerline sockets?

that would save me a lot of hassel!!!

Yes, you have to run a cable.

akaSol

Just a side line question but why are you constantly saying cat5 ?
Surely cat6 or cat7 would be better? And more practicable giving the 1080p limitation of cat5 and the change to HDMI in the next few months?

>Sol

bk

akaSol wrote: »

Just a side line question but why are you constantly saying cat5 ?
Surely cat6 or cat7 would be better? And more practicable giving the 1080p limitation of cat5 and the change to HDMI in the next few months?

Just a short hand, it is actually Cat5e.

Cat 6 is fine if you want to spend the extra money, but cat5e is sufficient for this application.

Despite the massive bandwidth capability of HDMI, must Blu-Rays only deliver a max 50mb/s so a cat5e cable which can carry up to 1GB/s should be sufficient.

Be careful with Cat7, it typically doesn't use a RJ45 plugs and therefore may not be compatible with these HDMI devices.

Pocky

Cat7 has other connectors than RJ45. That has something to do with bandwidth and frequency. RJ45 leaks like a sieve if it comes to high bandwidth. So does the Cat5/e cable itself.

HDMI 108p is possible over one CatX cable. Distance and quality depends on cable and connector. Even passive receiver is possible but again quality of products and cable/connectors.

HDMI plus IR over one CatX is possible and should be commercial available in a few month. Even HDMI & IR & UHF over one CatX will be coming soon

We are currently doing test and it looks fine (HDMI & IR over 100 metre with active receiver)