Sump nut stuck

mark1974

Hi all.
I have just TRIED to do an engine flush. Problem is, I cant release the sump nut. Any ideas as how to shift it. Ive tried wd40 and I have no heat gun.
Also, would it damage the engine to drive the car with the engine flush in it?
I'm Presuming the sump nut loosens anti-clockwise

Tipsy Mac

What tool are you using to open it?

From experience the more leverage you can get the better.

Hal1

It loosen's anti clockwise. If it still won't turn give a few persuasive light taps with a hammer a spanner, and leave the wd40 soak into it for a few minutes. That's the method I used to remove my sump plug when it was stuck.

Plug

Have the spanner or ratchet so that it is vertical and hit it a good slap with your fist. Is it a 19mm bung possibly a vw? Usually they are hard to get off when lieing under a car.

mark1974

Thanks guys.
Its a Saab 95.
Ive tried everythind at this stage, still no good. Think i`ll have to bring it to a mechanic with a ramp.
Is it safe to drive with the flush in it???

Plug

mark1974 wrote: »

Thanks guys.
Its a Saab 95.
Ive tried everythind at this stage, still no good. Think i`ll have to bring it to a mechanic with a ramp.
Is it safe to drive with the flush in it???

NO!

Get back down there and keep trying, it can be too hard, get a hammer like one of the lads said. Is it possible to get a picture up for us?

netwhizkid

The amount of broken sump nuts you would see is unbelievable, usually replaced with a sawn off spark plug! :rolleyes:

mark1974

Plug wrote: »

NO!

Get back down there and keep trying, it can be too hard, get a hammer like one of the lads said. Is it possible to get a picture up for us?

Sorry mate, cant get a pic at this stage.
Ive tried the hammer. The nut is almost round at this stage. I think the last guy must have used an air gun or somthing on it.
Ive even resorted to a vise-grips locked on and hit that with a hammer and still no good.:(:(

Plug

mark1974 wrote: »

Sorry mate, cant get a pic at this stage.
Ive tried the hammer. The nut is almost round at this stage. I think the last guy must have used an air gun or somthing on it.
Ive even resorted to a vise-grips locked on and hit that with a hammer and still no good.:(:(

Get a mobile mechanic to have a look at it.

mark1974

Plug wrote: »

Get a mobile mechanic to have a look at it.

Cheers plug,
I think its the only option at this stage.

sundodger5

there is a tool available designed for taking out rounded nuts. snap on/blue point do one but i am sure the local auto factor have something similar. they bite into the nut once it bites in get the biggest ratchet spanner, spanner on a spanner whatever has the most leverage.
has to give one way or the other.
To quote a wise man i knew "if it breaks it needed replacing"

draward

If you are good and carefull Heat the nut not to much done this on my VW garage told me thats what they will do replace bolt and washer

peasant

emm ...there is a limit to the force you should use on this.

Wrenching around too hard on the plug could damage the sump ...and then it get's really awkward and expensive.

If the plug won't budge at all, drilling it might be the way to go

Graham_B18C

peasant wrote: »

emm ...there is a limit to the force you should use on this.

Wrenching around too hard on the plug could damage the sump ...and then it get's really awkward and expensive.

If the plug won't budge at all, drilling it might be the way to go

Was exactly my thoughts, if you could get a drill with a small bit in it and drill through the nut then put something through the hole for leverage?

mark1974

I have a friend coming over tomorrow and he is going to use a mini angle grinder to put a couple of straight edges on the nut and then using a smaller size spanner(13mm down to 12mm) hopefully open it.;)
I really hope I dont have to go down the road of drilling it, peasant. That would be one messy job!

mark1974

Grahamo999 wrote: »

Was exactly my thoughts, if you could get a drill with a small bit in it and drill through the nut then put something through the hole for leverage?

I know a guy who cuts a slot in the head of bolts with a hacksaw if he cant turn them with spanners, and then turns it with a flat headed screwdriver.:)
Unfortunately for me I cant get a hacksaw to the bolt in question:(

CJhaughey

I would get an oil sucker and remove the oil/flush first.
Then refill with new oil/filter and take the car to a garage that can remove the bolt properly.
Hitting vicegrips with a hammer won't do anything except damage the head of the fastener.
You would be be better off with a sharp cold chisel and a hammer and try and move the nut that way.
Using a handheld grinder to try and make a nut into a 12mm sounds like wishful thinking to me.
These boyos are probably the best bet you have to get the bolt off yourself at this point.

Henry Ford III

Another option is to weld a good nut onto the bottom of the rounded one.

peasant

The common problem with stubborn sump plugs is this:

The plug is made from steel, the sump from aluminium alloy.
Screw the plug in with too much force and the hard steel eats into the soft alloy, destroying the thread in the process.
In some cases, even when you manage to get the plug out in the end, the thread on the sump is beyond rescue and the sump needs to be heli-coiled or replaced altogether.

Darragh29

Hi OP, this all comes down to having the right tools for the job. I've had this problem many times in the past, what you need is a 1/2 inch socket that makes a good tight fit on the sump nut and most importantly you need a power bar or a lever at least two foot long to get the required force onto the sump nut.

Also another thing is access, if you are struggling to get under the car and just even get at the sump nut, then you will often feel that you are working harder than you actually are on removing the nut where in fact you are really working at just getting access to the nut! Make sure the car is high enough off the ground so that you can get your body right in at the nut and that you can comfortably apply all your arm's force to the lever you are using.

Forget about WD40 for this job, what you need is a longer lever, maybe a bit more access to the site in question and make sure that you have a socket that connects night and tightly with the sump nut. Forget about a spanner for this job...

I can tell you as a mechanic with many years experience that these tasks are made so so so much easier with the correct tools for the job. The correct tools are the only difference between a job being a 30 minute enjoyable learning experience, or being something that takes up your whole day, ends up with your knuckles buckled and you being a broken person at the end of it!

EDIT: With regard to access, as always, make sure you are working safely at all times, ALWAYS use axle stands...

Darragh29

mark1974 wrote: »

I have a friend coming over tomorrow and he is going to use a mini angle grinder to put a couple of straight edges on the nut and then using a smaller size spanner(13mm down to 12mm) hopefully open it.;)
I really hope I dont have to go down the road of drilling it, peasant. That would be one messy job!

Just read this, sounds like my advice above came too late! OP this is exactly what I'm talking about when I'm advising you to always use the correct tools. What you're into now is pure hardship.

I can say for absolute certainty that if you had used the correct tools, you wouldn't be dealing with a butchered sump nut now... I'm not giving out here, but I learnt this lesson myself years back, you wouldn't believe how easily those really stubborn sump nuts will come off if you use a power bar with the correct size 1/2 inch socket... It's one of those little "tricks of the trade" that you pick up along the way...

voxpop

Good advice there from Darragh29 - Ive learned the hard way. Without the right tools a simple job can take half a day. Plus a long bar to give extra leverage is very handy.
I actually have one it boot for helping to get off wheel nuts (in case of puncture) - mine seem to weld themselves in place, event though they are coated in copper grease and torqued on.

Darragh29

voxpop wrote: »

Good advice there from Darragh29 - Ive learned the hard way. Without the right tools a simple job can take half a day. Plus a long bar to give extra leverage is very handy.
I actually have one it boot for helping to get off wheel nuts (in case of puncture) - mine seem to weld themselves in place, event though they are coated in copper grease and torqued on.

I learnt this so many times as an apprentice. When I was young, I was so eager to get into jobs, I'd often try to improvise and I'd be in the manure business before I knew it! Now no matter what it is, I have most of the tools I'll ever need but you'll always be stuck for something, so if I find myself without a tool, I stop there and then and go off and get the right tool because I've learnt that lesson the hard way!

Only recently I called out to a mate who had bought parts to service his car but had no tools and I called out to him and there he was struggling to squeeze under the car, fu*king and blinding at the sump nut, busted knuckles off the sump, the whole shebang!

I didn't have any tools on me as I had just popped into him for a cuppa, we spent 2 hours fannying around with a spanner trying to get a sump nut off, no luck, I went off and got my tools, it was off in 5 seconds!

DublinDilbert

Darragh29 wrote: »

I learnt this so many times as an apprentice. When I was young, I was so eager to get into jobs, I'd often try to improvise and I'd be in the manure business before I knew it! Now no matter what it is, I have most of the tools I'll ever need but you'll always be stuck for something, so if I find myself without a tool, I stop there and then and go off and get the right tool because I've learnt that lesson the hard way!

Only recently I called out to a mate who had bought parts to service his car but had no tools and I called out to him and there he was struggling to squeeze under the car, fu*king and blinding at the sump nut, busted knuckles off the sump, the whole shebang!

I didn't have any tools on me as I had just popped into him for a cuppa, we spent 2 hours fannying around with a spanner trying to get a sump nut off, no luck, I went off and got my tools, it was off in 5 seconds!

+1

For the DIY'er you'd be surprised how cheap reasonable quality tools are. You can pick up a rail of impact sockets, which grip on the six sides of the bolt rather than the corners for very little. Also build up a selection of 1/2" drive extensions / breaker bars etc.... Also if don't worry about having two of one thing, you never know when you won't be able to find something.

I was doing a HG on a Peugeot 307 a few weeks back and drove a 30 mile round trip to pick up an E14 torques socket with a 1/2" drive (a whopping €4 for it). I had an E14 with a 3/8" drive but didn't trust it for this job. The one with the 1/2" drive meant I could use all my breaker bars etc (& not mess around with reducers), it loosened/tightened the head bolts like a hot knife into butter....


The other thing you have to learn is applying the force in the right plane to the bolt/nut, so as not to make crap of it. This sometimes means its a two handed job, which some times isn't that easy if the car is too low.

meesa

Seeing that the nut is already destroyed the only way to remove it now is probably to use a stillson wrench (plumbers wrench) as these are made to grip pipework and get tighter the more pressure you exert on them....just before you go drilling etc.

Darragh29

DublinDilbert wrote: »

The other thing you have to learn is applying the force in the right plane to the bolt/nut, so as not to make crap of it. This sometimes means its a two handed job, which some times isn't that easy if the car is too low.

And this is where access comes into the equation again, especially if you are a bit bulky like myself! Make sure you are working comfortably, if you find you are growling and cursing at the car, then the chances are, the car need to go up another 6-12 inches. I'd strongly advise anyone doing their own regular service work to get a mid rise lift, you can get them for around a grand now in Ireland, and will lift your vehicle to waist height.

mark1974

Darragh, Your spot on.
My mate never called round with the grinder so I got the car to my mechanic and he had the nut of in 30 seconds:eek:
He used a hex socket bit which fitted perfectly, opposed to the regular one I was using which was slightly to big.
Definitely learned a big lesson. Memo to self: get right tools in future;)
Glad that's sorted.:D
Thanks everyone for the help.

Darragh29

mark1974 wrote: »

Darragh, Your spot on.
My mate never called round with the grinder so I got the car to my mechanic and he had the nut of in 30 seconds:eek:
He used a hex socket bit which fitted perfectly, opposed to the regular one I was using which was slightly to big.
Definitely learned a big lesson. Memo to self: get right tools in future;)
Glad that's sorted.:D
Thanks everyone for the help.

Seriously, if you can adopt this attitude to car maintenance, you will actually live longer! The stress involved in fixing problems caused by the wrong tools being used is beyond description! It's the difference between enjoying car maintenance and it making you absolutely regret putting a spanner near your car...

Glad you got the issue resolved OP...

Ferris

This was bought for me a couple of xmas's ago (I've seen them on special for é130) and I've used it constantly since and its served me well. Usually wouldn't touch Halfrauds but this is an excelent bit of kit for a DIYer.

After that I bought draper 1/2" and 3/8" sd dr torque wrenches for different torque wrenches as I'm always overtightening things.

And this is the best tool I own, its got me out of a lot of sh1t: