Any wonder the HSE is struggling?!

Sizzler

Was having a look through the publicjobs site and was honestly staggered by the amount of jobs available in the HSE at the moment on €200k+ salaries :eek: I actually gave up counting them

www.publicjobs.ie

These are all fairly highly qualified people to be fair but are these salaries the going rate for such roles? Seems a bit OTT considering the state of the health service.

This one is a particular favourite -

wrote:

Title: Professor/Consultant in Geriatric Medicine (Chair in Clinical Gerontology and Rehabilitation)
Location: University College Cork (18.5 hours per week), the South Infirmary Victoria University Hospital and St Finbarr's Rehabilitation & Continuing Care Unit
Salary: From €254,896.00 To €265,061.00

Thoughts?

WindSock

I would say there are more factors as to why the HSE is struggling. Namely unpaid A & E bills from you lot. The blame doesn't solely land on complete and utter mismanagement of our health services.

€200 Million Euros worth of laziness and greed from the public.

CountingCrows

A Consultant is at the very top of their field, how much do you suggest they get paid?

is_that_so

WindSock wrote: »

I would say there are more factors as to why the HSE is struggling. Namely unpaid A & E bills from you lot. The blame doesn't solely land on complete and utter mismanagement of our health services.

€200 Million Euros worth of laziness and greed from the public.

The problem is actually the HSE who have an appalling record of sending out bills and getting paid for them. Still waiting on my A & E bill from at least 12 months ago.

javaboy

Is the idea there not that they are lecturing in UCC for 18.5 hours a week but are full time otherwise? If it is a full time job, then 250,000 is about right for that level of expertise in that field. It works out at something like €150 an hour. Not silly money for someone of that calibre.

rs

ok, so the government runs the hospitals.

Lots of people owe the government money for A/E treatment.

The government runs the tax office and the welfare system.

Unpaid hospital debts should be subtracted from tax allowances, or subtracted from welfare payments.Not that f-ing complicated, it it.

But no, they waste money on debt collection agencies instead. That is mis-management!

Gone Drinking

When you think of the work they do, is it really THAT much? I mean they're qualified hero's.

Jeebus

If you get 600 points in the Leaving, work your bollocks of for 20-30 years to get qualified, become a consultant, etc etc, you deserve the pay you get. People underestimate the amount of work junior doctors do on a day-to-day basis, and in order to get qualified.

CountingCrows

OP gave up reading a 3 page list, I think that about sums it up :rolleyes:

jenzz

is_that_so wrote: »

The problem is actually the HSE who have an appalling record of sending out bills and getting paid for them. Still waiting on my A & E bill from at least 12 months ago.

Same here except its from March 2004 .. I gave up in 2007 after possibly 50 phone calls to about 37 different departments in 4 counties.

ejmaztec

Leave the medical bods out of it and just bulldoze some of the shiney-arsed pen-pushers instead.

Long Onion

It is silly money - Irish consultants are paid better than counterparts in most other countries dont't forget that they make much more than this from private patients also (and before it's said, I know there are some new contracts which prevent private work - these are pushing private patients into the public system). The HSE is a shambolic moneywaster and is terrible value for money but then again at the higher level of the civil service everyone is grossly overpaid anyone who says other wise is a civil servant or married one.

The whole system needs a radical overhaul. The idea that it's the fault of the people for not paying the bills is offensive - if a company does not collect its debts it closes down and it's the fault of the management. I would be in no rush to hand over my money for apallingly substandard treatment.

stop defending the indefensible.

allabouteve

Sizzler wrote: »

Was having a look through the publicjobs site and was honestly staggered by the amount of jobs available in the HSE at the moment on €200k+ salaries :eek: I actually gave up counting them

www.publicjobs.ie

These are all fairly highly qualified people to be fair but are these salaries the going rate for such roles? Seems a bit OTT considering the state of the health service.

This one is a particular favourite -



Thoughts?

You spend upwards of ten years in education, followed by years on low pay, work your way up to the top of your profession, with all the life and death responsibilites that come with it.

Then tell me how much you think a consultant should be paid.

is_that_so

jenzz wrote: »

Same here except its from March 2004 .. I gave up in 2007 after possibly 50 phone calls to about 37 different departments in 4 counties.

rs wrote: »

ok, so the government runs the hospitals.

Lots of people owe the government money for A/E treatment.

The government runs the tax office and the welfare system.

Unpaid hospital debts should be subtracted from tax allowances, or subtracted from welfare payments.Not that f-ing complicated, it it.

But no, they waste money on debt collection agencies instead. That is mis-management!

There is no evidence that it is deliberately unpaid.

A family member in the HSE explained that there is no actual standard fee collection process in hospitals beyond the usual health insurance and they only do that because it's done at source. Compare that with the doctor/dentist who won't even let you into the surgery until you've paid.

CountingCrows

is_that_so wrote: »

Compare that with the doctor/dentist who won't even let you into the surgery until you've paid.

Eh what, in Cavan maybe?

spurious

I'm a public patient and it never ceases to amaze me the number of people who do not turn up for appointments. The amount of wasted work there - getting charts out etc. and these people who are getting (and supposedly in need of) treatment don't bother their barney to show up, or ring to say they won't be there?

Granted, people can get ill, but there's no way all the no shows are due to illness - it's just laziness - put them right down the bottom of whatever list there is if they miss two appointments without bothering to ring - that's what I say.

A friend of mine is a speech therapist with the HSE and the number of days she sits there doing nothing because lazy ass 'parents' don't bother to keep appointments for their children. It's disgraceful, demoralising for the staff involved and a huge waste of money.

is_that_so

CountingCrows wrote: »

Eh what, in Cavan maybe?

Nope. In Drogheda, and it seems to be the norm, although the dentist let me in but wouldn't let me out without paying.

astrofool

The problem is too many admin staff. At least 3 times as many as other countries who have a functioning health service (e.g. France).

Just to repeat, the problem is not the doctors/nurses and their pay packets, but the army of pen pushers who don't heal anyone.

CountingCrows

jumpguy wrote: »

Only a CAO of a private company would be the only one to stand a chance of getting paid even near that.

Wrong, do some research.

Sizzler

CountingCrows wrote: »

OP gave up reading a 3 page list, I think that about sums it up :rolleyes:

LOL. Eh, no. I said I gave up counting the amount of 200k jobs, gave up after 15 I think.

allabouteve wrote: »

You spend upwards of ten years in education, followed by years on low pay, work your way up to the top of your profession, with all the life and death responsibilites that come with it.

Sounds like lots of other careers tbh and they will never get within an asses roar of that salary.

CountingCrows wrote: »

A Consultant is at the very top of their field, how much do you suggest they get paid?

Well considering the taoiseach is getting "only" getting €300k and is responsible for the entire country and its people, €260k for 37 hrs a week seems like a more than generous compensation package no?

jumpguy

CountingCrows wrote: »

Wrong, do some research.

Jayzuz I'm deadly far off! :O

javaboy

Sizzler wrote: »

Well considering the taoiseach is getting "only" getting €300k and is responsible for the entire country and its people, €260k for 18.5 hrs a week seems like a more than generous compensation package no?

It's not 18.5 hours a week. If you click on the brochure for the job you'll see this:

University College Cork (18.5 hours per week), the South Infirmary Victoria University Hospital and St Finbarr’s Rehabilitation & Continuing Care Units (18.5 hours per week)

So it's at least 37 hours a week.

KTRIC

You don't become a professor over night. It takes decades of hard work, this sort of salary is fitting

Sizzler

KTRIC wrote: »

You don't become a professor over night. It takes decades of hard work, this sort of salary is fitting

In fairness you dont become anything overnight except older

rossie1977

i read somewhere that irish medical consultants are the best paid in the world, outside of those in america that are self-employed, any truth to this i wonder??

Sizzler

rossie1977 wrote: »

i read somewhere that irish medical consultants are the best paid in the world, outside of those in america that are self-employed, any truth to this i wonder??

Even if they are people on here think they are worth every penny...

Looks like we have stumbled upon a recession proof 6 figure salary!

Sizzler

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/doctor-outraged-at-836425000--pay-rise-wont-be-taking-cut-1838265.html

Bit of a paradox here :rolleyes:

By Brian McDonald


Friday July 24 2009

A HOSPITAL consultant yesterday branded a €25,000 increase in his €225,000 salary as "an outrage".

But he said he will not offer to take a pay cut, because that is "missing the point".

Dr John Barton, a consultant physician at Portiuncula Hospital in Ballinasloe, Co Galway, said he had been bothered since he was notified of the salary hike under the new consultants' contract scheme.

The implementation of the contracts scheme is estimated to be costing the State €140m and yesterday Dr Barton said he felt very uneasy about such expenditure at a time of swingeing cutbacks.

Dr Barton, who stood for Fine Gael at the last general election -- he lost out on a seat in East Galway by 50 votes -- voiced his concerns in a letter published in a number of daily newspapers earlier this week.

"The Government has already passed this (increase) and yet we are reading about cutbacks at Crumlin Hospital while in my own institution we have a ward and a theatre closed," Dr Barton said. "Surgeons here are itching to do work, but they can't because of the cutbacks."

Dr Barton added: "We're crucifying hospitals and that affects patient services. I'm simply questioning the morality of all of this -- we are already very well paid people".

Biggins

As a person whom has had to tackle the HSE and those that run it, all I can say is that there is too many pen pushers siting around management tables and paper shuffling sub-departments. As someone has already stated, the whole system needs a radical overhaul done by an outside body devoid of political pressure from the gov and it's individuals who are looking to just see their end of things is covered.

The organisational state of the HSE at the moment is a sick joke. It should be lying in one of its own hospital bed! God knows it needs treatment for a long time now!

Caoimhín

The HSE are propping up the residential rental market, which costs us hundreds of millions.

They pay €520 or so (correct me if i am wrong about that figure), thus the price for renting accommodation never drops below that figure.

I believe this is more a political FF nod to the landlord middle class than any kind of welfare concern.

I would go and get the figures and data to back this statement up because i am too busy and cant be arsed.

Sizzler

Caoimhín wrote: »

The HSE are propping up the residential rental market, which costs us hundreds of millions.

They pay €520 or so (correct me if i am wrong about that figure), thus the price for renting accommodation never drops below that figure.

I believe this is more a political FF nod to the landlord middle class than any kind of welfare concern.

I would go and get the figures and data to back this statement up because i am too busy and cant be arsed.

Thats an excellent point. I think last year alone they spunked €400m on rent allowances for non-nationals alone, I'd imagine the same again if not more for Irish people...

irish_bob

CountingCrows wrote: »

A Consultant is at the very top of their field, how much do you suggest they get paid?

a salary comparable to the rest of europe , i.e , half of what they earn here

irish_bob

astrofool wrote: »

The problem is too many admin staff. At least 3 times as many as other countries who have a functioning health service (e.g. France).

Just to repeat, the problem is not the doctors/nurses and their pay packets, but the army of pen pushers who don't heal anyone.

replace army of pen pushers with army of fianna fail voters

the_syco

KTRIC wrote: »

You don't become a professor over night. It takes decades of hard work, this sort of salary is fitting

You become a politicain overnight, at the whim of someone thinking you "have the right stuff". It takes a while to become a surgeon.

Sizzler wrote: »

I think last year alone they spunked €400m on rent allowances for non-nationals alone

In my short stay in the hostipal, I never saw an Irish person to the sh|te work. It was always the foreingers.

Sizzler

the_syco wrote: »

In my short stay in the hostipal, I never saw an Irish person to the sh|te work. It was always the foreingers.

In the same vein I was in Beaumont a few months back and everybody was Irish. But thats OT here.

Caoimhín

the_syco wrote: »

In my short stay in the hostipal, I never saw an Irish person to the sh|te work. It was always the foreingers.

Aaahh, but you didnt see the "administration and management" teams working their poor arses off behind the scenes, what with all that tea to be drank, sickies to be pulled, waiting for the computer to be fixed and eating biscuits.
They are all Irish, Johny foreigner wouldn't have the necessary skill sets to do that job, what with their "good work ethic" and "attendance".