BJJ v MMA training

mirwillbeback

Hi,

Was just wondering what people's opinions are on the differences between the two ( apart from the obvious ) and the way they are thought.

I would have thought that maybe 70% of the styles are the same, as you do have the fundamental positions, and movement.

Obviously the difference is that the set ups in MMA may involve taking a good few punches while you work for it. It does appear that leg locks are far fewer in MMA as it often means giving up position and being in a bad spot if it doesn't work.

There is the flip side of that too, that if you get mount for example, it's a lot easier to set up an armbar if you are punching to the face as the defensive hands come up a lot easier ( in my opinion )

Over the years though, many many great jits players have been unable to replicate their successes in MMA - why?

Anyone have any opinions on fundamental differences?

dunkamania

mirwillbeback wrote: »

Over the years though, many many great jits players have been unable to replicate their successes in MMA - why?

Not liking getting punched in the face

Jason Mc

Jiu-Jitsu fighters with sloppy takedowns is probably the biggest problem.

JJ is only one part of the game.

cowzerp

The top BJJ players use the suit to great affect, in MMA this is gone from there game, also they have risks they dont train for such as been knee'd in the face, punched when holding someone in guard, The BJJ players who make good MMA fighters also train, Muay Thai, Boxing, and other aspects of MMA, if not they will lose in most cases against modern day MMA fighters.


BJJ as a single discipline is brilliant but not enough to make a great MMA fighter.

mark.leonard

The fundamentals are identical in BJJ and MMA, the pressure on the ground is greater because if you fluff it you get face punched.

Jason triangled the correct - in BJJ competition both fighters are heading for the ground, they each hope to be on top, but both are heading there regardless, in MMA you have to take the guy down when he may have no interest in going there, a far more difficult proposition, throw in strikes and it explains a lot!

mirwillbeback

mark.leonard wrote: »

The fundamentals are identical in BJJ and MMA, the pressure on the ground is greater because if you fluff it you get face punched.

Jason triangled the correct - in BJJ competition both fighters are heading for the ground, they each hope to be on top, but both are heading there regardless, in MMA you have to take the guy down when he may have no interest in going there, a far more difficult proposition, throw in strikes and it explains a lot!

Is that why there are so few leg locks in MMA - to do with difficulty of set up when being punched?

cowzerp

mirwillbeback wrote: »

Is that why there are so few leg locks in MMA - to do with difficulty of set up when being punched?

In BJJ the suit would mean its harder to escape leg locks but tbh leg locks are not that common in BJJ either, Maintaining position is probably even more important in MMA due to the GnP so fighters wont risk going for leg locks unless there quite certain they'll get it.

Jason Mc

Control the head - control the body

mark.leonard

mirwillbeback wrote: »

Is that why there are so few leg locks in MMA - to do with difficulty of set up when being punched?

I wouldn't dream of speaking for pro MMA fighters, but its a distinct possibility. There is an additional factor of folks being able to "tough out" some leglocks with the adrenaline (Don Frye vs Ken Shamrock, Frank Mir vs Ian Freeman) that they wouldn't be able to do for a choke and the like.

Nothingcompares

I've never fought in the cage but I've done a bit of BJJ.

I think there are too many differences between MMA and BJJ to compare. You can however, discuss the difference between grappling in a MMA fight and grappling in a BJJ fight.

Yes, I agree the fundamentals stay the same. But if your BJJ is weak it will be exposed in MMA. Furthermore, there is much greater risk and greater consequences to mistakes in MMA. You make mistakes on the ground and your opponent takes mount, you're in a very precarious position in both contexts, but it's much easier to recover in BJJ. You can be pounded out in 10 seconds for this mistake.

Also some of the strategies that make a sports jitjitsu guy very successful in competition may be things like ability to pull guard or the ability to use turtle defence. Imagine using turtle defence in pride rules? These subtle things make the difference between BJJ champion and BJJ black belt. So while Bj Penn may no longer win Mundials he will bash Marcelo Garcia in MMA even under mmaleague rules in my opinion!

arybvtcw0eolkf

Thread copied over to MMA.

mcdermott

cowzerp wrote: »

BJJ as a single discipline is brilliant but not enough to make a great MMA fighter.

Surely Royce Gracie is a one off then?

cowzerp

mcdermott wrote: »

Surely Royce Gracie is a one off then?

If you read the part i said before that i stated against modern day MMA fighters, Royce basically beat Kenpo lads and kickboxers etc..

He also got easily beat by Matt Hughes on his comeback and would lose to most fighters on the ufc roster at or near his weight now.

BJJ is not MMA.

roo1981

mirwillbeback wrote: »

I would have thought that maybe 70% of the styles are the same, as you do have the fundamental positions, and movement.

I'd agree with that-for no-gi\subwrestling BJJ anyways, all the fundamentals are the same. If anything, I've found that rolling with strikes is a lot more fun as it creates more openings for sweeps and subs (from top and bottom) that just wouldnt occur in a standard sub wrestling match.

I think the main reasons great 'pure' jits players have been unable to replicate their success are

1-Conditioning. BJJ just doesnt push your conditioning up the way other base MMA styles would, for instance wrestling or thai boxing. BJJ (and even sub wrestling matches) tend to be fought at a slow enough pace, where stalling is always an option once a dominant postion is earned-this just doesnt work in MMA, due to rules and strikes. The constant stand ups and change in phases between wrestling\striking\bjj can also play havoc with conditioning. Unless they have a solid strength and conditioning program\coach, typical BJJ training is not enough to compete in MMA at the top level...unless...

2-Game Adaption...most top level BJJ players cant adapt their game to MMA. I think the reason Mia's been so successful is that he forces his game on other fighters-he fights at his own pace and isnt afraid to jump guard, which a lot of other BJJ guys seem terrified to do. A lot of BJJ practitioners tend to train more in the Gi than no-gi as mentioned by Paul earlier, a lot seem to find it hard to adapt to not having grips and the extra traction the Gi provides.

Also, It seems most BJJ fighters seem to forget BJJ when they get punched, and start wrestling, which if you dont wrestle a lot, will knacker you out or worse, throwing haymakers-its called the Andy Wang syndrome and will more often than not get them landed on their arse against good strikers.

3-Fighters from other styles have all learned pretty solid BJJ defense-most MMA fighters, even over here, are at least at the blue belt level, which makes them tricky to pull off subs on.

Saying that theres a new generation of BJJ players coming up that are redefining MMA style BJJ. Mia is at the forefront, a few of the others are Dustin Hazelett, Aoki...theres more but I just cant remember names...

Jason Mc

BJJ is not the only grappling art.

There's a certain person from Russia who does sambo.

roo1981

Jason Mc wrote: »

BJJ is not the only grappling art.

There's a certain person from Russia who does sambo.

True, but combat sambo also includes strikes.

mark.leonard

Jason Mc wrote: »

BJJ is not the only grappling art.

There's a certain person from Russia who does sambo.

It doesn't really matter what its called, if the rules are similar then it will look the same, but even if the rules are different the basic positions and techniques are constant.

RNCFAN

Damien Maia and Shinya Aoki are great modern day examples of how far in MMA that BJJ skills can take you.

ginoginelli

RNCFAN wrote: »

Damien Maia and Shinya Aoki are great modern day examples of how far in MMA that BJJ skills can take you.

true.

Although not as common, its still possible for bjj players and other 1 dimensional fighters to excell in mma and become champions.

I expect roger gracie to make waves if he commits himself to the sport..

RNCFAN

ginoginelli wrote: »

true.

Although not as common, its still possible for bjj players and other 1 dimensional fighters to excell in mma and become champions.

I expect roger gracie to make waves if he commits himself to the sport..

Yeah, hope he gets a few warm ups in Strikeforce -