Cheap car services.

Plug

Barry Penders on the Dublin road are doing services for €99 inc. vat and a free car wash. Just thought I'd let ye know.

bennyob

Plug wrote: »

Barry Penders on the Dublin road are doing services for €99 inc. vat and a free car wash. Just thought I'd let ye know.

its only an oil change with a new filter. a full service is 199 and a diesel will cost 245......rip off imo.

i get my local mechanic and he will do the full lot for 100.

jiggajt

What is considered as a full service anyway? Is it:

Oil Filter
Fuel Filter
Air Filter
Plugs
Tracking?

Anything else?

Plug

A petrol is air filter, oil + filter, plugs and pollen filter.

A desiel is air filter, oil + filter, fuel filter and pollen filter.

They both include a look around the car and a wash inc. vat. Your mechanic will let you know what else it might need.

fabbydabby

There's loads of shít, you can't just say "this is what you get with a service"... your car needs what it needs. They should run a full diagnostic check with a computer. Then there's the timing belt, hydraulic fluid, software update, recall check, brake pads blah blah blah etc.

Get it done right if you care about your car. I am sure Pender's is grand but you won't get much these days for a hundred squid.

draward

you get what you pay for

jiggajt

I recently got a service done with a guy in Carlow and the day after i also got a new battery aswell. I drive a 01 1.6L Honda Civic.

Now since he did the service my car is getting about 50-60 miles extra per full tank of petrol. I've got services before that improved my fuel economy but never by this much.

Has anybody got any idea what he did to improve it so much so i can get it done again the next time?

Stephen

Your air filter might have been totally clogged with crap.

fabbydabby

He could have remapped it as well (REFERRED TO AS A 'SOFTWARE UPDATE') but thats generally with newer cars.

The local dealer remapped my golf at a service and it made some difference.

jiggajt

Dont think it was the air filter as i've changed the air filter myself before and it hasnt made that much of a difference. Dont think it was mapping either as he's not really that kind of a mechanic if you know what i mean. (Doesnt even have a mobile phone!)

Its hardly the fact that i have a new battery supplying better power to the plugs or something like that is it? Stupid question i know. Maybe i'll post this in the car maintainance forum or something!

fabbydabby

Plugs are powered off the alternator, and need only a trickle from a battery to generate the magnetic field.

Plug

jiggajt wrote: »

Dont think it was the air filter as i've changed the air filter myself before and it hasnt made that much of a difference. Dont think it was mapping either as he's not really that kind of a mechanic if you know what i mean. (Doesnt even have a mobile phone!)

Its hardly the fact that i have a new battery supplying better power to the plugs or something like that is it? Stupid question i know. Maybe i'll post this in the car maintainance forum or something!

As stephen said but it was probably a long time before you last got it changed.
A battery will make no difference at all to the performance of the engine.

Dylzer

New to this and dont know how to start a thread so kinda butting in on above topic, sorry. But can anyone tell me where i can get a new ignition switch for a vw mk4 gti?
Went to start car the other day turned the key and the sweet sound of silence filled the air.. All electrics work fine and when pushed started car drives perfect. Investigated issue and came to the conclusion that it is either this or starter motor. Possibly alternator i dunno?
I would assume i could find an alternator/starter motor pritty handy but would be great if i could gat a heads up on an ignition switch replacement an where i could get one? Thanks...
Living in Dublin area

fabbydabby

You should check out the www.vagdrivers.net forum, all sound lads there, and will answer any Q you have.

manus30

fabbydabby wrote: »

Plugs are powered off the alternator, and need only a trickle from a battery to generate the magnetic field.

plugs are not powered from the altetnator, there are powered by an electrical coil which ramps the 12v supply from the battery up to a few hundred volts. this hike in voltage causes the current to jump from the tip of the electrode on the spark plug to the receiver, which gives you your spark.
also, there is no magnetic field associated with spark plugs just electrical current.........
also, the altenator is for charging the battery not for powering spark plugs..........

fabbydabby

I guess my engine has an INVISIBLE Battery then! WOW! :rolleyes:

Here's me thinking I didn't have one.

The magnetic field I referred to is the field in the alternator to generate the power.

manus30

fabbydabby wrote: »

I guess my engine has an INVISIBLE Battery then! WOW! :rolleyes:

Here's me thinking I didn't have one.

The magnetic field I referred to is the field in the alternator to generate the power.

no, cars dont usually have invisible batteries. heres how the plugs really work, just in case i didnt explain it fully earlier.
. current is created in the altenator by a rotating magnet which turns in a set of conductors called the stator which in turn creates electrical energy from rotating mechanical energy. it does not need a "trickle from battery"
. this charges a battery. the battery supplies current to an electrical coil or coils which hikes the 12v supply up to thousands of volts.
. this high voltage will cause the electrical current to jump accross the spark plug tip.
the field in the altenator does not provide power to spark plugs, the battery does that. the altenator is used for charging the battery with fresh electrons.

fabbydabby

Hmm, obviously you didn't read my last post, so I'll quote myself again, for posterity:

The magnetic field I referred to is the field in the alternator to generate the power.

And then you said:

current is created in the altenator by a rotating magnet which turns in a set of conductors called the stator which in turn creates electrical energy from rotating mechanical energy. it does not need a "trickle from battery"

Well Mr Smarteypants, where do these "rotating magnets" in the alternator you speak of initially get their charge?

manus30

fabbydabby wrote: »

Hmm, obviously you didn't read my last post, so I'll quote myself again, for posterity:


And then you said:

Well Mr Smarteypants, where do these "rotating magnets" in the alternator you speak of initially get their charge?

well you did ask so: the rotating magnets initally get their charge by mechanical energy generated by the engine pulley. this rotational movement generates a current which charges the battery.
an altenator CANNOT power a set of spark plugs as you claim in your original post.
if you need anything else clarified or if you are still confused after already being told how spark plugs work, dont hesitate to ask. i'm glad to help.....

fabbydabby

So you are saying that an alternator DOES NOT initially get a trickle of current from the battery to generate the magnetic field then yes?

You are saying that the magnetic field in the alternator is generate purely from rotational motion and requires NO external charge to get it started yes?

Plug

fabbydabby wrote: »

So you are saying that an alternator DOES NOT initially get a trickle of current from the battery to generate the magnetic field then yes?

You are saying that the magnetic field in the alternator is generate purely from rotational motion and requires NO external charge to get it started yes?

He is right, its all about getting electricty to flow. Electricity is the flow of electrons. Magnets move these at close to the speed of light. A magnet creates a magnetic field(flux). If you want to see one of these get a magnet, put a piece of paper on top and drop iron filings on it. Its like a mushroom cloud on the north and south poles of the magnet.

An alternator DOES NOT initially get a trickle of current from the battery to generate the magnetic field, its the magnets that do this inside the alternator. Look at windmills, dams etc. They don't need batterys to get them started flowing electrons, its mechanical energy.


Battery is charged by the altenator. When the crackshaft position sensor tells the ECU(computer) where the pistons are i.e. just before top dead centre, The ECU then sends a small voltage supply to the coil where the spark is needed which jumps 12v to anything up to 40000v. That causes a spark in the cylinder.

manus30

fabbydabby wrote: »

So you are saying that an alternator DOES NOT initially get a trickle of current from the battery to generate the magnetic field then yes?

You are saying that the magnetic field in the alternator is generate purely from rotational motion and requires NO external charge to get it started yes?

yes thats exactly what i am saying, are you still having trouble understanding? if you need me to point out the errors your original post contains again let me know..

fabbydabby

Aside from my original post (I admit I was confusing the alternator with the magneto which, in my two-stroke engine, DOES power the spark plug as it is a pull-start engine without a battery), I am correct and you are wrong.

An inanimate coil with no charge in it CANNOT induce a current by rotating around another coil. Plug, the magnets you refer to are ELECTROMAGNETS, not permenant ones. In a car battery there must be in initial charge from the battery (a "trickle") to energeise the field coils so that when the alternator starts to rotate, its cuts the magnetic field.

So, Magnus30 perhaps your alternator defies the laws of physics! You're not working for Steorn are you?:D

Check out this wiring diagram:



When the ignition switch is closed, the field coils become energised from the battery. After the initial start, it is self-sustaining.

manus30

fabbydabby wrote: »

Aside from my original post (I admit I was confusing the alternator with the magneto which, in my two-stroke engine, DOES power the spark plug as it is a pull-start engine without a battery), I am correct and you are wrong.

An inanimate coil with no charge in it CANNOT induce a current by rotating around another coil. Plug, the magnets you refer to are ELECTROMAGNETS, not permenant ones. In a car battery there must be in initial charge from the battery (a "trickle") to energeise the field coils so that when the alternator starts to rotate, its cuts the magnetic field.

So, Magnus30 perhaps your alternator defies the laws of physics! You're not working for Steorn are you?:D

Check out this wiring diagram:



When the ignition switch is closed, the field coils become energised from the battery. After the initial start, it is self-sustaining.

Listen to what people are telling you. you are wrong yet again, and the more you try to disprove that you are wrong the more confused you seem to become.
people connect car altenators to wind turbines all the time to make a home made electrical supply, although altenators require high rpm to produce effective current.
read plug's post earlier and read mine yet again and you will understand how your statements are invalid. also, electromagnets are still magnets even when not powered by electric current. if a current if applied, they become stronger but they still function without current applied, thus they still produce electric current when rotated in a coil, understand now?
you obviously dont understand the drawing you have provided so if you are still unclear dont hesitate to ask, i will be more than happy to help you........

fabbydabby

Maybe you should tell to the folks at MIT that they are wrong too:

The field is connected to an indicator light or resistor and then to the battery's positive terminal. This supplies the initial charge that the rotor needs to produce electricity. It should only be connected during operation (to avoid running the battery down) and, in a car, is connected through the ignition switch.

http://web.media.mit.edu/~nathan/nepal/ghatta/altantics.html



Or if MIT doesn't float your boat, maybe Google docs might:

Unlike a dynamo, the alternator is not self-exciting at start-up. A dynamo has field
poles made of soft iron that hold a residual magnetism. The alternator field structure
has little residual magnetism and thus has almost no output unless field current is
supplied.
To get the alternator going, a tiny field current must be supplied. In most designs, the
instrument cluster warning light initially provides this current. With the Ignition
switch closed, current flows through the Lamp to the regulator and into the field
winding. If the dash warning light is burned out or disconnected, the alternator
probably won't begin charging.

Where do you think that current comes from manus eh? If not from the battery? Outer space?

How about THEM apples, beeyatch?

Plug

fabbydabby wrote: »

When the ignition switch is closed, the field coils become energised from the battery. After the initial start, it is self-sustaining.

When a battery is completely dead that even the lights won't come on the dash. It deffinently won't have enough power to turn the engine over with the starter, right?

Now you push your car to some slow speed, release the clutch in second gear and then press it down down quickly, the car starts! No electricity to start with but now you have all the electrons flowing all because the alternator started turning when you released your foot from the clutch.

Its magnets rotating around a coil that cause's electrons to flow(electricity);)

manus30

fabbydabby wrote: »

Maybe you should tell to the folks at MIT that they are wrong too:

The field is connected to an indicator light or resistor and then to the battery's positive terminal. This supplies the initial charge that the rotor needs to produce electricity. It should only be connected during operation (to avoid running the battery down) and, in a car, is connected through the ignition switch.

http://web.media.mit.edu/~nathan/nepal/ghatta/altantics.html



Or if MIT doesn't float your boat, maybe Google docs might:

Unlike a dynamo, the alternator is not self-exciting at start-up. A dynamo has field
poles made of soft iron that hold a residual magnetism. The alternator field structure
has little residual magnetism and thus has almost no output unless field current is
supplied.
To get the alternator going, a tiny field current must be supplied. In most designs, the
instrument cluster warning light initially provides this current. With the Ignition
switch closed, current flows through the Lamp to the regulator and into the field
winding. If the dash warning light is burned out or disconnected, the alternator
probably won't begin charging.

Where do you think that current comes from manus eh? If not from the battery? Outer space?

How about THEM apples, beeyatch?

listen to what people are saying.
the current comes from magnets rotating in a coil, that is scientific fact. if the rpm is high enough, the altenator will produce electricity. read my posts again and you might understand. read plugs posts too and it might help you. anyone can find quotes on the internet, but you need to know what you are talking about. you dont.......

Sky King

The following is an excerpt (verbatim) from the Air Pilots Manual Volume 4 by Trevor Thom ISBN 1-84037-155-2, page 225.

The Disadvantage of an Alternator
Unlike a generator, an alternator requires an initial current from the battery to create a magnetic field, which is necessary to 'excite' the alternator before it can produce an electrical current.
Therefore, an aircraft with an alternator must have a servicable battery, and a flat battery must be replaced. Even if you hand-swing the propellor to start the engine, the alternator will not come on-line unless the battery has at least some residual voltage.

Trevor Thom is a Physics lecturer and Flight instructor who holds a double degree from the University of Melbourne and a Diploma in Education.

Given that:

Fabbydabby:

So you are saying that an alternator DOES NOT initially get a trickle of current from the battery to generate the magnetic field then yes?

Manus30:

yes thats exactly what i am saying, are you still having trouble understanding?

It is clear now that Manus30 is incorrect and fabbydabby is correct, in this regard and indeed it is Manus30 who has trouble understanding because.
Manus30

the current comes from magnets rotating in a coil

NO IT DOESN'T!

You are thinking of a dynamo. The current generated by the alternator comes from a coil rotating in proximity to another coil. Bits of rotating copper CANNOT generate electricity, no matter how fast you go, unless one of them is energized with electricity to generate a magnetic field. This is called an electromagnet.

This "field coil" is initially energized by taking a charge from the battery, (as per Fabbydabby and the air pilots manual above).

Once the alternator is generating power, it can sustain itself without battery input. But if the battery is TOTALLY flat, you can't even clutch start a car, (as Plug suggested), or hand-swing the prop in an aircraft, for these reasons outlined above.

(But jump leads will work fine as once the engine is running the alternator can generate enough power to keep the field energized and to start charging the battery.)

Fabbydabby's explanation of the schematic above was also accurate, despite Manus30's remarks claiming otherwise. However Fabbydabby was wrong about the alternator powering the spark plugs, and Manus30 was correct in that regard.

Executive Summary:
In my qualified opinion, you are both know-it-all, know-nothing morons.

I trust that this clears up any confusion about how alternators work or where plugs get their spark or where babies come from.

Now will you all please shut the hell up and go on with your lives? There are people starving in the world...

Plug

kilkenny flyer wrote: »

NO IT DOESN'T!

You are thinking of a dynamo. The current generated by the alternator comes from a coil rotating in proximity to another coil. Bits of rotating copper CANNOT generate electricity, no matter how fast you go, unless one of them is energized with electricity to generate a magnetic field. This is called an electromagnet.

This "field coil" is initially energized by taking a charge from the battery, (as per Fabbydabby and the air pilots manual above).

An alternator works basically the same as a dynamo. you don't see cyclists with a dynamo and a car battery to get the electricity going, do you?
An alternator does not need an electrical trickle to get the electrons flowing. Its mechanic energy turning a coil close to another bit of coil that causes electrons to flow!

Ever hear of a knock sensor? they send a small voltage signal back to the ECU from little knocks from the engine. They don't need an electrical trickle to get them started sending voltage signals.

Also, you don't have to have a cocky attitude about it.

fabbydabby

you don't see cyclists with a dynamo and a car battery to get the electricity going, do you?

No because dynamos use PERMENANT MAGNETS you fcking re-tard... jesus, it's like banging my fkinghead on a wall here! How stupid are you people?

Ok tell you what: You're right.... I am wrong. OK? I am wrong.

Yep. OK Plug. Whatever you say. I admit defeat. You are correct and Myself, Kilkenny Flyer, Trevor Thom (multiple graduate and physicist), and M.I.T are all fking wrong.

Better write to the publishers of the flying book and tell them that this:

The following is an excerpt (verbatim) from the Air Pilots Manual Volume 4 by Trevor Thom ISBN 1-84037-155-2, page 225.

The Disadvantage of an Alternator
Unlike a generator, an alternator requires an initial current from the battery to create a magnetic field, which is necessary to 'excite' the alternator before it can produce an electrical current.
Therefore, an aircraft with an alternator must have a servicable battery, and a flat battery must be replaced. Even if you hand-swing the propellor to start the engine, the alternator will not come on-line unless the battery has at least some residual voltage.

is also a mistake and to correct it immediately because thousands of pilots train from those books and we wouldn't want them thinking an alternator needs an excitation charge from a battery now would we?

manus30

ok i admit part of my posts might have been slightly wrong and i apologise. however, i managed to get my points accross politely and to the point unlike some other unbelieveably ignorant people who like to insult others opinions...