Next bow up.

greysides

Bear with me please. I know that this queston comes up regularly on various forums/fora(?).

I've been using a KAP Prostyle since Christmas and getting on fine with it. It's been suggested it's time to buy an ILF bow. But which one..............?

My preferred style is barebow.

I'm keeping an eye out for second-hand risers, especially a GM. Three web sites which listed it no longer have it. So ebay is my new best friend.

Of risers in the range up to €200, the GM was the most proven and IMO the best value but it doesn't appear it is going to happen easily.

For a 25" riser this narrows the field to the SF Forged, the Samick Agulla and the Winstar II.

A particularly short 'short list'. Pity the Hoyt Excel isn't done in 25".

I saw a comment on an old thread here that the Winstar II shoots nicer than the Agulla; but comments on other forums suggest that the limb alignment adjustment and poundage adjustment interfere with each other.

( I've also read that there is a way to cope but....... Also, why is limb alignment necessary if manufacturing is done right? AFAIK, some current risers don't use it (Best zenith?) and older risers presumably never had it.)

I really don't like the two tone colour scheme of the Agulla and there doesn't appear to be a second hole in the window for a wrap around rest. The SF limb adjustment is the same system as the Winstar.

Now I have a very limited short list indeed. While my eventual riser will hopefully be a Best, Spigarelli or possibly even a Bernardini I don't necessarily want to get one now. I want it to be a prize for improvement.

What do you think?

Where am I gone wrong?

Aryzel

95% of the difference between risers is looks. Limb alignment, while useful in theory is very rarely needed, in 8 years setting up dozens of bows, mine and other peoples, i've never yet come across a case where I needed to adjust the alignment.

For barebow, a requirement is that the unstrung bow can pass through a ring that is 12inches(or was it 12cm?) in diameter, beyound that just pick what you think you'll enjoy looking at. You can't go far wrong with a Winstar riser, its definitely good enough to shoot 1300 fita's with (580 indoors). A bigger thing to focus on is what limbs to get with your new riser. If you are still progressing and aiming to move onto heavier limbs in the future, then don't spend too much, a basic set of cheap limbs will be plenty (KAP Winstorm). If you are settled at a poundage you like, then it can be worth getting a good set of limbs (W&W ProAccent for example). Of course it all depends on how much money you have to spend.

Panserborn

Barebow is a bit different to recurve, and if its BB you want to specalise in then you need a riser thats proven to be good without the toys. Obviously, the specific BB risers are the best (prob the Brenardini being the apex), but they are pricey!

In the past, the most popular risers to be modified to BB were the Matrix and the GM. The reason is that a BB riser should have lots of weight in the lower half of the riser (below the handle) to help control the aftershot without weights screwed into the hardpoints. The GM is heavy as it is, but you can easily use roofing lead around the lower half to boost the lower weight. The Matrix was a popular option as well because its a great riser, is fairly heavy, and there are plenty of "holes" in the lower half of the riser to fill with weight without having to stick it to the sides of the riser.

Carebear11

Aryzel wrote: »

For barebow, a requirement is that the unstrung bow can pass through a ring that is 12inches(or was it 12cm?) in diameter,

12" now that would be an interesting BB riser! It is 12cm to confirm.

If you are intrested in BB and need to add weight, I managed to make a 350 gram weight out of lead, a 22mm size socket and a bolt, fits through the ring and screws nicely into the riser and there is almost no kick off the riser (as in riser bottom end of the riser moving forward around the pivot that is your hand position).

greysides

Can anyone definatively state whether the Hoyt Eclipse is barebow legal (FITA and IFAF). I was told it was but web-research suggests not.

It wasn't on my original short-list but I tried one last night and, surprise, surprise, liked shooting it and its grip. I'm a bit put off by the 'bar' but liked the feel/weight of it. Its a pity the Excel isn't done as a 25".

ruiner

It's not. All the bows with tech bars are too wide to fit through the barebow rings.

9.3.1.2 Barebow divisions only:
The bow as described above must be bare, except for the arrow rest, and free from
protrusions, sight marks, marks or blemishes or laminated pieces (within the bow
window area) which could be of use in aiming. The un-braced bow complete with
permitted accessories must be capable of passing through a hole or ring of 12.2cm
inside diameter ± 0.5mm.

greysides

There are Spigarelli screw in barebow weights available from Alternative services in three weights- 190g, 250g and 350g. Delivery speed is good. Fits into a 5/16" bushing and is FITA legal.

http://alternativess.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/00288.5.1098679239872240637

Panserborn

Be careful with screw-in weights with barebow. The Spig ones are for the Spig riser and they go into the sides of the riser (legal) and not the forward-facing hardpoints. Barebows are allowed TFCs but not anything that a judge could consider a stabiliser. Often barebows with weights screwed into the forward hardpoints have been disqualified as they have been considered stabilisers. The Spig weights in a Spig riser are fine, but be careful with them in a non-Spig riser where they would be on the forward-facing section of the bow.

HansEbert

nordie barebows like peter mulligan are usin superforged sebastien flute risers, most likely cuz they're cheap effective and easy to set up barebow... of course me n panserborn know that well! just my 2 cents

greysides

I've acquired a hoyt GM and a Best Moon. Didn't intend to get anything over a basic riser but once the Moon was offered it was hard to refuse.

Currently setting them up and getting to know them and my SF GSF limbs- on sale at Alternative services for ~€90. Went for 30#, a conservative increase. No stacking I can determine.

The big surprise was how well balanced the light GM riser is with a 350g weight in the bottom bushing. As a bow to hack around woods it could be very nice indeed. Seems more contrary to set up nicely though. My Jazz 1916's seem to be working nicely enough with the Moon but are acting 'funny' with the GM. I suspect I need to tinker with the brace height/nock height/tiller. I'm not sure about the plastic grip. It seems 'hollow' and 'fragile'. I may replace it once funds allow. I wonder if the grip that comes as standard on the Eclipse would fit it (ergo grip, I think) as I liked that one when I tried an Eclipse.

The Moon with a nominal set up is shooting nicely. Doesn't seem to tolerate poor shots/releases though. With the full weight kit on board and a 190g weight in the bottom bushing it is nicely balanced, if a little heavy; on shooting the top barely tips back at all and the riser unit gives the impression of not moving at all. Removing the weights one at a time results in progressive tipping after shooting.

Curiously, the 30# limbs in the Moon are 'point-on' at 30m.....same as the 28# Prostyle limbs. I would have expected them to be different. Perhaps tuning will change this..........all I need now in the co-incidence of time, good weather and a 'full Moon'....................(see bigger photo below).

Panserborn

Nice looking bow!

With the GM and the weight on the bottom bushing, just ensure if you're shooting it at a FITA competition that the judges will allow it - strange as it may sound some will consider it a stabiliser.

In terms of the arrows, most barebowers spine their arrows a wee bit stiffer than the suggested shafts. Since ye shoot will all the fingers below the string, the arrow is not set up as it is for the Mediterrian style (arrow between the fingers). Also, the barebow style also means that that bow shoots best with fairly extream positive tiller on the bow so that the upper limb is set to a higher poundage than the lower one to componsate for all the fingers pulling the lower limb.

greysides

Panserborn wrote: »

With the GM and the weight on the bottom bushing, just ensure if you're shooting it at a FITA competition that the judges will allow it - strange as it may sound some will consider it a stabiliser.

I shall enquire into that locally. I'd not heard of it being a problem but I will look into it amongst those that have competed in barebow field.

In terms of the arrows, most barebowers spine their arrows a wee bit stiffer than the suggested shafts....... Also, the barebow style also means that that bow shoots best with fairly extreme positive tiller on the bow so that the upper limb is set to a higher poundage than the lower one to componsate for all the fingers pulling the lower limb.

Thanks that's useful info, especially about the tiller.