Do animals have souls?

philologos

So I was flicking through the Spirituality forum, and there is a thread on this subject currently. As I looked through Psalms before I had encountered an interesting passage:

Psalms 36:6 wrote:

Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains,
your judgements are like the great deep;
you save humans and animals alike, O LORD.

What do you think of this verse?
Will there be animals in heaven?

prinz

Jakkass wrote: »

Will there be animals in heaven?

I certainly hope so. Have a few dogs waiting for me .

PDN

Yes, I believe animnals have souls,

No, I don't believe there are animals in heaven.

philologos

What exactly do you think this verse means PDN? Just curious. I found it a bit strange when I read it first.

PDN

Jakkass wrote: »

What exactly do you think this verse means PDN? Just curious. I found it a bit strange when I read it first.

My Bible (NIV) says 'preserves' rather than 'saves'. I would take it as meaning that all life on earth is created, and sustained, by God.

prinz

PDN wrote: »

Yes, I believe animnals have souls,

No, I don't believe there are animals in heaven.

Where would you say animal souls go to then? Or do they cease on death..

philologos

PDN, thanks to bringing my attention to that. It seems the NRSV version that I mainly use differs from that of the NIV Study Bible, and KJV.

Psalm 36:6 (NIV) wrote:

Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the great deep, O LORD you preserve man and beast.

Psalm 36:6 (KJV) wrote:

Thy righteousness is like the great mountains; thy judgements are a great deep; O LORD thou preservest man and beast

From the commentaries they all seem to suggest that it is to do with the upkeep of animal and man on the earth rather than anything after life.

PDN

prinz wrote: »

Where would you say animal souls go to then? Or do they cease on death..

Yes, I would say they cease.

I believe that the biblical concept of the soul (Hebrew nephesh, Greek psyche) can simply refer to our life, or to our self awareness (emotions etc). Nephesh is used to refer to the lives of animals a number of times in the Old Testament.

prinz

PDN wrote: »

Yes, I would say they cease.

I believe that the biblical concept of the soul (Hebrew nephesh, Greek psyche) can simply refer to our life, or to our self awareness (emotions etc). Nephesh is used to refer to the lives of animals a number of times in the Old Testament.

Couldn't the same be said then for human souls? That they simply cease...

I would have thought that anything with a soul, that they possess it for a reason, that it's meaningful..... why create a unique soul only for it to cease? I would rather see creatures as having no souls at all, and simply dying, than having a God given soul which then just ceases.

As regards God preserving animals, wasn't that summed up in the bit about God providing for the birds of the air, and the lilies of the field?

Húrin

Why wouldn't there be animals on the New Earth?

PDN

prinz wrote: »

Couldn't the same be said then for human souls? That they simply cease...

I would have thought that anything with a soul, that they possess it for a reason, that it's meaningful..... why create a unique soul only for it to cease? I would rather see creatures as having no souls at all, and simply dying, than having a God given soul which then just ceases.

As regards God preserving animals, wasn't that summed up in the bit about God providing for the birds of the air, and the lilies of the field?

I think we are using the word 'soul' to mean different things. I believe that in its biblical sense it simply means having life and some semblance of personality (will, emotions etc). I see no reason why this shouldn't cease - even if it is unique (like fingerprints or snowflakes). I think you are using the word 'soul' in a different sense to refer to something eternal - that I believe is more properly describing our spirits.

Why wouldn't there be animals on the New Earth?

There may well be. I was simply answering the question about heaven, which I see as a temporary condition while we wait for the resurrection and the New Earth.

While there may well be animals on the New Earth, I don't see any reason for believing that these are old animals from the old earth resurrected or reincarnated.

Mickeroo

I'm really sorry to but in here, and i know this is off topic, but whats all this New Earth businness? Is it a literal ressurection/reincarnation on an earth much like our own or something else entirely?

PS: does anyone remember that movie All Dogs Go To Heaven?

PDN

Mickeroo wrote: »

I'm really sorry to but in here, and i know this is off topic, but whats all this New Earth businness? Is it a literal ressurection/reincarnation on an earth much like our own or something else entirely?

PS: does anyone remember that movie All Dogs Go To Heaven?

The expectation of early Christianity was for Jesus Christ to return at which time the heavens and earth would be destroyed and replaced by a new heavens and earth purified from sin. God would then dwell on earth in a holy city, the New Jerusalem, with the resurrected believers (Revelation Chapter 21). Heaven was seen as the place where God dwells, and where those who had already died would wait for the resurrection.

Gradually, in the 2000 years or so since Christ, this idea has, in many people's minds, been replaced with the idea that we live forever in heaven. This may be because the Church, at one time, became influenced by Greek philosophical ideas that saw the body as inherently evil and so exalted the idea of a purely spiritual existence in heaven.

Húrin

PDN wrote: »

Gradually, in the 2000 years or so since Christ, this idea has, in many people's minds, been replaced with the idea that we live forever in heaven. This may be because the Church, at one time, became influenced by Greek philosophical ideas that saw the body as inherently evil and so exalted the idea of a purely spiritual existence in heaven.

I'd say it's just because it's a simpler idea.

Fanny Cradock

Húrin wrote: »

I'd say it's just because it's a simpler idea.

I wonder why it became such a part of mainstream Christianity? Was it simply easier to teach? I dare say that there nave been many in position of authority throughout the wider Christian church who would have been oblivious to the notion of a new heaven an a new earth. Indeed, I always thought that disembodied souls floating around heaven (in a Platonic dualism sort of way) was the promise of Christianity. It is something that doesn't seem all that exciting to me.

Weidii

Jakkass wrote: »

Will there be animals in heaven?

If there were no animals in heaven there'd be no humans

sukikettle

Psalm 36 refers to the flood..Christ comes back for a bride not to play fetch and biblically those without a crown...the swirl on top of every human head doth not a soul have.Besides in victory we lay our crowns at His feet in honour of Him.

dyl10

The verse is about the respect for all life.
No, animals don't have souls.