Toll dodging on the N4

westtip

Driving back west early this morning I decided to come off the N4 at Kilcock and follow the old road to Kinnegad and toll dodge, really just to see how much time difference it made. I left Greystones at 6.15 am and at that time of the morning can usually make the Covert just past Mullingar on the M4 within an hour, and yes I do break the speed limit on the Motorway. Toll dodging and going down the old route it took me ten minutes over the hour to reach the covert - so that means 2.90 to save ten minutes had I gone on the motorway. Obviously the Motorway is a far easier drive and will be my preferred option as an occassional user - I met a Lot of traffic coming east towards Dublin - mostly cars early morning commuter traffic I guess I just wondered how many regulars travelling along the N4 route in from Mullingar, Kinnegad, Enfield areas - if they are doing it everyday do toll dodge; at 5.80 a day return trip, 29 euro a week it soon stacks up - there must be a lot of ye at it? (toll dodging that is)

jhegarty

How much extra petrol did you use ?

Capt'n Midnight

If you had kept to the speed limit and the wide parts of old road with good visibility were 100Km/hr, how much time do you think you would have saved ??

Me I reckon on about 20 minutes to drive on the old road heading west.

And the white elephant of a bypass isn't any quicker than going through the town since it's only 60Km/hr and has traffic lights too. Is it the biggest waste of money based on the amount of traffic it has when you consider that there are alternative routes on either side ??

Capt'n Midnight

jhegarty wrote: »

How much extra petrol did you use ?

Most cars are more fuel efficient at 80kph than at motorway speeds and the alternative route is very flat so depending on driving style you might just save fuel It's unlikely you would burn an extra 2 half gallon / 2.5L on such a short journey.

motorway would save time, brain power ,
and slightly lower risk of death , but our motorways don't have the same % reduction in accidents as in other countries where moving to a motorway provides a big decrease in risk, ours are a bit better than Finland's normal roads
also that stretch of road is fairly good and main risk I would guess is nutters trying to pass out when it isn't safe to do so

westtip

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

If you had kept to the speed limit and the wide parts of old road with good visibility were 100Km/hr, how much time do you think you would have saved ??

Me I reckon on about 20 minutes to drive on the old road heading west.

And the white elephant of a bypass isn't any quicker than going through the town since it's only 60Km/hr and has traffic lights too. Is it the biggest waste of money based on the amount of traffic it has when you consider that there are alternative routes on either side ??

I kept pretty much to the 100 kph/60mph on the old road, and did swing around enfield - and noted I ended up in front of a white van that was in front of me and went through the town. Its on the motorway I would pelt along probably about 80/85 mph so I probably used less fuel on the old road, but it was quiet going west, I didn't really get held up at all, and I was surprised at how little time I would have saved on the motorway (I reckon between 10 and 15 mins), it was just a test on my part, I don't commute on the route daily, and would normally use the motorway to get back out to the west - obviously it is faster, it is safer and it is less stressful, I really just wondered about folks doing this journey every day and how many are choosing not to use the motorway, as I said in the OP, I was surprised at the volume of traffic heading east towards Dublin, especially between Enfield and Kinnegad where the motorway is a clear choice that is being avoided, I just wonder by how many on a daily basis as it is high cost over a period of time - getting on for 2 grand a year from your net income if you commute on it daily, it all stacks up.

Tech3

Next year is going to be painful for people who are commuting from Dublin-Cork.

Two tolls along the route when the M7/M8 scheme is done. Then there is a third if the M50 is used!!!!

Jip

But in all honestly how many people do you reckon would commute between Dublin and Cork ?

KevR

Jip wrote: »

But in all honestly how many people do you reckon would commute between Dublin and Cork ?

I doubt anyone does a full-time Cork-Dublin commute but I'm sure there are a fair few people who would drive between the 2 cities regularly and the 2, maybe 3, tolls will be a bit painful for those people.

Will be the same situation for Galway-Dublin traffic. 2, possibly 3 tolls. It could be €16 or more in tolls for a return trip.

OldmanMondeo

I used the M4 / old N4 route every day, Kinnegad to Red Cow, I only ever use the toll road when I am late. As pointed out, the speed limit on the M4 is 120kph, the old N4 (R407 I think it is called now) is only max 80kph.

The M4 has taken a lot of traffic off the old route, as most people using would usually head home west for the weekend. I used to que for nearly 2 hours at Kilcock before the motorway opened.

westtip

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

I used the M4 / old N4 route every day, Kinnegad to Red Cow, I only ever use the toll road when I am late. As pointed out, the speed limit on the M4 is 120kph, the old N4 (R407 I think it is called now) is only max 80kph.

The M4 has taken a lot of traffic off the old route, as most people using would usually head home west for the weekend. I used to que for nearly 2 hours at Kilcock before the motorway opened.

Yes exactly what I thought and a lot like ye - my guess is for those travelling in and out from your neck of the woods the old N4 is less of a mare than it used to be as a regular commuting route, as said above if I use the N4 I tend as an occassional user to use the Motorway, but just toddled along the old N4this morning to see what it was like - actually it was ok and if I'm not in a hurry woud gladly save the 2.90 and stick the "saved money" into extra diesel in the tank; or towards a breakfast at Mother Hubbards. There were a couple of trucks I passed out this morning and both were private hauliers - suggested to me that there are a few truck drivers pocketing the toll rather than going down the motorway.

I wonder what the critical price sensitive point is for most drivers on this stretch of road. At what price point do commuters say sod it - I will stick to the old road.

Tech3

Jip wrote: »

But in all honestly how many people do you reckon would commute between Dublin and Cork ?

Its 17K AADT on most parts so some might be travelling a few days a week but whoever does is crazy. In general if the M7/M8 is 1.90 then it shouldnt be too bad. 3.80 in total one way.

mack flyer

i work in maynooth and live in the midlands and if i was to use the toll every day it would be 30 euro a week so i gladly drive the extra few minutes

Tech3

westtip wrote: »

I kept pretty much to the 100 kph/60mph on the old road, and did swing around enfield - and noted I ended up in front of a white van that was in front of me and went through the town. Its on the motorway I would pelt along probably about 80/85 mph so I probably used less fuel on the old road, but it was quiet going west, I didn't really get held up at all, and I was surprised at how little time I would have saved on the motorway (I reckon between 10 and 15 mins), it was just a test on my part, .

100km/hr on a 80km/hr road
135km/hr on a 120km/hr motorway

Why?

Idbatterim

for me, 2.90 is pretty much the limit im prepared to pay, anything over 3 and id use the old road, if i wasnt in a hurry...

westtip

tech2 wrote: »

100km/hr on a 80km/hr road
135km/hr on a 120km/hr motorway

Why?

100kph on the clear sections of the old N4 when the road is clear is not too bad, the speed limit seems to vary on that road - but between 55 and 60 mph does not seem excessive; of course have to slow down through places like Clonard and around the Ennis bypass. As for 135 kph on a motorway - I don't see that as a problem on a clear road and if conditions suit, plenty would go past you when travelling at that speed.

mack flyer wrote: »

i work in maynooth and live in the midlands and if i was to use the toll every day it would be 30 euro a week so i gladly drive the extra few minutes

Confirms what I thought - there must be a lot of people toll dodging - but then the old N4 doesn't appear to be the mare it used to be from Kilcock to Kinnegad thanks to the relief from the new road, and as you say 30 a week does mount up.

serfboard

Interesting discussion. From the NRA stats, from a high of 23.6K last August they were down to 17.6K this January - a loss of 6K vehicles and at least 17K per day, or over 6 million per year :eek: in revenue.

With all the savings that people are trying to make nowadays, wouldn't you think that they'd drop the price a bit, and more people would use it?

Imposter

I wouldn't be calling it toll dodging! You are given 2 options and you choose the one that you think is best for whatever reasons. Same goes with taking the long way round in Enfield or going through the town!

bladespin

Jip wrote: »

But in all honestly how many people do you reckon would commute between Dublin and Cork ?

I did it about twice a week for 6 years.

mike65

Toll avoidence, not toll evasion

Damomayo

jhegarty wrote: »

How much extra petrol did you use ?

The two journeys are the same lenght so the only reason motorway is quicker is higher avg speed. Cruising at 120Kph(avg) over 20 miles compared to 80Kph(avg) on old road
Car is a lot more efficent at 80Kph and IMHO 2.90 is a complete ripoff for 20 miles of a dual carriageway. Do that return journey 1-2/week and migth only pay toll twice a year max

Mailman

Since the start of '09 I have made a concious decision not to use the tolled portion of the M4. I divert at Kilcock and join the N6 after Kinnegad.
The RPM on my car never climbs above 2000RPM on the old road.

The jump from €2.40 thru €2.50, €2.70 and then €2.90 happened much too quickly for my liking.

I will only use the new Motorway on days when I'm in a hurry, the weather is very bad or if I've got passengers on board.
I'm happy to inconvenience myself by 10 minutes but won't inconvenience traveling companions.

Saruman

tech2 wrote: »

100km/hr on a 80km/hr road
135km/hr on a 120km/hr motorway

Why?

Because until the motorway opened and the road was reclassed as an R road, the N4 was mostly 100kph (60mph before that).

It was only when the motorway opened that the 80kph speed limit applied and the only reason for that is that this is the new default speed limit for non national roads, So unless the county councils acted to fix the speed limit, it stays at 80kph. This applies the other way too, a laneway might also have an 80kph limit if the council do not take control of it.