Family Event

PhysiologyRocks

Went to a family event last night.

I was amazed at the number of people there who gave me what can only be described as a right boll$@*ing because I don't, as a medical student, 100% embrace alternative medicine.

Also some were quite cross, apparently with me, about what they perceive to be greedy doctors. Firstly I disagree with my family on this one. Secondly, even if I did agree, how could it possibly be my fault.

Anybody else come across this kind of thing? How did you deal with it?

Carsinian Thau

I get it too.

My solution won't help you though: I no longer attend family events. And the ones that I go to, I avoid the ones who talk about anything related to med.

That second bit might help you though. Talking about better topics. For example, I talk to my cousin about his army training or to another cousin about how she's finding her genetics course.

Nice username btw.

PhysiologyRocks

Ta!

Yeah tried changing subject, not as easy as it may seem. Might have to look into your solution...

Good to know I'm not alone in this (wipes gentle tear from cheek).:D

AmcD

Just to warn you, this gets much worse. Once you qualify you will be fair game for any relative who has a medical problem and who wants you to hear all about it. Be firm from the start and establish boundaries. Don't get sucked into giving medical opinions, writing prescriptions etc. It is a bad idea to give advice or treatment to your own family.

PhysiologyRocks

Oh dear! I suppose it's bound to get worse.

It's bad enough as it is. I spend half my time explaining that I'm not allowed to give medical advice.

My most-used sentence has been "See your GP".

charlieroot

I can do one better. Two weeks into medicine - a friend's Dad quizzed me on what he should do about his chronic back pain (had never mentioned it to his GP, had been going on for years).

PhysiologyRocks

charlieroot wrote: »

I can do one better. Two weeks into medicine - a friend's Dad quizzed me on what he should do about his chronic back pain (had never mentioned it to his GP, had been going on for years).

That's kind of brilliant!

Carsinian Thau

PhysiologyRocks wrote: »

Oh dear! I suppose it's bound to get worse.

It's bad enough as it is. I spend half my time explaining that I'm not allowed to give medical advice.

My most-used sentence has been "See your GP".

I have to use "I don't know, see your GP".

My family are pretty good for accepting that (but this may have more to do with the fact that my parents may think I'm an idiot).

I have a friend who just won't take no for an answer. Even when I was in Pre med she thought I could still give advice. Thankfully she nearly always had an assignment that was due or overdue that I could remind her of so I could get some peace (or escape from her).

It is awful though.

I had to listen to "all doctors are selfish bastards" for about 4 hours last Christmas. I zoned out after 30 mins and just let my aunt, uncle and other aunt vent at me for "crimes" I wouldn't even know about yet, never mind have been able to commit.
Not the best way to spend Christmas Day really. And to think that they were always so polite to me before I started the course.

RobFowl

I tend to refuse point blank. Has caused alot of friction over the years especially with the Ma. "whats the point of having a doctor in the family blah, blah ,blah"

PhysiologyRocks

Close relatives are harder to deal with. I often get the "But I'm your mother/brother etc..."

I knew someone who bought OTC antihistamines in Spain and wanted me to translate the info leaflet. I refused. Even though they were available over the counter here too, if anything went wrong and she had to see her doctor, she would have said that I said they were okay, even though I'd never given any advice.

One woman thought she may have a heart problem (very likely based on age and family), but refused to see her GP for ages because a certain yoga exercise apparently alleviated her symptoms. Thankfully she went to him about something else last week and mentioned it. But she wanted me to tell her that the yoga was a good idea.

And my aunt believes that alternative medicine is better than conventional medicine. And hates that I believe otherwise. She also advised me to always question authority. Yeah, I'm sure the consultants would really love that! And my mother thinks most doctors are all really lazy and seems to believe in the whole "God Complex" thing.

Svalbard

PhysiologyRocks wrote: »

Close relatives are harder to deal with. I often get the "But I'm your mother/brother etc..."



And my aunt believes that alternative medicine is better than conventional medicine. And hates that I believe otherwise. She also advised me to always question authority. Yeah, I'm sure the consultants would really love that! And my mother thinks most doctors are all really lazy and seems to believe in the whole "God Complex" thing.

Yip, I get the whole "we put you through college, you owe us free medical advice for life" even though when I reluctantly try to, it usually descends into an argument which is not how I like my consultations to turn out normally.

As for your aunt, just tell her you practice evidence based medicine and if an RCT indicated a 50% reduction in cerebrovascular accidents with jelly-beans versus aspirin then I'd be all for it.
On second thoughts, your aunt sounds crazy, probably best just to avoid her.

If it all becomes too much then try working in a speciality none of your family would have any use for, like public health or something.

CathyMoran

My lovely sister in law is a SHO and we would never dream of asking her for medical advice, we would update her on our health but that would be the same with any family member...I do not understand the logic of some people and am sorry that you are going through this.

PhysiologyRocks

Svalbard wrote: »

.If it all becomes too much

It's not too much, but I could well do without it!

Some family members are great, not a problem at all. Willing to discuss other topics and at least polite.

I have no problem listening to health-related stories and the like. As long as I'm not expected to advise/explain my belief in scientific fact/listen to medical abuse.

JuliusCaesar

I just try to not get involved. Everyone knows my views on 'alternative medicine'. I get the occasional "This worked brilliantly for my friend" but I keep asking for the evidence, rather than anecdotes. The word 'detox' and phrase 'getting rid of the toxins' causes my head to explode. I only once *nearly* intervened when a female relative treated her baby with some alternative crap for a chest infection. Little did she know I was monitoring the poor little thing, and would have had no hesitation in insisting on proper medical advice. As it was, baby recovered on its own.

Why oh why do husbands sit back and let the wives be the experts on family health, even when they have some scientific training???? Vegan babies, ffs.

PS a very proper uncle once described his bowel movement to me in excruciating detail, before I could gasp out See your GP! I don't want to know!

bleg

nothing like an auld detox after a weekend on the beer

AmcD

CathyMoran wrote: »

My lovely sister in law is a SHO and we would never dream of asking her for medical advice, we would update her on our health but that would be the same with any family member...I do not understand the logic of some people and am sorry that you are going through this.

I wish I was related to a family that understood why it is inappropriate to get a family member involved in medical care. The following points bug me most:

1. You will be used as a source of free medical advice, which will be clearly stated: "no way am I wasting €50 euro bringing my child to my GP when I can make you see him for free". You will be appreciated in the same way as a tesco voucher for €5.

2. This advice will be only selectively listened to: "Will ye ever feck off, no way am I having a smear test, stop being a cow and just write me a script for the pill".

3. You may be a good doctor, but you can't always be right. God help you if you get something wrong with a family member. Luckily I advised a family member what was the most appropriate route to get his back pain seen to. He is being treated for metastatic cancer now. I would not have thought of this diagnosis and would have treated him as common garden back pain.

4. You will be exposed to sights you would rather miss, as boundaries are tossed aside. I recently turned down the opportunity to see my brother's pilonidal abscess. Unfortunately my granny would not listen to my protestations as tights came down and ulcer dressings came off.

5. Families love telemedicine i.e. ringing you from abroad and demanding a consult. This is a bad idea. Avoid.
I have also had to endure prolonged text conversations about the minutiae of a sister's medical treatment - (why not just take your own GP's advice? Why do I have to get involved? If you want to ignore your GP's advice why do you have to seek my approval?)

6. My mother-in-law expects me to have detailed discussions on freaky conditions straight off the Discovery channel. She is astounded when I can't discuss osteopetrosis/Marble bone disease. "Surely you must know a few patients with this?"

bleg

AmcD wrote: »

1. You will be used as a source of free medical advice, which will be clearly stated: "no way am I wasting €50 euro bringing my child to my GP when I can make you see him for free". You will be appreciated in the same way as a tesco voucher for €5.

I don't see anything wrong with giving your family medical advice for free provided it's safe to do so yada yada yada.

PhysiologyRocks

bleg wrote: »

I don't see anything wrong with giving your family medical advice for free provided it's safe to do so yada yada yada.

Our lecturers tell us not to, no matter how certain we might be.

Even if we were allowed to, (and even once I qualify), I don't keep a great deal of diagnostic equipment at home.:)

Again, even once I qualify, if any mistakes were made, it could potentially get very messy with family involved.

I realise your comment is probably aimed more at the qualified doctors, but I imagine I'll stay wary!

tallaght01

I give medical advice to my immediate family. There's 5 of them, and they are very sensible. They know we can all make mistakes. They go to their own GP for most things, as my clinical background is paeds.

As a 2nd year medical student, a neighbour pushed her kid under my nose after she'd fallen, and asked me was her arm ok. It didn't look like there was anything wrong with it.I told her it looked OK, but she should go to A+E if she was worried. She didn't, because she took my word. the pain didn't go away and after a few days she went and got an x-ray. Tiny fracture. But she still hasn't forgiven me to this day.

People can be nuts.

Re: the hassle from family. I found it gets a bit better when you qualify. Because you can remind them of all the family events you missed because you were working, and that can show them that your life is pretty tough.

Plus my folks go mental at my rellies when they act up about that stuff. My parents have seen first hand what we have to sacrifice in this job, and they really let fly when they see someone having a go about greedy doctors.

I remember being at a christening once, and I'd literally come off a week of nights. This miserable bastard relative of mine came straight over to me and start asking me about his medications. Dad told him to get lost. Told him to let me enjoy my time off, which was great, as I'm too polite with people.

RobFowl

bleg wrote: »

I don't see anything wrong with giving your family medical advice for free provided it's safe to do so yada yada yada.

The medical council don't agree !

"5.5 Doctor’s Families
Except for minor illnesses, it is not considered advisable for doctors to treat or to issue prescriptions or certificates for themselves or for members of their families."

DrIndy

The furthest I have gone is to issue a continuation script for an antidepressant for 3 weeks only until the partner of a friend got to their psychiatrist again (i made sure that they had been on the same dose for a considerable time before grudgingly issuing it).

I have treated the odd chest infection and UTI after insisting getting a full history and on examining them first (my mates know that medical stuff is kept strictly confidential by me all the time).

I think its a dangerous precedent to start - i know GPs are expensive for a minor thing and I can issue prescriptions in a pub - but is it safe? No.

IvyTheTerrible

AmcD wrote: »

Just to warn you, this gets much worse. Once you qualify you will be fair game for any relative who has a medical problem and who wants you to hear all about it. Be firm from the start and establish boundaries. Don't get sucked into giving medical opinions, writing prescriptions etc. It is a bad idea to give advice or treatment to your own family.

I have the opposite problem. My OH's grandfather is a doctor and anytime I have a problem and tell my oh that I'm off to the GP, oh but let grandad have a look at you! It's hard to convince the OH and grandad that, no, I would prefer if my medical stuff is kept to myself.

Dr Galen

I'm a nurse. Wife's a nurse. Mother and granny are/were nurses. so it's mainly not a problem on my side. can be a little messy on her side though. certain family members won't listen when we say go and get checked out. rarely get asked though for specific advice.

Have been in a similar situation in Tallght01 were a neighbour turned up at the door, saying that the hubby was having chest pain. Legged it in, took one look and called ambo. why she thought it was a better idea to wait for an hour and then knock into me I dunno.

On a slightly different matter, I've been on 2 recent flights where they've done the whole is there a doc or nurse on board thing. That was a bit scary, 38,000 feet with a lady with a low blood sugar. Diabetic. Had rushed out of the house at 6am to get the plane, nothing to eat at all, sugars dropped post insulin, which she took in the airport. Luckily enough, there was a medical doc on board too. So we got her sorted out fine.

CathyMoran

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

On a slightly different matter, I've been on 2 recent flights where they've done the whole is there a doc or nurse on board thing. That was a bit scary, 38,000 feet with a lady with a low blood sugar. Diabetic. Had rushed out of the house at 6am to get the plane, nothing to eat at all, sugars dropped post insulin, which she took in the airport. Luckily enough, there was a medical doc on board too. So we got her sorted out fine.

Surely she would have had glucagon with her though? I always travel with my husband who knows how to give the stuff.

Dr Galen

what we said and in fairness was the doc's first question.

she just didn't seem to equate feeling crap and sick, with her BSLs. Was only after about 5 mins of talking to her that it came out that she was diabetic. Unfortunatley CathyM not everyone is as clued into themselves as you. Would be great if the med-alert type bracelets were more common here

CathyMoran

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

what we said and in fairness was the doc's first question.

she just didn't seem to equate feeling crap and sick, with her BSLs. Was only after about 5 mins of talking to her that it came out that she was diabetic. Unfortunatley CathyM not everyone is as clued into themselves as you. Would be great if the med-alert type bracelets were more common here

Am guilty there myself but if you look in my bag at all you would see a wallet with a diabetes federation card, also glucagon (a dead give away), blood testing kit and strips, insulin pens...

I hope that you are allowed to look in someones bag for clues (sorry, not aware what the situation is)...

My husband is a first aider and has been called on numerous occasions like that.

I think that it would be unfair to ask a doctor/nurse relative for advice as they are very emotionally involved with the patient.

Dr Galen

CathyMoran wrote: »

I hope that you are allowed to look in someones bag for clues (sorry, not aware what the situation is)...

what do think this is? an episode of House?

CathyMoran

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

what do think this is? an episode of House?

I dont watch that, sorry...the husband corrected me in the interim in any case...we have been in so many cases where his first aid experience was used it is crazy...

I know that one of my friends who is a doctor finds it very hard that I have a few serious/long term illnesses so I try and keep away from those topics if at all possible, though it is hard to avoid blood testing/taking insulin. I do admire all the work that you do, please keep it up.

bleg

RobFowl wrote: »

The medical council don't agree !

"5.5 Doctor’s Families
Except for minor illnesses, it is not considered advisable for doctors to treat or to issue prescriptions or certificates for themselves or for members of their families."

That's completely right but it says nothing about not giving advice.

AmcD

bleg wrote: »

That's completely right but it says nothing about not giving advice.

Of course, you are right- general advice is ok e.g. you shouldn't smoke if you are on the pill. But it can easily stray into pill scripts, requests for champix etc.
You can't have emotional detachment when it comes to friends and family and this is where the main problem arises (never mind inadequate history and exam-taking, no access to past medical history and investigations, no documentation, unlikely to refer for diagnostics/consultant opinion).
Friends and family probably feel they have an inside track to somebody who must have their best interests at heart- but really they would be much better off seeing a doctor who is objective. I don't really have an issue with discussing why a management plan has been suggested or explaining a medical issue. The main thing is that the family member has somebody else coordinating their care.

ChewChew

My main problem is that I work in the bed management dept and manage the waiting lists for surgery. I dont mind pulling a string here or there for a friend but some people take the p*ss. oh I was in my GP and he wants me to get this mole removed, can you bunk me to the top of the list? Or, my sisters boyfriends sisters friends brother is on a waiting list, what can you do? Drives me mad sometimes!

AmcD

ChewChew wrote: »

My main problem is that I work in the bed management dept and manage the waiting lists for surgery. I dont mind pulling a string here or there for a friend but some people take the p*ss. oh I was in my GP and he wants me to get this mole removed, can you bunk me to the top of the list? Or, my sisters boyfriends sisters friends brother is on a waiting list, what can you do? Drives me mad sometimes!

I can imagine that drives you mad. Sometime when I refer a patient to a consultant they will say that their aunt/cousin/friend of sister's boyfriend/next door neighbour works in the hospital and "will pull strings". Often it is for something relatively minor and I think of the other patients I have referred with more serious complaints, who will now be waiting longer.

ChewChew

AmcD wrote: »

I can imagine that drives you mad. Sometime when I refer a patient to a consultant they will say that their aunt/cousin/friend of sister's boyfriend/next door neighbour works in the hospital and "will pull strings". Often it is for something relatively minor and I think of the other patients I have referred with more serious complaints, who will now be waiting longer.

Yeah it's mad what some people expect just because they know ya! I can do somethings, but some things I cant. I mean there are huge waiting lists for a reason and yes, my urgent referral for a colonoscopy is going to get a appointment before my mother who needs to have a routine lesion removed. But what makes me laugh are some people who have been to OPD on monday and ring friday ''well I didn't hear anything yet about my appt'' and no love. you wont. for about 6 months. you're on a public waiting list. :rolleyes:

Fluffybums

Dad was a retail pharmacist. Used get home around 6ish (shop closed at 5:30 and we lived in the town, about a 10 min walk away), just sat down for dinner at around 6:30. Doorbell rang, I got the door a neighbour asks for Dad. They hadn't got their script filled could he do it for them. Mum, little brother and I had dinner and Dad ate sometime later.:mad: Just one example of the joys of living in the same house as a retail pharmacist under the NHS. As for Christmas.....:mad: Boxing day rota, emergency filling of scripts and someone brings in a three month old script, I need batteries, and so on.

As for the alternative medicine c**p, you don't have to be a medic to listen to the b****cks spouted about this. Use to work in drug discovery in big Pharma, if you medics think you have bad press, trust me those of us associated with big Pharm are the devil incarnate:D.

sam34

when family used to come to me for medical advice i trotted out the same line: "listen, im a psychiatrist, i havent done general medicine in years, so im rusty on it. but if you start hearing voices, or if anyone is trying to monitor your actions via satellite, get back to me".

works a treat

Bottle_of_Smoke

Wow guys, never thought of this side of things but I know so many people(including members of my own immediate family) who would definitely do this if they knew a doctor.

My second cousin's training to be a doctor and I've already heard his first cousins talking about how they had him checking things for their kids and stuff. He's so so polite I think he'll find it impossible to set boundaries.

AmcD

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

My second cousin's training to be a doctor and I've already heard his first cousins talking about how they had him checking things for their kids and stuff. He's so so polite I think he'll find it impossible to set boundaries.

The poor guy! I can't believe that other relatives are getting him to check out their kids. No offence to your second cousin, but as a medical student he doesn't really have enough clinical experience yet to be giving advice. Can you direct him to this thread?