Advert for 3 Ireland Mobile

watty

Is this advert honest or misleading?

• Broadband is always on, 3G isn't
• Cap is 1/2 a typical Broadband Cap and you are charged €50 per gigabyte over cap. No-one charges that on Broadband.
• Speed can be as low as 50Kbps.
• Does the fact they have the NBS contract be relevant?
• This is Mobile Internet using their 3G Mobile Phone Licence. Phone calls have priority
• Is 3 Ireland the leading Broadband OR mobile supplier? Do they Innovate or provide a better service?

There are other reasons the service isn't Broadband, and can't ever be.

The range can halve or less if 15 people are simultaneously using a mast sector.


See their NBS advert here on Boards.

Here you can complain online to ASAI http://asai.ie/complain.asp

Page 7, Limerick Post 4th July 2009

The NBS advert was repeated page 3. (I guess it's been in for weeks now).

3's T&C http://www.three.ie/pdf/SmallPrint.pdf
Anyone know link for detail on Cap and Fair Usage Policy? (Is the Cap 12G down & 3G up?)
Three claim most people only use 1.5Gbyte a month!
My family uses 18G to 24G and I have no torrrents, don't watch Tv online and don't download music/films

fifth

Like the one I posted in the Midband 3 Mobile Broadband Problems Megathread.. It's to be expected from a company like 3, any company for that matter, to advertise their services, or lack of depending on personal opinion.

It is however my opinion that these adverts are misleading, made to look attractive to those uneducated in the shortcomings (understatement) of mobile internet.

All I can say is, if you're thinking about it, please read the Problems Megathread and look elsewhere for your broadband. It's a national joke that the govt. gave this NBS contract to 3, where even eircom would have been a hundred times better. Just laziness on the governments part.

I will be complaining about these adverts.

Our man in Havana

Found this beauty while out getting a few things in the shops

Close up of the small text

foggy_lad

Three claim most people only use 1.5Gbyte a month!
My family uses 18G to 24G and I have no torrrents, don't watch Tv online and don't download music/films

they are probably basing their figures on their mobile phone broadband subscribers?

robbie_998

well that is a good deal if your looking for broadband with no landline and just want a little stick it is good value but just kinda be outside using it or right next to a window depending on your house and all that crap but the coverage is brilliant !

Our man in Havana

Actually most 3 users would be doing well to transfer that much data in a month.

Our man in Havana

robbie_998 wrote: »

well that is a good deal if your looking for broadband with no landline and just want a little stick it is good value but just kinda be outside using it or right next to a window depending on your house and all that crap but the coverage is brilliant !

Are you living in the real world. 3 is terrible.

robbie_998

my phone is with 3 and their brilliant.. pre pay never lost a signal even in rural ireland and free internet all round.... cant complain at all... prices for calls and texts are good too.

my mate has the broadband stick from them and never had a problem with it and gets about 3 megs speed from it

Our man in Havana

We should have him mounted and stuffed. He is not the typical 3 user we hear about.

robbie_998

but their a good network and so on...

why not tell me some problems you had with them ?

i have none and their my only network since last year and a deadly phone too

Our man in Havana

I had so many problems with their crap band that I ended up taking them to court.
You should read the 3 mega thread.

legs11

Bond-007 wrote: »

We should have him mounted and stuffed. He is not the typical 3 user we hear about.

haha

lmao

indeed, 3meg from 3 is unreal. has he a 3 dongle plugged directly into a 3 mast.:rolleyes:

how do 3 get away with this as they have a service that sucks donkey balls, they can charge 10e a month but its still ****, as you dont get whats advertised.

legs11

Bond-007 wrote: »

I had so many problems with their crap band that I ended up taking them to court.
You should read the 3 mega thread.

what happened in court, cant believe three actually took anyone that far.?

They wouldn't stand a chance against me..:)

CutzEr

legs11 wrote: »

what happened in court, cant believe three actually took anyone that far.?

They wouldn't stand a chance against me..:)

Small claims I assume. Is pretty easy.

Our man in Havana

They didn't show up. Default win.

ZeRoY

Just released yesterday here is a link to a White Paper from the OECD (Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development)

LINK TO PDF

You should find out in there that the term Broadband is perfectly valid for 3 product. With that said they could call it Mobile Broadband but then again the other "normal" operators should call their product Fixed Broadband then :rolleyes:

Edit: By the way, who on Boards.ie came up with "Midband", a term that doesn't even exist! I fail to see how this campaign of naming is going to help the subscribers ....

foggy_lad

robbie_998 wrote: »

well that is a good deal if your looking for broadband with no landline and just want a little stick it is good value but just kinda be outside using it or right next to a window depending on your house and all that crap but the coverage is brilliant !

with the NBS standing outside will probably not be enough people will have to climb their nearest mountain to get three's mobile internmet

robbie_998 wrote: »

but their a good network and so on...

why not tell me some problems you had with them ?

i have none and their my only network since last year and a deadly phone too

spent 8 months fighting with people from india before ComReg got involved after some radio show, i got refunded the full modem cost and was relaesed from the contract early due to no service being provided by three.

these ads are just the next wave of crap to be spewed by the three media machine.

also three's customer service have lied to me and will and try to switch customers on to dearer price plans without permission and are just impossible to reason with!

Our man in Havana

Nothing is going to help the 3 subscribers.

drunkmonkey

Bond-007 wrote: »

Nothing is going to help the 3 subscribers.

Did you take the NBS for a trial run yet, even any of the neighbours?

Our man in Havana

I had 3. I took them to court and won. Do you seriously think I will give up my satisfactory connection with a competitor for 3? Not a chance.
The neighbours were briefed by myself and a few others at a community meeting only the other night. They won't be getting it either. Most of the area are under different solutions and 3 is not one of those solutions. This was discussed at length.

Ryan can take the NBS and insert it in an appropriate place.

drunkmonkey

So your all now in an NBS area and nobody is going to get it based on advice from someone who hasn't tried the NBS offering...
I'm failing to see how that will help the community...I wouldn't go advising them all to get the 02 offering as you know what that's going to do to your connection..

Our man in Havana

There is no hope for some of 3's fanatical supporters.

For the record the area was always covered by 3 from the start. People got 3 and were very unhappy and they left.
Deja Vu all over again. 3 are offering nothing new. Also do you expect them to offer service to people who have broken their previous contracts?

drunkmonkey

I don't think your getting me, all I want to know is has anyone tried the NBS offering, what you have had before (non NBS) and what you have now (nbs) are 2 different offerings and there is something new as I've previously said.

Your not being offered what you already tried regardless of what some posters say.

Our man in Havana

Really? This was just pushed thru my letterbox just now:


Of course is this NBS advertising or is it merely 3 off their own bats? Note the 4 logos as before.

drunkmonkey

Bond-007 wrote: »

Really?

Of course is this NBS advertising or is it merely 3 off their own bats? Note the 4 logos as before.

Really!

That's 3 off there own bats, that's not the NBS leaflet

watty

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I don't think your getting me, all I want to know is has anyone tried the NBS offering, what you have had before (non NBS) and what you have now (nbs) are 2 different offerings and there is something new as I've previously said.

Your not being offered what you already tried regardless of what some posters say.

We know from your previous posts on many threads you are a totally biased 3 supporter.

What part don't you understand? Three have a 3G licence. They are only allowed to transmit the 3G phone service which has HSPA as a protocol on top of the W-CDMA. There are not two physical separate services. It's neither possible technically nor under their licence conditions. Having the NBS contract does not make a 3 Ireland Mobile phone mast + gear work magically better.

We even proved on another thread that the you can get the EXACT same contract with or without NBS (type of modem, Cap, monthly charge, modem cost, length of contract and excess cap).

@ drunkmonkey
You continue to make misleading posts about 3's service in particular and 3G in general.

drunkmonkey

I'm not the one misleading, Everyone here is saying there is no difference between an NBS customer and an ordinary 3 customer, I'm saying there is a different product and service offering which is not available to non NBS customers.
Nobody yet has tried it from what I can see here, i'm just wondering has anybody..
If Mr Bond said yes i've tried the NBS offeirng and it's shoite, well then fine, we have some feedback. At the moment all we have is pie charts and fancy diagrams...

Our man in Havana

Everyone here is saying there is no difference between an NBS customer and an ordinary 3 customer, I'm saying there is a different product and servicee offering which is not available to non NBS customers.

What is the difference? The local carphone warehouse know nothing about the NBS.

drunkmonkey

Bond-007 wrote: »

What is the difference? The local carphone warehouse know nothing about the NBS.

that's carphone, try an independent and you may get some straight answers and facts..

Our man in Havana

Yep, like don't get 3.

Our man in Havana

Carphone are the official local dealer for NBS. Call 1913 and ask.

watty

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Did you take the NBS for a trial run yet, even any of the neighbours?

I don't need to take it for a trial. It's rubbish as a fixed broadband solution.

3G/HSPA is designed for occasional, on the go, portable & mobile Internet access. It's not and will NEVER be a fixed Broadband solution. The technology (CDMA) inherently is the worst for scalling with more users, it inherently on average over the whole sector area of a cell can only manage a total average throughput of 1 to 2Mbps, even it it's a 21Mbps mast.
With 20 simultaneous transfers it's inherent that the performance is worse than ISDN and similar to dialup.

ADSL/Cable/Metro latency 15ms to 60ms
ISDN latency 50ms to 100ms
3G/HSPA latency 80ms to 2000ms, typically 140ms to 300ms
Satellite about 790ms

On NBS above 12Gbyte download (15G total cap = 12+3) the cost is €50 a Gigabyte.

If there are sufficient connections such that speed would be less than 50kbps, you may not connect at all. So much for "always" on. That's possible with less than 30 users.

Because the capacity of each mast sector is so low* a few more customers in a few months time can make the connection unusable.

(*14Mbps peak is less than 2Mbps average sector throughput. Other fixed Wireless systems can have an average throughput of over 35Mbps, DSL is only limited by exchange backhaul (10Gbps is possible) and cable by number of people sharing and modem channels enabled, can be up to 500Mbps average throughput).

watty

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm not the one misleading, Everyone here is saying there is no difference between an NBS customer and an ordinary 3 customer, I'm saying there is a different product and service offering which is not available to non NBS customers.
Nobody yet has tried it from what I can see here, i'm just wondering has anybody..
If Mr Bond said yes i've tried the NBS offeirng and it's shoite, well then fine, we have some feedback. At the moment all we have is pie charts and fancy diagrams...

This is pure Troll.
I posted the three parts of Three's own website before. Here again.

THERE IS NO TECHNICAL DIFFERENCE

From http://www.three.ie/nbs/faqs.htm

What is the difference between NBS customers and Non-NBS customers?
NBS customers are customers located in NBS coverage areas defined in the NBS contract entered into between 3 and the Department of Communication, Energy and Natural Resources (DCENR). These customers will receive broadband under the National Broadband Scheme. Non-NBS customers are in all other areas outside defined NBS coverage areas.

Plain English and looking at prices?
1) €49 modem and 12months non-NBS,
2) €49 Modem and 12 months NBS.
(links to both Three pages).
Same modem, Same prices, same traffic allowance, same contract period, same technology/network/Mobile Phone operator.


http://www.three.ie/nbs/faqs.htm

What product will be offered under the NBS?
3 will extend its network to provide mobile wireless broadband services into NBS areas. The mobile wireless broadband service (HSPA), will have a minimum download speed of 1.2mbps, a minimum upload speed of 200kpbs, a maximum contention ratio of 36:1, a latency of 120 milliseconds and a 15gigabit (12 down, 3 up) inclusive monthly download allowance limit.

In recognition of the fact that some areas will be very difficult to reach using standard infrastructure, in a limited number of cases 3 will make available a satellite product, which may cover up to 8% of the NBS areas. The satellite product will have a minimum download speed of 1mbs, a minimum upload speed of 128kbps, a maximum contention ratio of 48:1, latency of 800 milliseconds and a 11gigabit (10 down, 1 up) inclusive monthly download allowance limit.

The part in italics (by me) is impossible to implement on 3G/HSPA without refusing connections, and would mean on average only 3 user active per mast with no phone calls.

watty

Anyway, this thread is NOT about the NBS, but about a Mobile Phone company advertising their Mobile Data product as if it is a leading edge high quality Broadband product with a huge Cap.

Their Cap is large by Mobile standards, but poor by broadband standards.
Their excess charge is huge.
Their Mobile Data product has historically been the poorest provisioned, with poor technical support, failure to access websites, no or intermittant SMTP (email server), poor performance (worse than good dialup for many people).
Overly optimistic coverage maps.
This is the Misleading NBS advert thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055605768

Our man in Havana

Naughty that they are using NBS, EU and DCENR logos then.

foggy_lad

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I don't think your getting me, all I want to know is has anyone tried the NBS offering, what you have had before (non NBS) and what you have now (nbs) are 2 different offerings and there is something new as I've previously said.

Your not being offered what you already tried regardless of what some posters say.

i have a friend in Co Kilkenny in a NBS area and she tried out the new three product(she had tried it before in march but sent it back on the tenth day as it was unworkable) she also sent the new NBS modem back as it was worse than the previous offering and customer care were of no help except they arranged the return with the store!

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm not the one misleading, Everyone here is saying there is no difference between an NBS customer and an ordinary 3 customer, I'm saying there is a different product and service offering which is not available to non NBS customers.
Nobody yet has tried it from what I can see here, i'm just wondering has anybody..
If Mr Bond said yes i've tried the NBS offeirng and it's shoite, well then fine, we have some feedback. At the moment all we have is pie charts and fancy diagrams...

yes three have now two seperate standards of service! one is the usual rubbish of poor speeds and their legendary "up to 3.6/7.2mbps" claims, but now they also have an NBS service n which they guarantee 1.2mbps all the time and also no dropped connections and no high latency but unless you are the only person using the service you will never see these advertised speeds!

Our man in Havana

So the same old service as before then.

drunkmonkey

foggy_lad wrote: »

i have a friend in Co Kilkenny in a NBS area and she tried out the new three product(she had tried it before in march but sent it back on the tenth day as it was unworkable) she also sent the new NBS modem back as it was worse than the previous offering and customer care were of no help except they arranged the return with the store!

Foggy your your friend has mis informed you, i've tested this with the NBS CC and I honestly don't believe NBS support done nothing in this case. On the contrary I though NBS support was very good, well informed and more than willing to help. There is absolutley no reason why CC would have to ask the store to take back the modem within 10 days. Can you ask your friend, What alternative did they offer? What did the engineers say when they called? What's the area?

tbh, I think your story is a complete crock of shoite but you might be able to prove me wrong with some well informed answers...

watty

The repeater is a daft solution. The Satellite service doesn't exist.

There is no evidence that 3 Ireland will install a router with directional external aerial on Chimney. The only helpful solution.

@ drunkmonkey
Once again you rubbish everyone's poor 3G experiences and make unsubstantiated claims.

jor el

drunkmonkey wrote: »

tbh, I think your story is a complete crock of shoite

No more than your posts are. You keep denying everyone's claims about poor Three performance, but offer no proof as to how/why these people are wrong. Stop the trolling now, post facts if you have them.

If you have a commercial interest in Three's products, then your posts are shilling, and I'd advise you to stop. This goes for the other Three threads too.

watty

On a big 3 Broadband display stand that made no mention of Mobile or Phones and had NBS leaflets and the leaflet Bond-007 uploaded:
Front

Note it suggests 99.5% coverage, which for Laptop/Netbook use is fantasy.

No Mention of Mobile except in payment terms.



IMO Scary misleading Prices

It doesn't make clear you can ONLY have 10G in a Month. If you use that in a week, you have to wait 3 weeks to top up.

The excess charge is €490 a Gigabyte.

These prices are OK for occasional on-the-go usage of Data on a phone. The cost and Cap is not typical for Broadband. I accept that these are cheap prices for a Mobile Phone Network (maybe even below cost, except for Excess Traffic).

This is a Internet via 3G Mobile. Not Broadband. IMO totally misleading.

The shop initially gave permission for me to photograph the large approx 1.2m x 1m "3 Broadband / NBS" stand, but refused when I said it was for an ASAI complaint. It's a dedicated Computer Retailer Chain, not a phone shop. This is their main (only visible) "Broadband" promotion for all the computers they sell.

NBS leaflets on the stand are here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61082416&postcount=59 and here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61082507&postcount=60

foggy_lad

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Foggy your your friend has mis informed you, i've tested this with the NBS CC and I honestly don't believe NBS support done nothing in this case. On the contrary I though NBS support was very good, well informed and more than willing to help. There is absolutley no reason why CC would have to ask the store to take back the modem within 10 days. Can you ask your friend, What alternative did they offer? What did the engineers say when they called? What's the area?

tbh, I think your story is a complete crock of shoite but you might be able to prove me wrong with some well informed answers...

my friend lives on the outskirts of a small village in kilkenny called inistioge and she got no calls from three at all she rang them and told them it was worse than before and they told her they would pass it on to their technicians who would contact her within 48hours,

but three days later she rang again as had got no call back and she was told the technicians could find NO fault in her area so she asked to return the modem and cancel the service which they did over the phone!

yes she did not have to ring customer care to return the moden in store but she did have to ring them to cancel the direct debit as in march the eejits in store took back the modem but never rang customer care to cancel the direct debit! she was refunded but really should not have had to go through all the hassle of explaining three's mistakes to several people first!

my friend is again using dial-up but is better off than when she was using the three mobile internet dongle as the speed is constant which she requires and the connection does not drop every half hour due to someone else connecting and knocking her off the cell.
i dont doubt that three have improved their lousy customer care for the NBS but i am saying the service is still the same old crap they offered before, all the customer care in the world can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Elmo

watty wrote: »

Here you can complain online to ASAI http://asai.ie/complain.asp

You won't get anywhere with a self-regulator, have you tried the regulator (comreg), I am guessing you'll have even less chance.

But I have no faith in any regulators.

watty

Comreg doesn't regulate Adverts.

Elmo

watty wrote: »

Comreg doesn't regulate Adverts.

Indeed but my point is that as a regulator ComReg and the Government entered arrangements for the roll out of Broadband in several area of the country, and from what I gather you are pointing out that 3 mobiles broadband isn't considered broadband. So since an independent regulator/ government regulator cannot regulate, what makes you think a self-regulator like ASAI will try to regulate false advertising, if there were 2 nude people on the beach in the advert then perhaps the ASAI will look at your complaint.

Any response from the ASAI? What is ComReg position?

foggy_lad

i have noticed that the ads which appeared in papers etc carrying the NBS and other euro logos have been removed and replaced with the normal ads without the NBS logos. someone's complaint must have obviously been taken seriously?

watty

The 18th July 2009 Limerick Post still the same 3 Broadband advert.

Walkman

foggy_lad wrote: »

i have noticed that the ads which appeared in papers etc carrying the NBS and other euro logos have been removed and replaced with the normal ads without the NBS logos. someone's complaint must have obviously been taken seriously?

What you are seeing is their normal national advertising campaign for their mobile broadband offer. It's seperate from the NBS so the logo's will not appear. Nothing to do with complaints thus logo's getting removed.

Elmo

Anyone get a response from the ASAI?

watty

Walkman wrote: »

What you are seeing is their normal national advertising campaign for their mobile broadband offer. It's seperate from the NBS so the logo's will not appear. Nothing to do with complaints thus logo's getting removed.

That makes no sense. The NBS adverts have NBS on them and 3 only as a logo. The 3 Adverts are all about 3 and only have the NBS as a logo at bottom. As per 1st post of this thread.

This is the NBS advert http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055605768

@Walkman
Frankly your explanation makes no sense. Do you work for 3 or a related publicity company or 3 Reseller? I think we deserve to know.

Elmo

Have you had a response from the ASAI?