Everybody knows...

Dante09

is a great leonard cohen song but also, everybody knows that what goes on in the legal profession in this country is a farce and the law society are advertising it! "Tightarse Irish firm seeks slave"-HAHAHAHAHAHA...bloody joke
http://www.rollonfriday.com/ThisWeek/News/tabid/58/Id/144/fromTab/58/Default.aspx

Our man in Havana

Interesting. Adopting the US model.

nuac

Solicitor's apprentices or rather their parents used to have to pay to be taken on as apprentices, and did not get any pay while serving their apprenticeship.

Many smaller firms have decided in the present downturn that they cannot afford to pay trainees, thus making it harder to get training contracts.

Offices are not run and financed from some bottomless pit. If the fee income is not coming in the vacancies will not be there.

Dante09

That doesnt mean you should ask someone to work for free for 8 months of their life, with the possibility of a training contract at the end of it. There is no vindicating that in the 21st century.
However fairplay to anyone who takes up that offer...they'd want to have serious determination but are leaving themselves open to serious abuse which, btw is being advertised by the law society.

legal eagle 1

Haha Legal Eagle applied for that but never heard anything back!!

June2008

Dante09 wrote: »

That doesnt mean you should ask someone to work for free for 8 months of their life, with the possibility of a training contract at the end of it. There is no vindicating that in the 21st century.
However fairplay to anyone who takes up that offer...they'd want to have serious determination but are leaving themselves open to serious abuse which, btw is being advertised by the law society.

why not? the intern gets some much needed work experience that will stand to them if they decide to apply to other firms and the firm gets to see if their intern is someone who really wants to work in law rather than those who still think being a lawyer is a glamourous salubrious job. in every internship a definite job is always only a "possibility" and back in the day there was no payment. In this day and age people need to lose their sense of entitlement and deal with the fact that you may have to work for free or go below your station to get ahead.
So many people are moaning about how hard it is to get traineeships, work experience etc and then one comes along and people moan about its conditions. Moaning about working for free for a mere 8 mths but being okay with searching for a traineeship for 3 years just doesnt reconcile. If you arent prepared to put in some hard graft then you dont deserve to get ahead in the legal world.

Dante09

Please people,..this is abuse of young, determined graduates who are eager enough to get into the profession by ANY means necessary.
I worked for 2 months unpaid in a small local firm but i got to do this by walking in and asking if i can do so. Advertising this kind of stuff is simply WRONG. Eight months is simply too long of a period to work for nothing. Time that could be wisely spent doing something else.
How come the large firms' internship programs run for just 3 weeks, which seems to be enough time for them to determine to whom to make traineeship offers?? This firm doesnt want to offer a traineeship, it wants, as the article puts it, a slave for 8 months.
My difficulty lies mainly in the fact that the law society are actually condoning this kind of advertising.
The UK market is not much better off than our own but a very popular UK website is having a laugh at this....and rightly so imo....and now our peers across the water know the kind of stuff that goes on here.

Thoie

While I'd have no problem with someone getting experience without payment, what do you live on for 8 months? You are not seeking employment, therefore not eligible for anything from social welfare. Rent, food, travel and clothes for 8 months all costs. They're not paying tax, so therefore not eligible for commuter travel tickets. Living a pretty frugal lifestyle, that's at least €7,000 for the period, excluding exam costs etc.

legal eagle 1

I'm pretty sure this company has got hundreds of applications, maybe some of us are completely stupid and mad in the head for considering it and ya its not right but whats right about the legal world at the minute.............nothing!!

Dante09

Like I said, my main difficulty lies with the law society advertising this.
If individuals want to go into law firms asking for some free work experience thats perfectly fine, its something i did myself. But the law society are basically encouraging 8 months of "slave labour". Perhaps they are trying to make up for the mistakes they have made by permitting so many people to sit the FE1s and then leaving them out in limbo-land.

June2008

if they don't advertise it how else are they going to get people? if that intern gets a traineeship at the end of it then they'll have considered it worth the effort. people who moan about it and don't go for it will still be moaning about the lack of traineeships in a years time. You cant all hope for a big 5 firm (or even a solvent firm) in this day and age to come along and wine and dine you then offer a traineeship. Like i said the people who go for that unpaid internship are hte ones who are dedicated to getting into this career

legal eagle 1

My view on things is to try for every possible opportunity out there and at the end of day, least i can say i put my all into it! Even if it gets me nowhere!! I get where your coming from as regards the law society Dante09 but fact is there not forcing people to apply for it, if people like me want to apply for it and be a 'slave' for 8 months well thats our choice!

Dante09

You're dead right in what you're saying but it doesnt or shouldnt take 8 months of free labour before a person can be considered for a traineeship.
The fact of the matter is that this firm wants someone to work for free for a period that is simply unnecessarily long in order to enable that firm to determine whether they wish to offer that person a traineeship. It takes the larger firms 3 weeks.
Also, i can guarantee you that that firm has thrown/filed away hundreds of CVs in recent months and there is absolutely no need to advertise it by the solicitors governing body who by doing so are in effect encouraging it.

Amazotheamazing

June2008 wrote: »

why not? the intern gets some much needed work experience that will stand to them if they decide to apply to other firms and the firm gets to see if their intern is someone who really wants to work in law rather than those who still think being a lawyer is a glamourous salubrious job. in every internship a definite job is always only a "possibility" and back in the day there was no payment. In this day and age people need to lose their sense of entitlement and deal with the fact that you may have to work for free or go below your station to get ahead.
So many people are moaning about how hard it is to get traineeships, work experience etc and then one comes along and people moan about its conditions. Moaning about working for free for a mere 8 mths but being okay with searching for a traineeship for 3 years just doesnt reconcile. If you arent prepared to put in some hard graft then you dont deserve to get ahead in the legal world.

Must be great for you if you've someone who'll bankroll you for 8 months while you work for free. Brother can you spare me a dime?

Our man in Havana

Sounds like the plot to a Will Smith film, The Persuit of Happyness.

Dante09

Bond-007 wrote: »

Sounds like the plot to a Will Smith film, The Persuit of Happyness.

Obviously you havent seen the Pursuit of Happiness, because Will Smith ended up with a job and not on the dole.:D

McCrack

I agree with what June2008 has said. Nothing for nothing in this life.

My interpretation on this is that this Principal is serious about taking on a trainee next year and basically he/she will have to pay that trainee while he/she attends PPC1 as per LS Regs. on trainee's that have worked in the office pre-PPC1 so by getting 8 months unpaid labour he /she will balance out by paying wages to the trainee on the professional course...

that or he/she is a stingy ****

Our man in Havana

Dante09 wrote: »

Obviously you havent seen the Pursuit of Happiness, because Will Smith ended up with a job and not on the dole.:D

If I recall the film correctly the firm had many unpaid slaves competing for the job that Will Smith's character eventually got.

June2008

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Must be great for you if you've someone who'll bankroll you for 8 months while you work for free. Brother can you spare me a dime?

i didnt have anyone to bankroll me but if i wanted it bad enough then i would find a way,

I did an internship two years ago and none of us even bothered to ask if we would get paid cause we were so happy to get the job!

8 months is a long time but not when compared to the time it might take to find a paid internship

legal eagle 1

http://www.rollonfriday.com/ThisWeek/News/tabid/58/Id/128/fromTab/36/Default.aspx
If only the Law Society in this country was as proactive on such things!!!

Busy_Bee

I have an interview for this job in a few days, has anybody else heard from them? I'm presuming that the experience gained from this internship (even if no training contract is offered at the end of it) would be far more beneficial to a person seeking a training contract than a masters would be. At least I hope so, I already paid a non-refundable deposit for a masters which I will presumably have to back out of it if I get this job.

kthxbai

As I understand it, while devilling, a pupil barrister has to work for 12 months without payment. Although, I suppose that's different in the sense that he or she will be qualified at the end of it and thus, in theory, earning. I don't see a problem in theory, although eight months does seem a bit long, particularly as a training contract is not guaranteed at the end..

legal eagle 1

Congrats on the interview, i applied for this job too but did not get any reply so i'm taking that as a rejection. Sure what do you have to lose, give the interview everything you got and than take it from there. I think the experience this job could offer would be very worthwhile whether you end up with a training contract with them or not! Lots of luck with it

Sangre

Saw this as well. Took it as a firm trying to take advantage of people willing to do anything to get a traineeship. Don't be suprised to be shown the door after 8 months.

legal eagle 1

Took it as a firm trying to take advantage of people willing to do anything to get a traineeship. Don't be suprised to be shown the door after 8 months.

I understand people critcisms with this 'job' but, at the end of the day it is something that will look very good on a persons cv. If this person decided to do the masters they wouldnt be earning any money either! Some people see this has a firm taking advantage of people in search of training contracts and others see it as an opportunity to some how break into the legal world! Either way lots of luck to Busy Bee......wish I was in their position!

Dante09

legal eagle 1 wrote: »

I understand people critcisms with this 'job' but, at the end of the day it is something that will look very good on a persons cv. If this person decided to do the masters they wouldnt be earning any money either! Some people see this has a firm taking advantage of people in search of training contracts and others see it as an opportunity to some how break into the legal world! Either way lots of luck to Busy Bee......wish I was in their position!

I would agree with the notion that it has the potential to look good on a CV-considering it is 8 months work experience. BUT dont forget to flip the coin-an employer could take this view: This firm has given you 8 months to prove your worthiness and you failed because you werent offered the TC and considering that 8 months is a hell of a long time to impress...that would not look very good at all. imo

legal eagle 1

Knew you would find some fault with what i said :rolleyes:

Sangre

No problem with people taking it, experience is experience after all. My problem is with someone letting a graduate fall into debt just for this 'experience'.

Dante09

Sangre wrote: »

No problem with people taking it, experience is experience after all. My problem is with someone letting a graduate fall into debt just for this 'experience'.

+1

And like I said earlier...the body responsible for the solicitors profession in this country are advertising this.

Dante09

legal eagle 1 wrote: »

Knew you would find some fault with what i said :rolleyes:

Didnt find a fault with anything you said. Actually I agreed with you.
As future lawyers though, its always important to look at both sides of the coin.

legal eagle 1

Didnt find a fault with anything you said. Actually I agreed with you.
As future lawyers though, its always important to look at both sides of the coin.

I suppose :rolleyes:
Well regardless of our conflicting opinions, hopefully who ever does get this 'job', there'll be a training contract at the end of it for them!!

Dante09

legal eagle 1 wrote: »

I suppose :rolleyes:
Well regardless of our conflicting opinions, hopefully who ever does get this 'job', there'll be a training contract at the end of it for them!!

I dont think there is anything conflicting about our opinions. I agree with what you said and I think you would agree with what I said.
Yeh, best of luck to whoever is interviewing and should you get it, i sincerely hope it will be worth your while.:)

nuac

as an employer I think this is a reasonable proposition. The trainee would get worthwhile work experience. Even if the result turns him or her off law, it would have been worth the time.

Re the 8 months as opposed to three weeks:
Other people in the office have to spend time and effort showing the trainee "the ropes". They are reluctant to spend that time if the trainee will be moving on after a short period.

Fee income in nearly all offices has been sharply reduced in recent times. Even in boom times there was intensive competition in pricing of work. Therefore many firms now have no budget for training with existing staff on short time etc etc.