Pump Action Shotgun?

Meyer

I'm thinking of getting a pump action, any recommendations? Nothing pricey, just a good all rounder and definitely nothing that is on the restricted list (I have enough headaches with my handgun an CF semi, without another restricted firearm around my neck :eek:).
I intend on doing clays and a bit of hunting with it...

It wasn't me!

Well, there's the eternally reliable and much loved Remington 870. Think it comes as standard with a 3-round capacity, so you'd be okay there. By all accounts, a great piece of kit, and infinitely adaptable.

meathstevie

Maverick, cheap and not bad at all and a rake of barrels available for it from 24" smoothbore to 30" multichoke if I'm not mistaken.

Jonty

There not really suited to clays. For the money you'll pay for a decent one, you could pick up a beretta 303 automatic.

Grizzly 45

Mossberg,if you want to be a bit more upper class than those Maverick owners:).Seriously,Mossberg makes Maverick as well and they are just as good,in a cheap&cheerful way.
Dunno about them not being good clay guns.I bust most of mine with a Mossy.

Dusty87

A friend of mine has a pump action. He says he got the odd funny look when he did go clay shooting..

J.R.

Dusty87 wrote: »

A friend of mine has a pump action. He says he got the odd funny look when he did go clay shooting..

Yes they are not very popular at clay shoots - like the semi-auto others cannot see if there are any cartridges in the breech or magazine.

I think some people also have a certain bias towards pump actions.....probably from Hollywood.

I used a Remington 870 left handed pump action for 23 years, firing 1,000's of cartridges and it never once jammed or misfired. When used to it it's as fast as any semi-auto if 'pumped' properly.

Grizzly 45

They are just as safe as a DBBL on a shoot if the slide is fully racked back,as that way the hammer and trigger mechanism is jammed by the battery,and even then if there is no shell in the breech or feeder ,nothing can happen until the action is cycled twice.As usual if people dont understand somthing ,they fear, and want to ban it.

Yeah,proably Hollywood and outdated snobbery going back a 100 years now as well.

José Alaninho

Has the 870 been mentioned? It has? I see.

/thread

pullandbang

Nothing wrong with a pump for game shooting but it's not really suited to clays. Why give yourself the extra heartache of having to pump for your second shot? It's hard enough to keep focussed on your targets without having to think about pumping the next shell in.
If you do insist on a repeater, then get a semi auto rather than a pump.
You will always find one or two people who'll tell you they're great for clays, but go to any clay shoot and count how many pumps (or semis) that are there.

paddy2008

When using a pump you dont think about pumping .It just becomes second nature!

Grizzly 45

I somhow find it a benefit,in that it makes me re focus on the 2nd clay or 1st missed target.Lots of folks use them for trap and skeet in the US with no bother.It works for me!:D

pullandbang

paddy2008 wrote: »

When using a pump you dont think about pumping .It just becomes second nature!

I'm sure it does, but the OP is a beginner and it's not second nature for him. If he's starting in clays he'll have enough on his mind without having to think about pumping - which he would do.

The vast majority of clay shooters don't use pumps - and it's for a very good reason - they're not suitable. In the same way that golfers don't use putters off the tee box, or wedges on the green - they are golf clubs but they're not suitable.

Also, as has been mentioned here and in lots of other threads, both semis and pumps are frowned upon by most clay shooters.

My advice to the OP - stay clear of a pump action if you want to shoot clays.

Grizzly 45

OTOH,I started shooting clays with a single shot .410,at "flapper" shoots.
DTL,sporting,bolting rabbit,etc,and moved onto my second gun a Winchester1300XTR 12 GA. I never found it a problem. I DID find messing around with OU,trigger selectors a right PITA,and SXS barrels annoy my sight picture.

Well when "most" clay shooters can bust 8/10 clays like Tom Knapp with a benelli pump action........:D

Best advice,IMHO go out TRY a bunch of guns on the clay range.
FIND the one you like the most.SXS/OU,pump ,semi,lever and are comfortable with it.
PRACTISE,and you will break clays with the best of them,whatever the gun is.
If clay shooters frown on pumps and semis,ignore them,you are proably shooting better than them with a 400 euro gun than they are with their 5K euro jobs.:D I always noticed those comments about my pump or semi when Iwas doing better than the O/U crowd.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I always noticed those comments about my pump or semi when Iwas doing better than the O/U crowd.

Big claim in this country Grizzly, given that we've seen the Irish Team win the world championships in olympic trap, an Irish individual win the silver medal in the world championships, several Irish shooters ranked in the top 40 or so olympic trap shooters in the world, win the european championships, place in the top 20 in the Olympics, win several medals (gold, silver & bronze in both team & individual events) in several world cups and generally kick bottom well above their weight class...

Grizzly 45

Good for them Sparks! Never went Pro,but just shot for the FUN of it!And these were the local Hill billy flappers that these comments were at.Lord alone what would have been said if I had been at that level.:D:D

Sparks

Ah now Grizzly, you gotta say they're just the local SSIA shooters you're beating with your cheapo shotgun if that's the case, lest we all think you're claiming to be the Ty Webb of clay shooting!

Mellor

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

OTOH,I started shooting clays with a single shot .410,at "flapper" shoots.
DTL,sporting,bolting rabbit,etc,and moved onto my second gun a Winchester1300XTR 12 GA. I never found it a problem. I DID find messing around with OU,trigger selectors a right PITA,and SXS barrels annoy my sight picture.

Well when "most" clay shooters can bust 8/10 clays like Tom Knapp with a benelli pump action........:D

Best advice,IMHO go out TRY a bunch of guns on the clay range.
FIND the one you like the most.SXS/OU,pump ,semi,lever and are comfortable with it.

Grizzly, I understand your point that a repeater can break clays with the best of them. and as a regular user of pumps, you are defending them (were always more popular in the US anyway ).
Having never used a pump action before I honestly don't know but do pump actions have any advantages over semi-autos? I take your point that selector triggers are an added element to think about, just like the act of pumping, but surly a SA has less distractions than either, plus its faster than a pump action (modern pump actions before somebody mentions old models were the trigger can be held in place)

pullandbang

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

OTOH,I started shooting clays with a single shot .410,at "flapper" shoots.

As we all did Grizzly, but we soon found out we needed to move up to double barrells.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I DID find messing around with OU,trigger selectors a right PITA,and SXS barrels annoy my sight picture.

My point exactly. Trying to use guns that are not ideally suited to the task. A side by side is totally unsuitable for sustained clay shooting because it's too light, usually has two triggers and the wrong sight plane.
Even an older O/U with two triggers is a nuisance.
However, the barrell selectors are a help is Sporting Clays.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Well when "most" clay shooters can bust 8/10 clays like Tom Knapp with a benelli pump action........:D

Tom Knapp is probably one of the most gifted shots in the world and could probably shoot them with his eyes closed. That doesn't mean we should all start using pump action shotguns.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Best advice,IMHO go out TRY a bunch of guns on the clay range.
FIND the one you like the most.SXS/OU,pump ,semi,lever and are comfortable with it.

By all means OP, try them all, but if you want to shoot clays on any sort of formal basis, then you'll eventually end up with an O/U - so start as you mean to go on.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

If clay shooters frown on pumps and semis,ignore them,you are proably shooting better than them with a 400 euro gun than they are with their 5K euro jobs.:D I always noticed those comments about my pump or semi when Iwas doing better than the O/U crowd.

There are two main reasons clay shooters (regardless of the value of their guns) frown upon semis/pumps.

1. Safety. The only safe gun is one that is open and empty. That can't be readily seen in a semi or a pump.
2. Nuisance factor. In squadded disciplines, the ejecting spent cartridge crossing your path as you prepare for your shot is annoying to say the least.

Grizzly 45

Mellor wrote: »

Grizzly, I understand your point that a repeater can break clays with the best of them. and as a regular user of pumps, you are defending them (were always more popular in the US anyway ).
Having never used a pump action before I honestly don't know but do pump actions have any advantages over semi-autos? I take your point that selector triggers are an added element to think about, just like the act of pumping, but surly a SA has less distractions than either, plus its faster than a pump action (modern pump actions before somebody mentions old models were the trigger can be held in place)

The one major advantage I see of the pump over the semi Mellor, is it will go Bang 99.9% of the times no matter what type of ammo you stuff into it,and no matter what conditions you are in.Once you get used to the idea of pull and push..Bang!
You ca be sure you will hit whatever you point at.

A semi,and I've two of them A Franchi 48L and a Remmy1100,both different mechanisms ...long recoil and gas operation.I find that both can be very picky on what they are fed.Not so much that they wil go CLICK rather than Bang at the crucial moment,but rather Bang,and stovepipe or double feed a shell.Now you are out for the count,either at a flight pond on the line or on the practical course.
The only way that can happen with a pump is you are "short stroking the slide" A semi it could be a half dozen problems.That IMO can be more serious for a beginner to sort out insofar as saftey and shooting satisfaction is concerned.
Dont get me wrong..semis are great guns too.BUT they need IMO to be kept meticiously clean.Each one seems to have their own quirks on ammo
and how tightly/loosly they are held.Some, and this applies more to practical shotgun,cant or dont handle being fired from unusaul positions or shooting stances.
The OP also wanted to use it for duck hunting.You spend a load on a lovely O/U SXS ,etc for clays..How are you going to feel about dragging it thru muck,a salt marsh,off and on a boat in the middle of a Winter storm?A pump will still keep going in those conditions,especially a stainless model.
A semi will if you have pre season cleaned and post last shoot cleaned as well.The guy with the expensive O/U is at home!Worried about the rain ruining the finish.:).Unless you want a Ruger Red label All weather shotgun.The most ugliest and expensive O/U shotgun ever made IMO:D

BTW the only old shotgun that I know of that could "slam fire" was the original Winchester 1897.[Not the modern Norinco copy].

Grizzly 45

pullandbang wrote: »

As we all did Grizzly, but we soon found out we needed to move up to double barrells.

My point exactly. Trying to use guns that are not ideally suited to the task. A side by side is totally unsuitable for sustained clay shooting because it's too light, usually has two triggers and the wrong sight plane.
Even an older O/U with two triggers is a nuisance.
However, the barrell selectors are a help is Sporting Clays.

Yet you will find folks even deriding the O/U as well as an ugly lump of iron,and that it should be only shot with SXS.
Sporting clays,well, that simulates driven game ,or game shooting scenarios so you should be able to use a pump or SXS or O/U or what ever iron you pack to go hunting on a Sporting course. Pumps/Semis are single sight plane guns with just a push button saftey.Not a saftey combined with a barrel selector, or saftey in one place,selector in another.

Tom Knapp is probably one of the most gifted shots in the world and could probably shoot them with his eyes closed. That doesn't mean we should all start using pump action shotguns.

No,but we can certainly aspire to his greatness,and I wonder could he,or anyone do a 10 caly shot trick with an OU?

By all means OP, try them all, but if you want to shoot clays on any sort of formal basis, then you'll eventually end up with an O/U - so start as you mean to go on.

Dont forget ,he wanted this for quacker hunting as well.

There are two main reasons clay shooters (regardless of the value of their guns) frown upon semis/pumps.

1. Safety. The only safe gun is one that is open and empty. That can't be readily seen in a semi or a pump.
2. Nuisance factor. In squadded disciplines, the ejecting spent cartridge crossing your path as you prepare for your shot is annoying to say the least.

See my previous post on this,cartridge out,slide /battery full back,saftey on.Triple safe! Same as an O/U,broken ,shells out,saftey on .All anyone has to do is look properly.

Is there a race or time limit on to get your shot off in a disipline shoot??
Lat I remembered you had 30/60 secs? on a DTL to shoot.If that distracts you in that time limit???


We 'll agree to disagree here.You break them with an O/U ,I break them with pumps or semis.Whatever gets you a 10/10 score.

cavan shooter

I have never used a pump action in clays or for game. I have used the semi and have owned Benelli and beretta. I still maintain I have shot better scores with my old semis than I have with the o/u.

Yes, by far the o/u is the most popular clay gun, but with dedicated sporting models in semis including the new fan dangled Beretta out, semis are coming into there own and they cant be ignored. Ther has always been a dedicated fan club

less recoil/ easier swing one choke no favving about

You can use shell deflectors,(clean up after you) you can use shell catchers. I dont shoot registered and I infrequently shoot the trap disciplines mainly sporting so squad wise there isnt much hassel

Most semis allow for the bolt to be held open, and therfore you can see it's unloaded. Dont blame a semi for being unsafe when there is a "nut behind the but" Beretta sporters include a 2 shot plug to ensure only 2 shot capability, if you wish.

In short ++ for repeaters for clay shooting

pullandbang

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Yet you will find folks even deriding the O/U as well as an ugly lump of iron,and that it should be only shot with SXS.

I've yet to to meet anyone deriding an O/U or suggetsting that clays should only be shot using a side by side - unless you're at a posh English shoot!

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Sporting clays,well, that simulates driven game ,or game shooting scenarios so you should be able to use a pump or SXS or O/U or what ever iron you pack to go hunting on a Sporting course. Pumps/Semis are single sight plane guns with just a push button saftey.Not a saftey combined with a barrel selector, or saftey in one place,selector in another.

You won't shoot clays on a sustained basis with a side by side - unless you want to injure your shoulder. Even shooting a 10 bird at a local flapper will leave the barrells too hot to comfortably hold.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

No,but we can certainly aspire to his greatness,and I wonder could he,or anyone do a 10 caly shot trick with an OU?

I think Tom's expolits are a great circus act and he puts on a fantastic show. But that's what is is - a show. And no, you couldn't do his trick shooting with an O/U because it's not suitable.
That's my whole point - use a gun that is suitable for the job in hand.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Dont forget ,he wanted this for quacker hunting as well.

Perfect for the ducks - but not suitable for clays.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

See my previous post on this,cartridge out,slide /battery full back,saftey on.Triple safe! Same as an O/U,broken ,shells out,saftey on .All anyone has to do is look properly.

I don't want to have to go up close to inspect someones gun. I want to see it open from any distance. On quite a few occasions at our own flappers over the years, I've had to tell semi owners to open the breech as they carried their guns around the field. I even came across one guy leaning on the barrell with the breech closed (a la council worker leaning on shovel). When he opened the breech the gun was loaded with three shells:eek: which he thought was safe because he had the safety on!

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Is there a race or time limit on to get your shot off in a disipline shoot??
Lat I remembered you had 30/60 secs? on a DTL to shoot.If that distracts you in that time limit???

You have 10 seconds to take your shot from the time the previous shooter fires.

cavan shooter

I don't want to have to go up close to inspect someones gun. I want to see it open from any distance. On quite a few occasions at our own flappers over the years, I've had to tell semi owners to open the breech as they carried their guns around the field. I even came across one guy leaning on the barrell with the breech closed (a la council worker leaning on shovel). When he opened the breech the gun was loaded with three shells:eek: which he thought was safe because he had the safety on!QUOTE]

Lads Lads lets not turn this into how much safer repeaters are versus o/u. You'll meet all types out there idiots with s/s, o/u and repeaters. Personally I sleave all guns between stands, and thats where they should be when not in use or against a stand. Secondly a couple a years ago I got a Browning GTi accross the lug from an idiot carrying it on his shoulder. Only this year saw a lad carrying a closed o/u as if he was on guard duty.

Again as always its the use of the gun not the gun itself

Simple if its not been used put it in the slip and then carry it.

Grizzly 45

pullandbang wrote: »

I've yet to to meet anyone deriding an O/U or suggetsting that clays should only be shot using a side by side - unless you're at a posh English shoot!

I have..They were Irish with English nobility pretensions.:p

You won't shoot clays on a sustained basis with a side by side - unless you want to injure your shoulder. Even shooting a 10 bird at a local flapper will leave the barrells too hot to comfortably hold.

Jeeze you wouldnt want to have said that to my mentor,he was going to repersent Ireland in the Olympics in Mexico in 1963 in clay .Never went.BUT he shot everything with a Purdey S/S

That's my whole point - use a gun that is suitable for the job in hand.

But thats debatable as to what is suitable.I've shot clays too with a Saiga12 and SPAS12 hardly suitable ,but you can do it .

Perfect for the ducks - but not suitable for clays.

Bu he wants a dual use gun.

I don't want to have to go up close to inspect someones gun. I want to see it open from any distance. On quite a few occasions at our own flappers over the years, I've had to tell semi owners to open the breech as they carried their guns around the field. I even came across one guy leaning on the barrell with the breech closed (a la council worker leaning on shovel). When he opened the breech the gun was loaded with three shells:eek: which he thought was safe because he had the safety on!

Well,is that the guns fault or the idiot who is using it???If you cant see a hunk of wood locked back ???
Surely P&B if it is a saftey factor there must be plenty of statistical evidence to say pumps/semis are more dangerous on clay shoots...Do we have any break down on this??

You have 10 seconds to take your shot from the time the previous shooter fires.

[/QUOTE]
Shows how long since I've shot DTL.:eek: I always felt it was an age.

pullandbang

Personally I sleave all guns between stands, and thats where they should be when not in use or against a stand.
Simple if its not been used put it in the slip and then carry it.

Did you know that in Australia gun slips are not allowed at clay shoots? They also don't have any gun stands.

The thinking being that you must be in control of your gun at all times and it must be visibly open and empty. You cannot use a gun slip because the gun is carried closed inside it. You cannot rest it against a stand because it's closed and it's not in your control.

Makes a lot of sense when you think about it logically.

pullandbang

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I have..They were Irish with English nobility pretensions.:p

My good man, one should not be so presumptious regarding ones pretensions

Grizzly 45

Thats intresting P&B.I'll keep that in mind next time I go clay shooting in Oz...But then...No.!!!..pumps and semis are banned there.:(
Plenty of the"Terminator" Lever action shotguns though:)

Breachloader

I've had both the Mossberg Maverick and the Reminton 870. Both are good guns, but for swing and pointability the 870 gets the nod...

Taken Pheasant, Crow, Pigeon, Woodcock, Duck, Fox, Rabbit, Cats, clays etc. etc....

Every bit as good as my Beretta (686S O/U) in the field and clay stand. but infinitly more durable. Mud, Rain, Sand, Scratchs, Knocks (Once fell off the top of car going 30mph down the road, YES the damb thing was left on the roof... BUT came away with just another scratch).

Perfact dual purpose gun...


BR...

Hezz700

J.R. wrote: »

I think some people also have a certain bias towards pump actions.....probably from Hollywood.

John Woo and Co have alot to answer for:mad::D

J.R.

Mellor wrote: »

SA has less distractions than either, plus its faster than a pump action (modern pump actions before somebody mentions old models were the trigger can be held in place)

Many would claim that the pump is in fact faster than the semi.......when I used the 870 fellow shooters couldn't believe it wasn't a semi with the speed it could fire off shells.

pullandbang wrote: »

2. Nuisance factor. In squadded disciplines, the ejecting spent cartridge crossing your path as you prepare for your shot is annoying to say the least.

Nuisance can be a factor at clay shoots.........I remember years ago at a flapper shoot, to raise club funds, I was in the same line as a shooting friend of mine. He shot a Remington 1100 semi and I shot a left handed Remington 870 pump.

My friend was drawn no:1 and I was drawn no: 3 in the line. After 2/3 rounds the poor chap at stand no:2, between us, was ready to explode....being hit by empty shells on left & right hand side.......embarrassing to say the least......I bought a o/u specifically for clay shooting after that!

Meyer

Cheers for the all the info posted above, It's given me a lot to think about, and has been illuminating about shooting disciplines I had hitherto know little about.
Will probably opt for the Remmy 870 given it's price, and its track record...It looks like the ultimate all-rounder, and It will probably stand to me if I decide I don't care much for clay shooting, but if I do, then I will probably change if I find the 870 isn't up too the job at hand.

gameshotpro

Dont forget that at most of the clay shooting grounds nowadays you have to bring your used shells home with you. Which means that after finishing shooting with an auto or pump you would have to walk around gathering your shells. whereas with an over and under, break gun and take cartridges out and put them in your pocket:). I shoot an over and under and I certainly wouldnt fancy walking around after shooting a 25 bird squad and picking up all my used shells

Killguru

Just one thing, the Rem 870 doesn't have screw in chokes. Its a fixed half choke as far as i can see on shoot.ie

José Alaninho

Killguru wrote: »

Just one thing, the Rem 870 doesn't have screw in chokes. Its a fixed half choke as far as i can see on shoot.ie

All of them come with the RemChoke screw-in system, no different on my 870.

cavan shooter

gameshotpro wrote: »

Dont forget that at most of the clay shooting grounds nowadays you have to bring your used shells home with you. Which means that after finishing shooting with an auto or pump you would have to walk around gathering your shells. whereas with an over and under, break gun and take cartridges out and put them in your pocket:). I shoot an over and under and I certainly wouldnt fancy walking around after shooting a 25 bird squad and picking up all my used shells

Do they not have bins????:D:D:D

They have in Mourne, Courtlough, Ardee and lakelands.

"you pay 30 quid to shoot 100 birds and now they want you also to bring home your empties. Next theyll want you to bring your own clays."

I can understand picking up empties as when I shot with the auto I always did but bring them home aswell.

You sure thats not for registered

Grizzly 45

Speaking of inconsiderate people on the line.Is it too much to ask that youO/U lot break your guns straight??So your empties eject Backwards.Not side break left or right and chuck your empties in a neat pile that people have to kick away when they get to a plate??

Gameshot you obviously use a gun with extractors not ejectors.An OU with ejectors isnt going to alow you to do that,unless you have fishing nets for pockets.:)

It wasn't me!

If you open the gun one-handed and have the other ready over the opening chambers you can stop them flying everywhere.

hk

Just a point raised by the OP, and im open to correction here, but im almost sure that pump shotguns are already on the restricted list, last time i checked i got the impression that my .308, 870 pump and 9mm were all on the list. BTW i use my 870 for hunting/pest control and clays, no bother with it at all, a good all rounder, and as previously stated if you learn to use the recoil to your advantage you can practicaly cycle the action automtically with no thought. People who give me strange looks at clay shoots with my pump can look all they want, better concentrating on what they are doing, couldnt give a fiddlers whether they like it or not!

Sparks

No, pump shotguns aren't on the restricted list, so long as their magazine capacity isn't more than 3 rounds, and they don't have a pistol grip or a telescopic/folding/removable stock, and they are over 24" long.

gameshotpro

My gun has ejectors. I just keep my hand over the chamber and stop the shells from flying around.

hk

Sparks wrote: »

No, pump shotguns aren't on the restricted list, so long as their magazine capacity isn't more than 3 rounds, and they don't have a pistol grip or a telescopic/folding/removable stock, and they are over 24" long.

Thanks, that would be why it was in my head, my one falls within some of those parameters so it is on the restricted list.