Dublin Bus "extends" 45 to Merrion Square

dmeehan

http://www.braypeople.ie/news/dublin-bus-extends-45-route-to-merrion-square-1804717.html

DUBLIN BUS have buckled under widespread pressure and extended the 45 route from Ballsbridge to Merrion Square at Green's Bus Stop. They also plan to start a new 146 bus route in Bray serving a circuit of the town, pending a licence for the service.

The company announced major cuts to the 45 route last April, alongside news that the bus would only travel as far as Ballsbridge rather than Eden Quay.

A month later the routes serving the seafront were cut to widespread dismay.

Cllr. John Brady revealed that the operations department has reviewed the new route and literally met customers half way by going as far as Green's – which is just on the doorstep of Grafton Street. He said that the changes will be made with immediate effect.

The planned 146 route in Bray is expected to start at Palermo, go to the Dart, the seafront and Putland Road, followed by Boghall Road, Springfield Cemetery, Vevay Road and the Main Street before going back to Palermo.

It is not planned to extend the service to the Southern Cross at this point.

For more information go to www.dublinbus.ie

bearded1

More importantly: Look at the number of departures

Ballsbridge Terminus Timetable
From Bray
MF----Sa----Su
39----35----24
To Bray
MF----Sa----Su
40----35----23

Merrion Terminus Timetable
From Bray
MF----Sa----Su
25----22----17
From Bray
MF----Sa----Su
25----22----18

That's quite a trade off for going a few minutes extra down the road...
It's essentially a further cutback in thinly veiled disguise.

KC61

bearded1 wrote: »

More importantly: Look at the number of departures

Ballsbridge Terminus Timetable
From Bray
MF----Sa----Su
39----35----24
To Bray
MF----Sa----Su
40----35----23

Merrion Terminus Timetable
From Bray
MF----Sa----Su
25----22----17
From Bray
MF----Sa----Su
25----22----18

That's quite a trade off for going a few minutes extra down the road...
It's essentially a further cutback in thinly veiled disguise.

By extending the route, the running time has to increase. Given that there is a finite number of buses/drivers available, it's inevitable that the number of departures will fall.

Alun

bearded1 wrote: »

More importantly: Look at the number of departures

Ballsbridge Terminus Timetable
From Bray
MF----Sa----Su
39----35----24
To Bray
MF----Sa----Su
40----35----23

Merrion Terminus Timetable
From Bray
MF----Sa----Su
25----22----17
From Bray
MF----Sa----Su
25----22----18

That's quite a trade off for going a few minutes extra down the road...
It's essentially a further cutback in thinly veiled disguise.

What was the frequency when it went to Eden Quay?

honru

Alun wrote: »

What was the frequency when it went to Eden Quay?

It was around double the amount of this new timetable. I'm glad to see it extended to town even if the terminus is not the O'Connell Street area, but that's a huge cutback from what it was originally.

bearded1

KC61 wrote: »

By extending the route, the running time has to increase. Given that there is a finite number of buses/drivers available, it's inevitable that the number of departures will fall.

Of course a drop in departures is to be expected. Would you not agree that the size of the drop is excessive?

Going on the (dodgy) stage system the journey is now under one tenth (3 stages) longer.
However M-F the number of departures has dropped by over a third.

And there is no mention of this reduction in the press release.

the groutch

I know they need to make cutbacks, but cutting such a vital bus route from 55 buses a day to 25 is ludicrous

I'm tempted to completely boycott Dublin Bus I'm so angry :mad:

AlekSmart

know they need to make cutbacks, but cutting such a vital bus route from 55 buses a day to 25 is ludicrous

Quite !

The 45 débacle is a prime example of Detached Management Style at its most defined.

Word on the street is that a senior Head Office figure has had the 45 in his sights for some time now as a signature route for Cutbacks.

Extending the 4 to Cornelscourt and further reducing the 7 is all part of this meisterplan.
The initial proposal for the 45 was to terminate at Blackrock,but Union pressure succeeded in extending that to Ballsbridge.

What occurred next was pure farce as it transpired that the modern generation of Buses was unable to make the right-turn into Shelbourne Road without compromising the safety zone of passing traffic.

It seems that a member of the Gardai took exception to the positioning of Buses during this manouvere and very forcibly intervened to have it stopped

Now the sucker punch here is that Dublin Bus has a senior executive who`s brief is to liase with ALL the relevant Local and National Authorities in terms of route alignment and street layout etc.....Presumably the fellow was away during the 45`s hurried deconstruction

Anyway what we now have is largely nonsensical as the 45 minute gap largely renders the route unviable in the extreme.
Recession or not,I believe there is a market for swift,reliable and frequent Public Bus services which is something that Dublin Bus appear under orders to ignore!

KC61

bearded1 wrote: »

Of course a drop in departures is to be expected. Would you not agree that the size of the drop is excessive?

Going on the (dodgy) stage system the journey is now under one tenth (3 stages) longer.
However M-F the number of departures has dropped by over a third.

And there is no mention of this reduction in the press release.

The running time has increased by at approximately 15 minutes in each direction to 1 hour 15 minutes (off-peak). That means that each bus loses at least 30 minutes per round trip.

Given that the number of buses available to operate the route is fixed then it is inevitable that the number of journeys will drop.

I don't think that the drop is excessive when put into context. This route has a wide number of high frequency routes operating alongside or parallel to it. From Bray to Cornelscourt, the route is mirrored by the 145, and from Blackrock to the city it is mirrored by the 4 and 7. People wishing to go to town from Deansgrange have the 46A which is a short walk away. Also remember that people from the Bray and Shankill areas also have the DART. It is hardly as if there are no alternatives for most journeys.

the groutch wrote: »

I know they need to make cutbacks, but cutting such a vital bus route from 55 buses a day to 25 is ludicrous

I'm tempted to completely boycott Dublin Bus I'm so angry :mad:

Why is it so vital, considering that while it operated with 55 journeys both the 145 and 4/4A were introduced which both have significantly more trips?

AlekSmart wrote: »

What occurred next was pure farce as it transpired that the modern generation of Buses was unable to make the right-turn into Shelbourne Road without compromising the safety zone of passing traffic.

It seems that a member of the Gardai took exception to the positioning of Buses during this manouvere and very forcibly intervened to have it stopped

Now the sucker punch here is that Dublin Bus has a senior executive who`s brief is to liase with ALL the relevant Local and National Authorities in terms of route alignment and street layout etc.....Presumably the fellow was away during the 45`s hurried deconstruction

Surely this is a serious flaw in the design of a major road? I would have thought that provision for buses/coaches/trucks turning at major junctions should be standard???

MiniD

KC61 wrote: »

The running time has increased by at approximately 15 minutes in each direction to 1 hour 15 minutes (off-peak). That means that each bus loses at least 30 minutes per round trip.

15 minutes seems very excessive. I used this service for years and it normally takes about 5 minutes (off peak) to run between Northumberland Road and Merrion Square. It's 6 stops.

KC61

MiniD wrote: »

15 minutes seems very excessive. I used this service for years and it normally takes about 5 minutes (off peak) to run between Northumberland Road and Merrion Square. It's 6 stops.

Well there were problems with the running time on the new service (too short), as indeed there were with the old timetable (and very serious ones at that) and it has been given some extra time to make the service far more reliable.

1 hour 15 minutes from Merrion Square to Oldcourt is about right (it was 55/60 minutes to/from Ballsbridge).

Victor

MiniD wrote: »

15 minutes seems very excessive. I used this service for years and it normally takes about 5 minutes (off peak) to run between Northumberland Road and Merrion Square. It's 6 stops.

And from Merrion Square to Lincoln Place and back?

It would be much better if these buses used Merrion Square clockwise as a terminus instead of Claare Street / Lincoln Place.

antoinolachtnai

What or who is this bus for, exactly? I am obviously missing something very obvious. What purpose does this bus serve that distinguishes it from the other routes and nearby suburban rail line?

MiniD

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

What or who is this bus for, exactly? I am obviously missing something very obvious. What purpose does this bus serve that distinguishes it from the other routes and nearby suburban rail line?

The 45 links areas like Shankill, Cabinteely and Deansgrange to Ballsbridge and Merrion Square. It does not run alongside the DART.

Victor

It provides a direct, no change, link from Deansgrange Road and Clonkeen Road to the city centre.

the groutch

just to add to this, twice in the last week i've seen 3 46a's back to back, and this is a regular occurance

the 46a has 142 runnings a day, and is supplemented by 145, 746, 84x, 46c/d/e, etc etc

i'm sure a 10% cut on the 46a route would not have half the effect that the new cuts on the 45 would

KC61

MiniD wrote: »

The 45 links areas like Shankill, Cabinteely and Deansgrange to Ballsbridge and Merrion Square. It does not run alongside the DART.

Victor wrote: »

It provides a direct, no change, link from Deansgrange Road and Clonkeen Road to the city centre.

the groutch wrote: »

just to add to this, twice in the last week i've seen 3 46a's back to back, and this is a regular occurance

the 46a has 142 runnings a day, and is supplemented by 145, 746, 84x, 46c/d/e, etc etc

i'm sure a 10% cut on the 46a route would not have half the effect that the new cuts on the 45 would

I think that there does need to be some common sense applied here.

The 45 had no reduction in service despite the introduction of the 145 some years back - the 145 took over the role as the primary route from the city to Cabinteely, Loughlinstown, Shankill, and Bray.

Similarly the 4 and 4A were introduced linking Blackrock (and Stradbrook) with the city along the Rock Road. Again no adjustment was made for this in the 45 timetable.

I really cannot believe that there are that many passengers that would need the 45 that the proposed level of service would not cope with? Deansgrange area already has the 46A, 46D to/from the city (note the 46D serves Clonkeen Road), while Bray, Shankill, Loughlinstown and Cornelscourt all have the 145. There are three buses within 30 minutes of one another from Bray in the morning peak.

The specific journey to Blackrock or points to Ballsbridge from Bray or Shankill is pretty much covered by DART, and the 84 also goes to Ballsbridge.

You are not looking at huge numbers here given the alternatives that are in place - yes there would be schoolchildren going to the various schools in the Blackrock area, but again I suspect that the new schedule would cope with the demand.

Cookie_Monster

KC61 wrote: »

I think that there does need to be some common sense applied here.

The 45 had no reduction in service despite the introduction of the 145 some years back - the 145 took over the role as the primary route from the city to Cabinteely, Loughlinstown, Shankill, and Bray.

Similarly the 4 and 4A were introduced linking Blackrock (and Stradbrook) with the city along the Rock Road. Again no adjustment was made for this in the 45 timetable.

I really cannot believe that there are that many passengers that would need the 45 that the proposed level of service would not cope with? Deansgrange area already has the 46A, 46D to/from the city (note the 46D serves Clonkeen Road), while Bray, Shankill, Loughlinstown and Cornelscourt all have the 145. There are three buses within 30 minutes of one another from Bray in the morning peak.

The specific journey to Blackrock or points to Ballsbridge from Bray or Shankill is pretty much covered by DART, and the 84 also goes to Ballsbridge.

You are not looking at huge numbers here given the alternatives that are in place - yes there would be schoolchildren going to the various schools in the Blackrock area, but again I suspect that the new schedule would cope with the demand.

After considering ^this^ I'm inclined to think that this bus could be phased out altogether on 2 provisions. The busses "saved" here should be put onto surrounding routes to augment them ie 4/a, 7/b, 145, 84. And the 4 should be extened to Cornelscourt along Clonkeen road to fully close the gap. This leave Deansgrange to Bray as the only missing link but I doubt the demand here would be great anyway and would only require a short walk to the 84/145

KC61

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

After considering ^this^ I'm inclined to think that this bus could be phased out altogether on 2 provisions. The busses "saved" here should be put onto surrounding routes to augment them ie 4/a, 7/b, 145, 84. And the 4 should be extened to Cornelscourt along Clonkeen road to fully close the gap. This leave Deansgrange to Bray as the only missing link but I doubt the demand here would be great anyway and would only require a short walk to the 84/145

I would think that there is still a need for a 45 bus, to cover for schools and local traffic. It also services an area of Bray that no other route services (Oldcourt). There would be enough demand to cover the schedule introduced I would think.

loyatemu

the 84 and the 45 are both relics and could probably both be dropped (the 84 should become a higher frequency Kilcoole-Bray local service). As KC61 has pointed out, better and more frequent service have superceded them. Everytime there's a minor change to a bus route there's naturally an outcry from the people using it, but that doesn't necessarily mean the change is not warranted.

Cookie_Monster

KC61 wrote: »

It also services an area of Bray that no other route services (Oldcourt). There would be enough demand to cover the schedule introduced I would think.

The planned 146 could cover this

KC61

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The planned 146 could cover this

True, but I do still think that there is a market for the 45 route, albeit at the newly reduced frequency. There are significant numbers of schoolchildren using it every day also.

Added to that there is no guarantee that the 146 will get licensed anytime soon given the idiosyncracies of licensing in the past!!!

oceanclub

I used to use the 45 to get to Dean's Grange, but checking the Sunday timetables, it's been gutter - there's only a single trip on a Sunday afternoon. Does anyone know any other public transport that goes from town to near the cemetary?

Thanks,

P.

bazzer

oceanclub wrote: »

I used to use the 45 to get to Dean's Grange, but checking the Sunday timetables, it's been gutter - there's only a single trip on a Sunday afternoon. Does anyone know any other public transport that goes from town to near the cemetary?

Thanks,

P.

46A to Kill Lane, or the 4A to Stradbrook will leave you nearby.

KC61

oceanclub wrote: »

I used to use the 45 to get to Dean's Grange, but checking the Sunday timetables, it's been gutter - there's only a single trip on a Sunday afternoon. Does anyone know any other public transport that goes from town to near the cemetary?

Thanks,

P.

There's an hourly service on the 45 on Sunday afternoons - certainly more than a single trip.

angel01

the groutch wrote: »

just to add to this, twice in the last week i've seen 3 46a's back to back, and this is a regular occurance

the 46a has 142 runnings a day, and is supplemented by 145, 746, 84x, 46c/d/e, etc etc

i'm sure a 10% cut on the 46a route would not have half the effect that the new cuts on the 45 would

Honestly are you surprised? I doubt a cut would ever happen...:rolleyes:

steve-o

oceanclub wrote: »

there's only a single trip on a Sunday afternoon.

They changed the layout of the timetables a while back - you need to read across instead of down. It's really easy to misread it.