No dole if you're out of the country more than a year!

babaloushka

A friend of mine has just been told today that she will not get any benefits as she has been out of Ireland for more than a year - a new directive brought in on the 15th June! She had a few jobs in NI prior to leaving (living in border area) and then moved to rented accommodation for a year before going to Australia to look for work. She was therefore technically out of the country for about 18 months, with a few weeks at home (Donegal) that doesn't seem to count. Her application for benefits was made on the 28th May - before this mysterious new directive came in - but that apparantly doesn't matter.
Can this be right? She's an Irish citizen, born and brought up here - where is she supposed to go? She is back at home now with no money and cadging off everyone to keep going. Does anyone know anything about this directive? The CWO said that there's nothing he can do, although he intends to bring it up with his superiors asap as a number of his cases are being unfairly penalised by this.

IT Loser

babaloushka wrote: »

A friend of mine has just been told today that she will not get any benefits as she has been out of Ireland for more than a year - a new directive brought in on the 15th June! She had a few jobs in NI prior to leaving (living in border area) and then moved to rented accommodation for a year before going to Australia to look for work. She was therefore technically out of the country for about 18 months, with a few weeks at home (Donegal) that doesn't seem to count. Her application for benefits was made on the 28th May - before this mysterious new directive came in - but that apparantly doesn't matter.
Can this be right? She's an Irish citizen, born and brought up here - where is she supposed to go? She is back at home now with no money and cadging off everyone to keep going. Does anyone know anything about this directive? The CWO said that there's nothing he can do, although he intends to bring it up with his superiors asap as a number of his cases are being unfairly penalised by this.

Thats not true.

There is no prospect maybe of JS Benefit if you have been out of the country for more than 1 year.

There is no prospect of JS Allowance if you cannot prove that you are "Habitually Resident" here, in the ROI.

Can your friend prove that she is "Habitually Resident"...that is to say, lives in Ireland only?

Mrs OBumble

That sounds odd: she doesn't have habitual residency the usual way (through having lived here for the last two years), but would be able to get it through signing a declaration that she has no ties to anywhere else.

Perhaps they've changed the conditions attached to the declaration. I guess this would be something that they can do at any time ...

Suspect there's not a lot she can do until she's formally turned down for JA by Welfare: she must be able to appeal at that point. ( The CWO isn't the one who's determining eligibility or not. Actually, that may be influencing things - the CWO's may have been told to slow down the amount of money that they're advancing.)

babaloushka

IT Loser wrote: »

Thats not true.

There is no prospect maybe of JS Benefit if you have been out of the country for more than 1 year.

There is no prospect of JS Allowance if you cannot prove that you are "Habitually Resident" here, in the ROI.

Can your friend prove that she is "Habitually Resident"...that is to say, lives in Ireland only?

She was shown the new directive by the CWO today because she was trying to find out why no one had come to check on her residence and she was not getting any information from the dole office, nor any kind of emergency payment since she applied on the 28th May. Two other people she knows with almost identical situations (one of whom went to Australia with her) lied on their forms and said they had never lived in NI and they got the dole within a week.
How does she prove she is habitually resident? This is her home county and she only went away to get work - to NI first and then to Australia. She was in rented accommodation at all times. She has not been formally told that her application is rejected, but the CWO says that that's the reason and that it's all been tightened up since 15th June.

babaloushka

JustMary wrote: »

That sounds odd: she doesn't have habitual residency the usual way (through having lived here for the last two years), but would be able to get it through signing a declaration that she has no ties to anywhere else.

Perhaps they've changed the conditions attached to the declaration. I guess this would be something that they can do at any time ...

Suspect there's not a lot she can do until she's formally turned down for JA by Welfare: she must be able to appeal at that point. ( The CWO isn't the one who's determining eligibility or not. Actually, that may be influencing things - the CWO's may have been told to slow down the amount of money that they're advancing.)

I think the CWO implied that they've been told to slow down and hang back with anyone who may be a 'dole tourist', but it hardly applies here. This girl also has an entitlement to stamps/benefits (?) from NI from her work there and has submitted the documentation through the local SW office, but I believe that is an even longer process. As far as I understand from her, this means that her claim will not actually cost this state anything? What is royally p*ssing her (and me) off is that it was her honesty that caught her out and she now has to watch others 'benefit' from withholding the truth.

sunnyside

That's not fair, this new directive must be to stop non-nationals claiming dole but the "welfare tourists" they are targeting probably did live here while there were jobs so will be able to continue to claim.

They should hold people's passports to make sure they stay in the country but I doubt that could ever happen.

Moonbeam

Has she ever paid stamps in the ROI?

nxbyveromdwjpg

I was in Australia for 20 months, arrived back here on the 16th of June and signed on in Nutgrove on the 22nd.

I collect from the post office on the 15th of July, backdated to 16th of June when I entered the country.

No problem, no complications.

Was she working here before she left?

IT Loser

nm wrote: »

I was in Australia for 20 months, arrived back here on the 16th of June and signed on in Nutgrove on the 22nd.

I collect from the post office on the 15th of July, backdated to 16th of June when I entered the country.

No problem, no complications.

Was she working here before she left?

Benefit or Allowance?

babaloushka

Moonbeam wrote: »

Has she ever paid stamps in the ROI?

Yes, she had a part-time temporary job here for about a year, but that was about 3 years ago. Most of her work has been across the border (15 miles from her home) - there's wasn't much around here then and there's even less now She moved into rented accommodation to avoid the travel issues - no public transport within 3 miles of her door. BTW, she didn't get any work in Australia and has taken only debt back with her.

yabadabado

babaloushka wrote: »

Yes, she had a part-time temporary job here for about a year, but that was about 3 years ago. Most of her work has been across the border (15 miles from her home) - there's wasn't much around here then and there's even less now She moved into rented accommodation to avoid the travel issues - no public transport within 3 miles of her door. BTW, she didn't get any work in Australia and has taken only debt back with her.

should she not be claiming welfare from northern ireland if she last worked there?

babaloushka

yabadabado wrote: »

should she not be claiming welfare from northern ireland if she last worked there?

She lives here in ROI at her family's home and she can't claim benefit from NI as a result. Short of going on the streets in NI as a homeless person, she has to live where her family can support her. Her stamps, however, do count (as far as she knows) but she has to make the claim via the social welfare here and she's done that through the proper channels. This could take months though and she was advised (by SW) to apply for the JSA in the meantime.
I think now that the CWO must be wrong and that she will eventually get the payment she's entitled to, but it looks as if she'll have to fight for it. I suspect that a variety of interpretations of this new directive could make life very difficult for Irish people returning from abroad.

shindig-jp

From what I read and make out here the OP has the story wrong ... Remember we are talking about the OP's Friend so the story has no weight.

babaloushka

shindig-jp wrote: »

From what I read and make out here the OP has the story wrong ... Remember we are talking about the OP's Friend so the story has no weight.

Excuse me! I have the 'story' exactly right as it was experienced by this person and your contention that it has 'no weight' is insulting and a non sequitar :mad:

htimsydna

I'm of the same opinion with regard to "no weight story" The new directive you talk of is nowhere to be found in print so it all boils down to hearsay from the CWO, your friend and then of course yourself.

nxbyveromdwjpg

IT Loser wrote: »

Benefit or Allowance?

Benefit

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

shindig-jp wrote: »

From what I read and make out here the OP has the story wrong ... Remember we are talking about the OP's Friend so the story has no weight.

htimsydna wrote: »

I'm of the same opinion with regard to "no weight story" The new directive you talk of is nowhere to be found in print so it all boils down to hearsay from the CWO, your friend and then of course yourself.

This isn't an interrogation and there is no reason to doubt the OP if he/she says that something is the case, unless you have firm support that it is wrong.

shoegirl

babaloushka wrote: »

A friend of mine has just been told today that she will not get any benefits as she has been out of Ireland for more than a year - a new directive brought in on the 15th June!

I suspect this is because her social security stamps from Australia cannot be transferred here - although if she wasn't working of course she probably had no stamps paid? Its probably designed to stop welfare tourism to what is perceived to be the most generous welfare system in the developed world. I know when I returned from the UK I had to write to an office giving a full list of everywhere I worked in the UK and my national insurance number because they couldn't do it electronically (this was mid 2002) and it was a sick benefits claim. Correct about the welfare bums - I know a fair few people who got wind that Ireland was a very generous place for welfare around 2001/02 and came back home to claim it.

MikeC101

Well a direct experience here - I was told as I was out of the country for the last two years I would not be eligible for jobseekers benefit, despite having paid taxes for the years before I left Ireland. I'm only eligible for jobseekers allowance.

Though that was two months ago and I've heard nothing back since, and phone calls to the social welfare office are never answered (not once, out of all the times I've called has the call been answered / gone to an answering maching, rings out every time).

IT Loser

nm wrote: »

Benefit

Just apply for allowance and make sure you satisfy the HR {Hab Rez} rule.

Mrs OBumble

MikeC101 wrote: »

Well a direct experience here - I was told as I was out of the country for the last two years I would not be eligible for jobseekers benefit, despite having paid taxes for the years before I left Ireland. I'm only eligible for jobseekers allowance.

Re JB, the problem is that you don't have any PRSI credits for the relevant tax year, rather than that you were out of the country.

(The taxes you paid for years before you left Ireland are irrelevant. Yes this is unfair. Complain to your TD.)

If you can get habitual residence via one of the other methods (declaration, or maybe even something else if you were out on a WHV... I'm not 100% sure), then yes, you may well be eligible for jobseeker's allowance, which is means tested.

Rumour has it that some welfare offices no longer answer their phones. Visit in person.

Xiney

This thread has too much hearsay so I'm locking it - it's contributing to myths about the social welfare system. I know of no new directives that came into effect on 15 June.